Author Topic: Danny's Obsession with the Combo Guard  (Read 1521 times)

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Danny's Obsession with the Combo Guard
« on: February 22, 2013, 11:22:53 AM »

Offline quidinqui33

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Does anyone have any thoughts on Danny's obsession with combo guards.  Is it because he was basically one himself?

He has drafted a ton of them: delonte, oriene green, bradley, gabe pruit, etc (I know I am forgetting some). and he continues to bring them in: terry, barbosa, williams, nate (even though he was the size of a PG), and crawford.

We've had a need for a legit back up PG and Center for years now and even after rondo and sully went down, Ainge seemed more effected by the barbosa injury and clearly has put a priority in replacing him rather than the other two!?!

I've always liked danny as a GM and still do, but I do see this as his one consistent flaw in personnel decisions.  The obsession with the Combo guard and not enough importance on a traditional backup point and solid big men.

Re: Danny's Obsession with the Combo Guard
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2013, 11:26:45 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Does anyone have any thoughts on Danny's obsession with combo guards.  Is it because he was basically one himself?
Ainge typically drafts the best talent available. Players without clearly defined NBA position tend to slip in the draft and be available in spots where players with similar talent are already off the board.

Also, half of the players on your list aren't really combo guards.
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Re: Danny's Obsession with the Combo Guard
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2013, 11:28:03 AM »

Offline Kane3387

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He saw how the play of a pure PG caused this team to slow its pace too much. He likes the way the team is playing without a pure PG. Grab a rebound and put let to a ball handler. Doesn't matter if its Pierce, Green, or a guard. Just get the ball out and go. I think he wants to stick with that formula with this group because it's resulted in the most success we have seen all year.

The pace was much slower when the team got the ball and instantly said "where's Rondo? he's the pg and needs to bring it up."


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Re: Danny's Obsession with the Combo Guard
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2013, 11:28:57 AM »

Offline CelticG1

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He was also obssesed with big men when he signed Shaq, JO, Semih while Perk was recovering.

Re: Danny's Obsession with the Combo Guard
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2013, 11:30:17 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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Does anyone have any thoughts on Danny's obsession with combo guards.  Is it because he was basically one himself?
Ainge typically drafts the best talent available. Players without clearly defined NBA position tend to slip in the draft and be available in spots where players with similar talent are already off the board.

Also, half of the players on your list aren't really combo guards.

Good points here.

And the OP brings big men into this, and that's a separate issue.  In the market now, you pay a premium for a 7' with any real skill or ability and that's at least 10 million.  So if you can't afford that, you get undersized players or you try to draft the bigs and let them develop on rookie contracts and maybe extend them for a reasonable price before they hit that 10 mill plus price.  It's exactly what happened with Perk and it's why we drafted Melo.
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Re: Danny's Obsession with the Combo Guard
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2013, 11:36:05 AM »

Offline quidinqui33

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Does anyone have any thoughts on Danny's obsession with combo guards.  Is it because he was basically one himself?
Ainge typically drafts the best talent available. Players without clearly defined NBA position tend to slip in the draft and be available in spots where players with similar talent are already off the board.

Also, half of the players on your list aren't really combo guards.

I guess what I mean by combo guard is undersized two guards (6'2" to 6'4" range) who are not particularly playmakers.

I completely understand the best available approach in the draft and it has paid off with guys like bradley and delonte, but getting those types of players seems to be a consistent thing with him even with trades and free agent pickups.

I do know danny likes to accrue assets and perhaps that is the most abundant type of player available that actually have value down the road.


Re: Danny's Obsession with the Combo Guard
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2013, 11:40:30 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Does anyone have any thoughts on Danny's obsession with combo guards.  Is it because he was basically one himself?

He has drafted a ton of them: delonte, oriene green, bradley, gabe pruit, etc (I know I am forgetting some). and he continues to bring them in: terry, barbosa, williams, nate (even though he was the size of a PG), and crawford.

We've had a need for a legit back up PG and Center for years now and even after rondo and sully went down, Ainge seemed more effected by the barbosa injury and clearly has put a priority in replacing him rather than the other two!?!

I've always liked danny as a GM and still do, but I do see this as his one consistent flaw in personnel decisions.  The obsession with the Combo guard and not enough importance on a traditional backup point and solid big men.

