Author Topic: Totally and utterly disappointed  (Read 5294 times)

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Online Moranis

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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #75 on: February 22, 2013, 04:32:00 PM »
It's not so much that I disagree with Moranis' statement as I don't see an immediate or short-term alternative where it isn't also true.  Once Rondo went down there was no way to make this roster a legitimate contender this year without assuming some other GMs would be willing to make some horribly dumb decisions.  Once Sully and Barbosa went down there's no way I can see to even make it a fringe contender without assuming other GMs were functionally braindead and cripplingly afraid of success. 

So what was the alternative?  Blow it up and hit bottom?  KG unsurprisingly refused to be traded and nobody wanted to give us any kind of value for Pierce.  Rondo appears to still not be able to fetch any kind of game-changer.  And there was barely a peep of interest in our other long-term medium-dollar guys.  So there's no viable option in that direction either.

It's always easy to criticize management for not making vague, ill-defined deals that you imagine were available, and becomes much more difficult as you ground things more in the specific realities of the league. 

Just as it's always easy to argue against other positions when you get to slap whatever silly stereotype you find the most convenient, and much more difficult when you deign to ask people what they think instead of telling them.
I believe if it was known that Rondo was actually on the block, then Boston could have gotten some real players that would have helped this year.  Now granted those players wouldn't be healthy Rondo value, but I think there were moves there.  Millsap and Burks was probably available for Rondo (as an example).  Smith for Rondo was probably available.  And sure Smith and Millsap were expiring contracts, but those are the kind of moves that were there.  P. Gasol might very well have been available as well.  Not sure those moves would have put us over the top, but it certainly would have made a playoff series a lot more interesting.  I'd of much rather gone that route because once PP and KG retire (which may very well be this summer), the rest of this team is going to be very very mediocre with no real hope of coming out of it at long as Rondo is on the roster.

I was actually on the record that I didn't want Jordan in a blow up trade, but I think a third team could have been found for him to go while Boston picked something else up of value.  I also think there were Pierce trades out there that weren't total crap like what NJ offered.  Again I don't think many teams called with packages because it seemed pretty apparent Boston wasn't really looking to move him. 
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Offline Jon

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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #76 on: February 22, 2013, 04:33:14 PM »
The real problem is the NBA salary structure.  In baseball, you deal aging vets for cost controlled minor leaguers making 1/10 (or less) than what the vets were making.  In football, you can totally revamp your team by outright cutting players. 

With all of these trades, we would have been taking back a lot of salary on non-star player OR putting ourselves (in the case of someone like Bledsoe) in a position in a year where we'd either have to let him walk for nothing or commit big bucks to him that he might not be worth. 

So I don't blame Danny for not blowing it up.  How much help it would have done is highly debatable.   

Offline LarBrd33

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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #77 on: February 22, 2013, 05:05:37 PM »
I have to giggle at threads like this, because I felt this exact same way last year after the deadline.  You guys are a year late.  Here's my reaction in March 2012 after we did nothing:

Quote
I'm disgusted. Completely disgusted.  This season is a waste of my time and I will not be watching any of the remaining games.  If they don't care to compete why should I bother watching?

Time to start the "Fire Danny Ainge" bandwagon.  This is a disgrace. 

... Ok in reality I guess they are putting all of their hope in buyout deals.  It's Chris Kaman or bust... kinda like how last year it was Shaq or bust.  That worked out pretty well...

Quote
Bottom line... Boston is a team that CAN NOT compete for a title as currently constructed.  There is very little reason to believe we will have a better shot next year (unless you're taking crazy pills)...

So this deadline was an opportunity to either improve this team in the short-term (trying to get closer to contending) or long-term (setting us up with assets to rebuild). 

Instead we did nothing.  That's disappointing.  From Boston's perspective they probably just figure they are better off hoodwinking fans into buying tickets on the false hope of a final run by the "big 3"... they will still make $$$ regardless.  It's just very disappointing as a serious fan of this organization to see how deeply flawed our roster is, how very little assets we hold for the future... and recognizing that nothing positive is coming from this wasted season.

