Author Topic: Totally and utterly disappointed  (Read 5570 times)

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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #60 on: February 22, 2013, 02:01:07 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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The time for Ainge to blow it up was 2 or 3 years ago. 

The time for Ainge to blow it up is the summer of 2014.
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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #61 on: February 22, 2013, 02:35:11 PM »

Offline Chief

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This team can't win a title as presently constructed.  ...

Why are you even trying? Hasn´t it all been said several times at this point?

Isn´t it obvious that the soccermoms are more interested in keeping their binkies than having an open debate? Do they ever even adress the actual arguments? Aren´t the usual 15 suspects always the first to gang-up in "negative" threads with some fatalistic attitude about how they don´t care what´s best for the future of this franchise? How can you argue with one such guy, let alone a group of people?

They might be great guys to hang out and have a beer with, but they´re utterly unable to be rational when it comes to their favorite sports team.

TP. :)
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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2013, 02:36:51 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Huh?? What are we, the Golden St. Warriors all the sudden?? The Milwaukee Bucks? Hey who cares if we win. Just enjoy the ride. Let the Jordan Crawford wash over you. I thought that the Boston Celtics, winners of 17 championship banners were about more than just "enjoying the ride".

If I wanted to be like the Warriors or Bucks, I would have been rooting for the proposed Pierce-to-Brooklyn and KG-to-the-Clippers trades to happen.

Hey if that's you so be it. Sounds like a personal problem. Either way, I don't prescribe to the "Hey let's just enjoy the scenery" or "Hey, we just got Jordan Crawford. Boo-ya!" philosophy. This franchise is about winning. We don't hang division banners here.

Now you'll notice nowhere am I advocating making questionable moves for the sake of making questionable moves. But this season we are now reduced to just spinning our wheels. This team is not a title contender. And we are not building for the future. And we are already seeing the cracks in KG and Paul. They are warriors. God Bless the both of them. Bless KG for wanting to stay here and retire a Celtic. That's all well and good. But we're counting ong on a 36 year old Center and a 35 year old SF to somehow lead the way in the playoffs and you simply can't ask for that. They're wearing down now and we haven't even gotten to the end of the regular season. And as for Crawford, I'm always gonna root for laundry so I hope he works out. Terrence Williams too but I see way too many flaws in this team and the fact that we made a trade in which we got the most talented player in the deal and yet actually got worse is just staggering to me.

We have a better shot of having playoff success with our 36 year old center and our 35 year old small forward leading the way than we would have with anyone that I saw in proposed trades for them.

Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #63 on: February 22, 2013, 02:41:14 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Huh?? What are we, the Golden St. Warriors all the sudden?? The Milwaukee Bucks? Hey who cares if we win. Just enjoy the ride. Let the Jordan Crawford wash over you. I thought that the Boston Celtics, winners of 17 championship banners were about more than just "enjoying the ride".

If I wanted to be like the Warriors or Bucks, I would have been rooting for the proposed Pierce-to-Brooklyn and KG-to-the-Clippers trades to happen.

Hey if that's you so be it. Sounds like a personal problem. Either way, I don't prescribe to the "Hey let's just enjoy the scenery" or "Hey, we just got Jordan Crawford. Boo-ya!" philosophy. This franchise is about winning. We don't hang division banners here.

Now you'll notice nowhere am I advocating making questionable moves for the sake of making questionable moves. But this season we are now reduced to just spinning our wheels. This team is not a title contender. And we are not building for the future. And we are already seeing the cracks in KG and Paul. They are warriors. God Bless the both of them. Bless KG for wanting to stay here and retire a Celtic. That's all well and good. But we're counting ong on a 36 year old Center and a 35 year old SF to somehow lead the way in the playoffs and you simply can't ask for that. They're wearing down now and we haven't even gotten to the end of the regular season. And as for Crawford, I'm always gonna root for laundry so I hope he works out. Terrence Williams too but I see way too many flaws in this team and the fact that we made a trade in which we got the most talented player in the deal and yet actually got worse is just staggering to me.