  All of the draft picks were in the 20s or later. It's not like he's passing over starting level point guards to get combo guards. Not to mention you're ignoring the large number of pgs that he's brought in, players like Rondo, Banks, Payton, James, Telfair, Cassell, Marbury and probably some that I'm forgetting.

Re: Danny's Obsession with the Combo Guard
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2013, 11:45:18 AM »

Offline Chris

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Undersized SGs are the same as undersized PFs.  They end up being collected by teams that are drafting late, or who don't have a ton of assets to give up, because the "true" PGs and PFs who actually are good at playing basketball are never available that late, or that cheap.

So, it comes down to the choice between someone who is prototypical size or style, but is a bad basketball player, versus someone who knows how to play basketball, but doesn't fit the prototype as well.  And Danny is of the belief that you are always better off with the basketball player, and figure out how to make it work.   

Re: Danny's Obsession with the Combo Guard
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2013, 11:47:17 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Rajon Rondo was a young point guard who would play 40mpg in the playoffs.  Ainge seemed to think it was a waste of a roster spot to have a backup who could only play PG, an attitude shared by some posters in this forum.  I disagreed, thinking that the Celtics should get a dedicated back-up PG who is not a combo guard and seek to find a wing who can credibly defend both SG and SF while also being able to hit an occasional three.

If you were to split the five positions between three key backups, I would prefer PG/SG-SF/PF-C to PG-SG/SF-PF/C.  I think Ainge would prefer the second configuration.  Maybe Rondo's injury will change his mind about how desirable a "pure" PG off the bench is.
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Re: Danny's Obsession with the Combo Guard
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2013, 11:54:45 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Undersized SGs are the same as undersized PFs.  They end up being collected by teams that are drafting late, or who don't have a ton of assets to give up, because the "true" PGs and PFs who actually are good at playing basketball are never available that late, or that cheap.

So, it comes down to the choice between someone who is prototypical size or style, but is a bad basketball player, versus someone who knows how to play basketball, but doesn't fit the prototype as well.  And Danny is of the belief that you are always better off with the basketball player, and figure out how to make it work.

One mistake I think GMs sometimes make is to see too much of a dependency between being a good basketball player and being athletic.  I think Ainge sometimes probably undervalues hard working, intelligent players who have the prototypical size but have, at best, average athleticism that limits their upside.  Specifically, I wonder if a player like Jon Leuer was ever on Ainge's radar in 2011, when his reported interest list was Reggie Jackson, JaJuan Johnson, and Jimmy Butler.
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Re: Danny's Obsession with the Combo Guard
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2013, 11:59:34 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think it's more like the league's obsession with combo guards.

The vast majority of guards in the league now are combo guards.  Then you have a number of bigger SG's who are really more like undersized small forwards.  Very, very few pure point guards left these days.

So it makes more sense to acquire more talented combo guards and cobble together an offense than to sign a much less talented player who can pass and run an offense.
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Re: Danny's Obsession with the Combo Guard
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2013, 12:17:54 PM »

Online Who

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Late draft picks leads to lesser talented players or tweeners.

Re: Danny's Obsession with the Combo Guard
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2013, 01:03:31 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Late draft picks leads to lesser talented players or tweeners.

Or players with lots of physical talent but no skills.  e.g. Fab Melo.
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Re: Danny's Obsession with the Combo Guard
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2013, 01:13:29 PM »

Offline eugen

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Sending out Barbosa is a terrible mistake, the same as not signing Pietrus

Re: Danny's Obsession with the Combo Guard
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2013, 01:46:08 PM »

Offline vinnie

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He saw how the play of a pure PG caused this team to slow its pace too much. He likes the way the team is playing without a pure PG. Grab a rebound and put let to a ball handler. Doesn't matter if its Pierce, Green, or a guard. Just get the ball out and go. I think he wants to stick with that formula with this group because it's resulted in the most success we have seen all year.

The pace was much slower when the team got the ball and instantly said "where's Rondo? he's the pg and needs to bring it up."

8-3 without Rondo and 2 straight losses. The offense did not look good either against Denver or the Lakers. If they lose the rest of the games on this trip, or win only one, will the Rondo hate (not particularly from you) stop?