Quote
it's gonna be a short run.  More like a brisk jog to the front porch to pick up your news paper.

Failure.  Between this and relying on Shaq for our title hopes last year... I've lost a lot of faith in Danny Ainge. 

Quote
we get owned in the first round.

Way to go.  I'm really disappointed.  You either improve for now or improve for the future.  Standing pat is moronic.

Quote
thank god we preserve our 25 mil in cap space... just enough to bring back Bass, KG, Ray and Jeff Green (best case scenario).

I don't know what I'd do if my CEltics weren't stuck as a 35-45 win team for the foreseeable future. 

Quote
I'll tune in for the playoffs ... mainly to see how Avery Bradley does playing center as we get swept by the Bulls.  It'll be really fun seeing NOah's hair flopping all around and him getting payback for those losses to KG... as we end this era on a low note with the Bulls bigs eating us alive inside.  Yippie.

All so we could preserve just enough cap space to bring the entire gang back next year for the same result. 

... Welcome to my nightmare from a year ago.  For what it's worth, Boston made a nice little run with KG at center.  They lucked out in facing Atlanta (without Horford for most of it) in the 1st round.  Then by a miracle of god, we got the 8th seed 76ers in Round 2 instead of the Bulls... who still managed to take us to 7 games.  And then of course we gave Miami a scare until Bosh came back and LeBron took over.

So I can't be mad.  I let out my temper tantrum last year.  Now i'll just hope for the best.   


Online BballTim

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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #78 on: February 22, 2013, 07:01:17 PM »
I have to giggle at threads like this, because I felt this exact same way last year after the deadline.  You guys are a year late.  Here's my reaction in March 2012 after we did nothing:

Quote
I'm disgusted. Completely disgusted.  This season is a waste of my time and I will not be watching any of the remaining games.  If they don't care to compete why should I bother watching?

Time to start the "Fire Danny Ainge" bandwagon.  This is a disgrace. 

... Ok in reality I guess they are putting all of their hope in buyout deals.  It's Chris Kaman or bust... kinda like how last year it was Shaq or bust.  That worked out pretty well...

Quote
Bottom line... Boston is a team that CAN NOT compete for a title as currently constructed.  There is very little reason to believe we will have a better shot next year (unless you're taking crazy pills)...

So this deadline was an opportunity to either improve this team in the short-term (trying to get closer to contending) or long-term (setting us up with assets to rebuild). 

Instead we did nothing.  That's disappointing.  From Boston's perspective they probably just figure they are better off hoodwinking fans into buying tickets on the false hope of a final run by the "big 3"... they will still make $$$ regardless.  It's just very disappointing as a serious fan of this organization to see how deeply flawed our roster is, how very little assets we hold for the future... and recognizing that nothing positive is coming from this wasted season.

Quote
it's gonna be a short run.  More like a brisk jog to the front porch to pick up your news paper.

Failure.  Between this and relying on Shaq for our title hopes last year... I've lost a lot of faith in Danny Ainge. 

Quote
we get owned in the first round.

Way to go.  I'm really disappointed.  You either improve for now or improve for the future.  Standing pat is moronic.

Quote
thank god we preserve our 25 mil in cap space... just enough to bring back Bass, KG, Ray and Jeff Green (best case scenario).

I don't know what I'd do if my CEltics weren't stuck as a 35-45 win team for the foreseeable future. 

Quote
I'll tune in for the playoffs ... mainly to see how Avery Bradley does playing center as we get swept by the Bulls.  It'll be really fun seeing NOah's hair flopping all around and him getting payback for those losses to KG... as we end this era on a low note with the Bulls bigs eating us alive inside.  Yippie.

All so we could preserve just enough cap space to bring the entire gang back next year for the same result. 

... Welcome to my nightmare from a year ago.  For what it's worth, Boston made a nice little run with KG at center.  They lucked out in facing Atlanta (without Horford for most of it) in the 1st round.  Then by a miracle of god, we got the 8th seed 76ers in Round 2 instead of the Bulls... who still managed to take us to 7 games.  And then of course we gave Miami a scare until Bosh came back and LeBron took over.