We have a better shot of having playoff success with our 36 year old center and our 35 year old small forward leading the way than we would have with anyone that I saw in proposed trades for them.
you seem to have missed his point and mine for that matter.
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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #64 on: February 22, 2013, 02:43:51 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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This team can't win a title as presently constructed.  That means Boston had two real options at the deadline.  Blow it up and look for assets (trading PP and KG and whatever else you could) OR try to add pieces to give the team a better shot at winning this year (that would have likely meant trading Rondo).  Adding Jordan Crawford does nothing for either of those goals.  Boston will likely be the 6th, 7th, or 8th seed and likely will not get out of the second round (if even the first), which just delays the inevitable.  Danny needed to move the team off of center.  Go for it or rebuild.  Sitting pat just wastes the season.  Congrats Danny, another year gone and another year Boston doesn't win the title or enter rebuilding looking for that next title winning group.

Funny... this is pretty much exactly what I said last year when we failed to trade Ray and Pierce for young talent.  I was distraught about it.  And last year they actually had trade value.  This year, they didn't.

... But then we went on a little run and got some lucky draws in the playoffs.  So maybe that'll happen again.

Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #65 on: February 22, 2013, 02:48:48 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I'm going to say it again.

We supposedly tried to trade Pierce last year for the Nets lotto pick, but he killed the deal.  Not much you can do about it.  Pierce wouldn't allow himself to get traded and now he doesn't have the trade value unless you wanted a theoretical package of Kris Kardashian and a late 1st.

KG was never a trade option, because of his contract in previous years.   This year, there was a very real possibility that he would just retire.  Other teams were interested.  He decided to come back TO BOSTON to be a CELTIC.. he took a 50% pay cut and as a show of good faith, we gave him a no trade clause... assuring that he would be a Celtic for better or for worse.   He wasn't signing a contract here, busting his ass and bleeding green just so we could flip him at the deadline for some building blocks.  Trading him was never an option.  Get over it.  You could have lost him in the offseason for nothing and he decided to give it another go FOR YOU.


Anyone who is upset right now is tripping.  You guys are 1 or 2 years late on the disappointment train.  That ship sailed.  Enjoy your playoff participation badge while it lasts.  We'll be "blown up" soon enough when KG and Pierce ride off into the sunset.   

Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #66 on: February 22, 2013, 02:50:05 PM »

Offline Lord of Mikawa

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I'm glad all of these foolish trade threads are coming a hault. At least for now.
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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #67 on: February 22, 2013, 02:51:07 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Huh?? What are we, the Golden St. Warriors all the sudden?? The Milwaukee Bucks? Hey who cares if we win. Just enjoy the ride. Let the Jordan Crawford wash over you. I thought that the Boston Celtics, winners of 17 championship banners were about more than just "enjoying the ride".

If I wanted to be like the Warriors or Bucks, I would have been rooting for the proposed Pierce-to-Brooklyn and KG-to-the-Clippers trades to happen.

Hey if that's you so be it. Sounds like a personal problem. Either way, I don't prescribe to the "Hey let's just enjoy the scenery" or "Hey, we just got Jordan Crawford. Boo-ya!" philosophy. This franchise is about winning. We don't hang division banners here.

Now you'll notice nowhere am I advocating making questionable moves for the sake of making questionable moves. But this season we are now reduced to just spinning our wheels. This team is not a title contender. And we are not building for the future. And we are already seeing the cracks in KG and Paul. They are warriors. God Bless the both of them. Bless KG for wanting to stay here and retire a Celtic. That's all well and good. But we're counting ong on a 36 year old Center and a 35 year old SF to somehow lead the way in the playoffs and you simply can't ask for that. They're wearing down now and we haven't even gotten to the end of the regular season. And as for Crawford, I'm always gonna root for laundry so I hope he works out. Terrence Williams too but I see way too many flaws in this team and the fact that we made a trade in which we got the most talented player in the deal and yet actually got worse is just staggering to me.

We have a better shot of having playoff success with our 36 year old center and our 35 year old small forward leading the way than we would have with anyone that I saw in proposed trades for them.
you seem to have missed his point and mine for that matter.

I guess I did miss the point, then.  Maybe that's because neither of you have really explained what your point is.  I understand that you are frustrated by the lack of any big moves at the trading deadline, but, personally, I didn't see any available moves that would be a significant help for the present or the future.  Obviously, Danny didn't either. 

Which trades did Danny pass up on that you would have liked to see him make?

Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #68 on: February 22, 2013, 03:02:42 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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This team can't win a title as presently constructed.  ...

Why are you even trying? Hasn´t it all been said several times at this point?

Isn´t it obvious that the soccermoms are more interested in keeping their binkies than having an open debate? Do they ever even adress the actual arguments? Aren´t the usual 15 suspects always the first to gang-up in "negative" threads with some fatalistic attitude about how they don´t care what´s best for the future of this franchise? How can you argue with one such guy, let alone a group of people?

They might be great guys to hang out and have a beer with, but they´re utterly unable to be rational when it comes to their favorite sports team.

TP. :)

I havent heard the blow it up soccer dads (or are you the soccer player) present any arguements, well at all really.

Blowing it up and trading pierce and Kg for what you apparently perceive as value and leaving it at that isnt much of an arguement.

I also find it hard to believe that you soccer dads (or players?) Would be jumping up and down this season or next convincing everyone else that Danny is a genius and that his moves were the best for the franchise.

There will always be room for complaining if you dont win a championship though so my guess is there will be more complaining coming from you after year after than not

Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #69 on: February 22, 2013, 03:19:02 PM »

Offline foulweatherfan

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This team can't win a title as presently constructed.  ...

Why are you even trying? Hasn´t it all been said several times at this point?

Isn´t it obvious that the soccermoms are more interested in keeping their binkies than having an open debate? Do they ever even adress the actual arguments? Aren´t the usual 15 suspects always the first to gang-up in "negative" threads with some fatalistic attitude about how they don´t care what´s best for the future of this franchise? How can you argue with one such guy, let alone a group of people?

They might be great guys to hang out and have a beer with, but they´re utterly unable to be rational when it comes to their favorite sports team.

It's not so much that I disagree with Moranis' statement as I don't see an immediate or short-term alternative where it isn't also true.  Once Rondo went down there was no way to make this roster a legitimate contender this year without assuming some other GMs would be willing to make some horribly dumb decisions.  Once Sully and Barbosa went down there's no way I can see to even make it a fringe contender without assuming other GMs were functionally braindead and cripplingly afraid of success. 

So what was the alternative?  Blow it up and hit bottom?  KG unsurprisingly refused to be traded and nobody wanted to give us any kind of value for Pierce.  Rondo appears to still not be able to fetch any kind of game-changer.  And there was barely a peep of interest in our other long-term medium-dollar guys.  So there's no viable option in that direction either.

It's always easy to criticize management for not making vague, ill-defined deals that you imagine were available, and becomes much more difficult as you ground things more in the specific realities of the league. 

Just as it's always easy to argue against other positions when you get to slap whatever silly stereotype you find the most convenient, and much more difficult when you deign to ask people what they think instead of telling them.

Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #70 on: February 22, 2013, 03:28:30 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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Didnt Bird say Ainge was asking for Tyler Hansbarough and a first rounder last year for Ray?

Would it really have been that much more valueable to get that from a team or fan perspective than staying pat?

It didnt really block us from doing anything this year even with Ray bolting leaving us with nothing and we most likely dont get to ECF without Ray, let alone being up 3-2 vs miami and falling in 7.

Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #71 on: February 22, 2013, 03:58:27 PM »

Offline ChainSmokingLikeDino

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This team can't win a title as presently constructed.  ...

Why are you even trying? Hasn´t it all been said several times at this point?

Isn´t it obvious that the soccermoms are more interested in keeping their binkies than having an open debate? Do they ever even adress the actual arguments? Aren´t the usual 15 suspects always the first to gang-up in "negative" threads with some fatalistic attitude about how they don´t care what´s best for the future of this franchise? How can you argue with one such guy, let alone a group of people?

They might be great guys to hang out and have a beer with, but they´re utterly unable to be rational when it comes to their favorite sports team.

It's not so much that I disagree with Moranis' statement as I don't see an immediate or short-term alternative where it isn't also true.  Once Rondo went down there was no way to make this roster a legitimate contender this year without assuming some other GMs would be willing to make some horribly dumb decisions.  Once Sully and Barbosa went down there's no way I can see to even make it a fringe contender without assuming other GMs were functionally braindead and cripplingly afraid of success. 

So what was the alternative?  Blow it up and hit bottom?  KG unsurprisingly refused to be traded and nobody wanted to give us any kind of value for Pierce.  Rondo appears to still not be able to fetch any kind of game-changer.  And there was barely a peep of interest in our other long-term medium-dollar guys.  So there's no viable option in that direction either.