So I can't be mad.  I let out my temper tantrum last year.  Now i'll just hope for the best.

  The Celts had as many health issues as anyone they faced last year and almost made it to the finals. Usually people only bring back their old posts if they were right about what they were saying.

Offline dlpin

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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #79 on: February 22, 2013, 07:42:30 PM »
I read these threads and I wonder if people see a different NBA than I do.

I look at all the contending teams, all the recent champions, and it is pretty clear to me what makes a team a contender. You either get one of the top picks in a draft (OKC with Durant and Westbrook, Spurs with Duncan, Clippers, etc), or you use cap space, expiring contracts, and cheap young potential all stars to get a superstar (Miami, us, Lakers, Clippers again).

None of the rumored trades would have done any of that. Deandre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe are nice little role players who will never be superstars, but who would take up quite a chunk of our salary, and the late 1st is not worth much. Same thing for Brooks, Humprhies and another late first. People talk of assets, but the assets have to be worth something. The right to pay 7 digit salaries to role players is not an asset.

The celtics' best rebuilding option is the same as it was: let PP and KG expire or retire, try to use the cap space to land some superstar, and if that doesn't work, use that cap space to generate more picks and trade exceptions.

Times like these that I appreciate that Ainge is the GM.

Online Moranis

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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #80 on: February 23, 2013, 09:39:28 AM »
I read these threads and I wonder if people see a different NBA than I do.

I look at all the contending teams, all the recent champions, and it is pretty clear to me what makes a team a contender. You either get one of the top picks in a draft (OKC with Durant and Westbrook, Spurs with Duncan, Clippers, etc), or you use cap space, expiring contracts, and cheap young potential all stars to get a superstar (Miami, us, Lakers, Clippers again).

None of the rumored trades would have done any of that. Deandre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe are nice little role players who will never be superstars, but who would take up quite a chunk of our salary, and the late 1st is not worth much. Same thing for Brooks, Humprhies and another late first. People talk of assets, but the assets have to be worth something. The right to pay 7 digit salaries to role players is not an asset.

The celtics' best rebuilding option is the same as it was: let PP and KG expire or retire, try to use the cap space to land some superstar, and if that doesn't work, use that cap space to generate more picks and trade exceptions.

Times like these that I appreciate that Ainge is the GM.
When Pierce and KG retire, Boston still won't have cap space for anything more than a MLE type player until 2015 without making major trades.  That strategy was a good one and one I wanted to do, but Ainge blew that ability with his signings this summer.  That is why he needed to make moves, because that was the only way he was going to clear the salary he would have needed to clear.
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Offline dark_lord

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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #81 on: February 23, 2013, 09:55:04 AM »
id rather watch mediocre to above average ball with vets than a team that stinks full of young guys with "upside".

people on boards like this always prefer potential and rebuilding, which i just dont understand. give me an aging pierce and kg over bledsoe, d jordan, etc any day of the week.

i feel sad for those fans who have the championship or nothing mentality. it is completely unrealistic lol


Online saltlover

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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #82 on: February 23, 2013, 10:05:29 AM »
I read these threads and I wonder if people see a different NBA than I do.

I look at all the contending teams, all the recent champions, and it is pretty clear to me what makes a team a contender. You either get one of the top picks in a draft (OKC with Durant and Westbrook, Spurs with Duncan, Clippers, etc), or you use cap space, expiring contracts, and cheap young potential all stars to get a superstar (Miami, us, Lakers, Clippers again).

None of the rumored trades would have done any of that. Deandre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe are nice little role players who will never be superstars, but who would take up quite a chunk of our salary, and the late 1st is not worth much. Same thing for Brooks, Humprhies and another late first. People talk of assets, but the assets have to be worth something. The right to pay 7 digit salaries to role players is not an asset.

The celtics' best rebuilding option is the same as it was: let PP and KG expire or retire, try to use the cap space to land some superstar, and if that doesn't work, use that cap space to generate more picks and trade exceptions.

Times like these that I appreciate that Ainge is the GM.
When Pierce and KG retire, Boston still won't have cap space for anything more than a MLE type player until 2015 without making major trades.  That strategy was a good one and one I wanted to do, but Ainge blew that ability with his signings this summer.  That is why he needed to make moves, because that was the only way he was going to clear the salary he would have needed to clear.

Not really true.  If Pierce plays through next season, and KG retires when Pierce's contract ends, we should have $8-10 milliion in cap room, assuming we sign Bradley to a reasonable extension ($7-9 mil per year, in my opinion.)  Also, that's assuming that we use the MLE this offseason to sign someone to a multi-year deal.  It's not tons of cap room, but also by that point some of the other deals will be in their final year, and easier to move to clear more space.

If KG doesn't retire until the end of his deal, then you're right, but the entire point was to have almost all the salary come off the books when KG's (and Rondo's) deals expired.  But if KG retires early, we should have a decent amount of cap flexibility the year he retires.

Offline TheTruthFot18

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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #83 on: February 23, 2013, 10:10:53 AM »
29 teams fail to win a title every year. I say enjoy the ride, and take advantage of the opportunity to watc a couple of Hall of Famernls play for your favorite team.

Damage control........we came into the season with high hopes on winning a title.........and now we're reduced to having to settle for watching two hall of famers past their primes play and get bounced out of the first or second round.........yay......

Stuff happens.  It's not Danny's fault that Rondo, Sully, and Barbosa all had season-ending injuries.

It must suck being a sports fan, if there's no other joy than winning a title.

TP

Seems to be some peoples perspective and in the media
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Offline Lightskinsmurf

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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #84 on: February 23, 2013, 10:16:27 AM »
id rather watch mediocre to above average ball with vets than a team that stinks full of young guys with "upside".

people on boards like this always prefer potential and rebuilding, which i just dont understand. give me an aging pierce and kg over bledsoe, d jordan, etc any day of the week.

i feel sad for those fans who have the championship or nothing mentality. it is completely unrealistic lol

I feel bad for people that still can't comprehend ......

Offline LB3533

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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #85 on: February 23, 2013, 10:19:17 AM »
I read these threads and I wonder if people see a different NBA than I do.

I look at all the contending teams, all the recent champions, and it is pretty clear to me what makes a team a contender. You either get one of the top picks in a draft (OKC with Durant and Westbrook, Spurs with Duncan, Clippers, etc), or you use cap space, expiring contracts, and cheap young potential all stars to get a superstar (Miami, us, Lakers, Clippers again).

None of the rumored trades would have done any of that. Deandre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe are nice little role players who will never be superstars, but who would take up quite a chunk of our salary, and the late 1st is not worth much. Same thing for Brooks, Humprhies and another late first. People talk of assets, but the assets have to be worth something. The right to pay 7 digit salaries to role players is not an asset.

The celtics' best rebuilding option is the same as it was: let PP and KG expire or retire, try to use the cap space to land some superstar, and if that doesn't work, use that cap space to generate more picks and trade exceptions.

Times like these that I appreciate that Ainge is the GM.
When Pierce and KG retire, Boston still won't have cap space for anything more than a MLE type player until 2015 without making major trades.  That strategy was a good one and one I wanted to do, but Ainge blew that ability with his signings this summer.  That is why he needed to make moves, because that was the only way he was going to clear the salary he would have needed to clear.

Not really true.  If Pierce plays through next season, and KG retires when Pierce's contract ends, we should have $8-10 milliion in cap room, assuming we sign Bradley to a reasonable extension ($7-9 mil per year, in my opinion.)  Also, that's assuming that we use the MLE this offseason to sign someone to a multi-year deal.  It's not tons of cap room, but also by that point some of the other deals will be in their final year, and easier to move to clear more space.

If KG doesn't retire until the end of his deal, then you're right, but the entire point was to have almost all the salary come off the books when KG's (and Rondo's) deals expired.  But if KG retires early, we should have a decent amount of cap flexibility the year he retires.