It's always easy to criticize management for not making vague, ill-defined deals that you imagine were available, and becomes much more difficult as you ground things more in the specific realities of the league. 

Just as it's always easy to argue against other positions when you get to slap whatever silly stereotype you find the most convenient, and much more difficult when you deign to ask people what they think instead of telling them.

TP. How DARE Danny not make a rebuild trade that wasn't available. How DARE Danny not get the missing piece for this team (that is minus 3 players) that wasn't there. The PP to NJ trade that was available would have been horrible. Platonic ideals of trades plugged into the trade machine are swell but they aren't what you actually can do.

There are so rarely trade deadline huge deals. Why do people go in every year thinking something big is going to happen when it never does. It is much easier to rebuild/restructure in the off season.

Jeesh.

Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #72 on: February 22, 2013, 04:01:37 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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The time for Ainge to blow it up was 2 or 3 years ago. 

I think we should have blown it up around the 2008 trade deadline, myself.  It's a lot more fun to root for ping pong balls than it is to cheer for wins.

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Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #73 on: February 22, 2013, 04:06:05 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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the fact that we made a trade in which we got the most talented player in the deal and yet actually got worse is just staggering to me.

Anyone who thinks losing Collins makes Boston any worse staggers me.

I really don't understand the despair and wailing.  The time for Ainge to blow it up was 2 or 3 years ago.  This time around, there was only one possible deal that made any sense (Bledsoe/Jordan for KG) and we probably wouldn't have been able to resign KG without the no-trade clause, so the deal was a non-starter from get go.  Other than that, I don't see what Ainge was actually supposed to do.

Mike

It's not wailing dude. Or despair. It's actually kinda funny. We trade away KG's primary backup(and if you believe Doc, a major lockerroom presence) for selfish backup gunner. This assessment is completely independant of any assessment as to any other deals so leave that topic at the door. I'm not interested in making bad trades in general. I understand the logic behind this deal but if you listen to anyone in basketball they're saying this kid is ridiculous, in a bad way. Does not play defense. Takes bad shots. Has an over-inflated opinion of himself. Benched by the Wizards of all teams for being a bad teammate. How does this guy help us again? He's not even gonna be playing much. What was the point?
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity...

Re: Totally and utterly disappointed
« Reply #74 on: February 22, 2013, 04:20:37 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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Huh?? What are we, the Golden St. Warriors all the sudden?? The Milwaukee Bucks? Hey who cares if we win. Just enjoy the ride. Let the Jordan Crawford wash over you. I thought that the Boston Celtics, winners of 17 championship banners were about more than just "enjoying the ride".

If I wanted to be like the Warriors or Bucks, I would have been rooting for the proposed Pierce-to-Brooklyn and KG-to-the-Clippers trades to happen.

Hey if that's you so be it. Sounds like a personal problem. Either way, I don't prescribe to the "Hey let's just enjoy the scenery" or "Hey, we just got Jordan Crawford. Boo-ya!" philosophy. This franchise is about winning. We don't hang division banners here.

Now you'll notice nowhere am I advocating making questionable moves for the sake of making questionable moves. But this season we are now reduced to just spinning our wheels. This team is not a title contender. And we are not building for the future. And we are already seeing the cracks in KG and Paul. They are warriors. God Bless the both of them. Bless KG for wanting to stay here and retire a Celtic. That's all well and good. But we're counting ong on a 36 year old Center and a 35 year old SF to somehow lead the way in the playoffs and you simply can't ask for that. They're wearing down now and we haven't even gotten to the end of the regular season. And as for Crawford, I'm always gonna root for laundry so I hope he works out. Terrence Williams too but I see way too many flaws in this team and the fact that we made a trade in which we got the most talented player in the deal and yet actually got worse is just staggering to me.

We have a better shot of having playoff success with our 36 year old center and our 35 year old small forward leading the way than we would have with anyone that I saw in proposed trades for them.

Take a look at that sentence and tell me why that assessment alone doesn't bother you. Our best option your saying is to rely on a 36 year old Center and a 35 year old SF. This is our best option. I'm not debating the validity of the statement. I'm just asking you to reread and tell me why this is a good thing. Why should we be HAPPY about that? Why should we enjoy this ride?  Because we have no choice?
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity...

 

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