I like Bradley and what he brings to the table, but he is no where close to being a 7-9 million dollar player, and I don't know if he ever will be.


Offline GreenFaith1819

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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #86 on: February 23, 2013, 10:27:14 AM »
id rather watch mediocre to above average ball with vets than a team that stinks full of young guys with "upside".

people on boards like this always prefer potential and rebuilding, which i just dont understand. give me an aging pierce and kg over bledsoe, d jordan, etc any day of the week.

i feel sad for those fans who have the championship or nothing mentality. it is completely unrealistic lol

I feel bad for people that still can't comprehend ......

Comprehend what?
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Online BballTim

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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #87 on: February 23, 2013, 10:34:18 AM »
I read these threads and I wonder if people see a different NBA than I do.

I look at all the contending teams, all the recent champions, and it is pretty clear to me what makes a team a contender. You either get one of the top picks in a draft (OKC with Durant and Westbrook, Spurs with Duncan, Clippers, etc), or you use cap space, expiring contracts, and cheap young potential all stars to get a superstar (Miami, us, Lakers, Clippers again).

None of the rumored trades would have done any of that. Deandre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe are nice little role players who will never be superstars, but who would take up quite a chunk of our salary, and the late 1st is not worth much. Same thing for Brooks, Humprhies and another late first. People talk of assets, but the assets have to be worth something. The right to pay 7 digit salaries to role players is not an asset.

The celtics' best rebuilding option is the same as it was: let PP and KG expire or retire, try to use the cap space to land some superstar, and if that doesn't work, use that cap space to generate more picks and trade exceptions.

Times like these that I appreciate that Ainge is the GM.
When Pierce and KG retire, Boston still won't have cap space for anything more than a MLE type player until 2015 without making major trades.  That strategy was a good one and one I wanted to do, but Ainge blew that ability with his signings this summer.  That is why he needed to make moves, because that was the only way he was going to clear the salary he would have needed to clear.

  2015 is when KG's contract ends.

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #88 on: February 23, 2013, 10:38:52 AM »
id rather watch mediocre to above average ball with vets than a team that stinks full of young guys with "upside".

people on boards like this always prefer potential and rebuilding, which i just dont understand. give me an aging pierce and kg over bledsoe, d jordan, etc any day of the week.

i feel sad for those fans who have the championship or nothing mentality. it is completely unrealistic lol

I feel bad for people that still can't comprehend ......

Comprehend what?

That just because a season is championship or bust doesn't mean we didn't enjoy the season if it ends the wrong way. It just means it was a bust not a success and we are extremely disappointed by the way it ended but we still enjoyed the ride. Also the fact that we *Most celtics fans* want to either be in serious contention for a title or seriously working on getting back to that point. Not just staying middle of the pack and being satisfied.

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #89 on: February 23, 2013, 10:44:22 AM »
For me, I'm just glad that Danny didn't pull the plug on this team, for what was rumored to be coming back.

I guess as an older fan, I'm used to Lean Years...seeing the team in decline.

"This" team? I think we have a much brighter future with Sully, AB, Jeff Green and now Crawford...Sully will be a year into the league (and getting more respect from the refs)....AB, already a defensive specialist, will continue to get better. Jeff Green is coming into his own, and now I'm happy that we've added Jordan Crawford....let's see what Crawford will do on a winning team.

After last night performance, I think JC is a keeper, myself.

For me, I just don't see any reason to be disappointed in this team. We have a bright future, we're getting Rondo back, KG and Paul will still be around, and Fab will have another yr under his belt to develop.

I'd take our future AND current team over a still developing (and IMO overpaid) DeAndre Jordan, Kris Humphries, and whatever else was rumored for our two HOFers.

As the next few months progress, we will find out why Chris Paul coveted Kevin Garnett so much...I don't think DeAndre has progressed to the point of getting them much farther than last yr, to be honest.

KG (and Paul) are still in Green, and I'm happy for that. There is STILL so much ball to be played this year.
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C- Bill Walton/James "Buddha" Edwards/Danny Schayes/Caldwell Jones
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