Totally and utterly disappointed

[vinnie]

This team can't win a title as presently constructed.  That means Boston had two real options at the deadline.  Blow it up and look for assets (trading PP and KG and whatever else you could) OR try to add pieces to give the team a better shot at winning this year (that would have likely meant trading Rondo).  Adding Jordan Crawford does nothing for either of those goals.  Boston will likely be the 6th, 7th, or 8th seed and likely will not get out of the second round (if even the first), which just delays the inevitable.  Danny needed to move the team off of center.  Go for it or rebuild.  Sitting pat just wastes the season.  Congrats Danny, another year gone and another year Boston doesn't win the title or enter rebuilding looking for that next title winning group.

Totally and utterly dramatic and a complete waste of time to read

Man. 149 posts and this guy is already telling everybody what they should post and how they should post it. I don't know how we survived before you arrived. 

[Roy H.]

Come on, guys. No need for that.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

This team can't win a title as presently constructed.  That means Boston had two real options at the deadline.  Blow it up and look for assets (trading PP and KG and whatever else you could) OR try to add pieces to give the team a better shot at winning this year (that would have likely meant trading Rondo).  Adding Jordan Crawford does nothing for either of those goals.  Boston will likely be the 6th, 7th, or 8th seed and likely will not get out of the second round (if even the first), which just delays the inevitable.  Danny needed to move the team off of center.  Go for it or rebuild.  Sitting pat just wastes the season.  Congrats Danny, another year gone and another year Boston doesn't win the title or enter rebuilding looking for that next title winning group.

Totally and utterly dramatic and a complete waste of time to read

Man. 149 posts and this guy is already telling everybody what they should post and how they should post it. I don't know how we survived before you arrived. 

LOL That is so true.

To say it to Moranis too, who I think has a ton more great insight than most of us posters here, combined.

[vinnie]

Come on, guys. No need for that.

Sorry, Roy.

[Lightskinsmurf]

id rather watch mediocre to above average ball with vets than a team that stinks full of young guys with "upside".

people on boards like this always prefer potential and rebuilding, which i just dont understand. give me an aging pierce and kg over bledsoe, d jordan, etc any day of the week.

i feel sad for those fans who have the championship or nothing mentality. it is completely unrealistic lol

I feel bad for people that still can't comprehend ......

Comprehend what?

That just because a season is championship or bust doesn't mean we didn't enjoy the season if it ends the wrong way. It just means it was a bust not a success and we are extremely disappointed by the way it ended but we still enjoyed the ride. Also the fact that we *Most celtics fans* want to either be in serious contention for a title or seriously working on getting back to that point. Not just staying middle of the pack and being satisfied.

Point taken.

It just seems, to me, that some of us wanted to see KG and Paul go.

For me, I just didn't see how whatever was coming back for them would've helped us - either now or in the future.

Doc Rivers, as one of (IMO) the top 2-3 coaches in the league, would've taken 2-3 yrs, perhaps even longer, to get a DeAndre, Kris Humphries, Brooks, etc - lineup to work. He is methodical.

I think that if Danny would've gone THAT route, we could've seen an even WORSE rebuild than before in the 90s...

...while seeing Chris Paul gloat in his 1st championship. KG would've helped to bring that to him.

Thankfully, KG chose BOS...I'm thinking he still sees a shot for a banner, here...even it is so small a shot.

Oftentimes, that's all you need - is a small shot.

I'm estatic that Danny didn't blow it up.

I hear all that you're saying. I hope you're right. Just playing devil's advocate for a minute. Had Danny made those trades. Given that some people here have said that they don't have to win a title every year, couldn't you have enjoyed that "alternate ride" just the same. I'm sure either way Danny would've had a plan. What I don't understand is the finality some people seem to be attributing to trades and the assets we would've gotten back.

Anything we might've gotten back could be flipped again for other assets. Given how fruitless trying to acquire cap space to lure free agents is, or trying to tank for that matter. Acquiring assets to flip for other assets in search of the right mix seemed to work before. In the end, this is all a moot point. KG wasn't going to remove his no trade. Danny didn't like the offers for Paul so we stick. It's done.

I just don't get the "enjoy the ride" attitude because "you can't win every year". If we're just enjoying the ride, why does it matter if we make the deal or not. Can we not enjoy the ride of grooming new assets? I mean we have a small shot to win either way so what's the difference to those people? Again, it matters. Because we're not Golden St. We're not Milwaukee. We're not Atlanta. If we're not trying to win a title, or working towards building a team that has a chance to win one, what are we doing here? This franchise is about more than that.

Very well said especially the last couple of sentences.

[cman88]

By all accounts, if Danny could get bledsoe/Jordan for Garnett he would...but the clippers management didnt want to pull the trigger

but you DONT trade pierce for garbage like Humphries and a low 1st round pick...just because Rondo is injured for the year.

yes, our chances this year are very difficult given the fact that Rondo went down and when you need offense to be created, its going to have to be from Pierce/Garnett/Terry in the playoffs now.

say we do trade Garnett/Pierce...this team has Too much talent on it to ever be a lottery team to grab a top5 pick. so then, you are talking about unloading someone like Rondo, green just so you can get bad and "Hope" you can snag someone as good as him.

if you have a talent like Rondo, I think you try to go for it and build around them...

even if both Garnett/pierce retire Ainge has some nice pieces he can package together to land the next star in boston

Rondo, Bradley, Green, Lee, Sullinger, Bass, Jordan, Williams(assuming we re-sign him) Melo

[Lightskinsmurf]

Come on, guys. No need for that.

Here comes captain save a how is your day going roy?

[BballTim]

Come on, guys. No need for that.

Here comes captain save a how is your day going roy?

  No offense, but people might wonder if you're having a mild stroke when they read that sentence.

[gar]

This team can't win a title as presently constructed.  That means Boston had two real options at the deadline.  Blow it up and look for assets (trading PP and KG and whatever else you could) OR try to add pieces to give the team a better shot at winning this year (that would have likely meant trading Rondo).  Adding Jordan Crawford does nothing for either of those goals.  Boston will likely be the 6th, 7th, or 8th seed and likely will not get out of the second round (if even the first), which just delays the inevitable.  Danny needed to move the team off of center.  Go for it or rebuild.  Sitting pat just wastes the season.  Congrats Danny, another year gone and another year Boston doesn't win the title or enter rebuilding looking for that next title winning group.

Like others really believe that Danny's hands were tied. Could not trade Pierce without moving KG. So KG (and the Clippers) basically were calling the shots. Like the new guys. I think it bodes well for the rebuilding process.

T-Will is way better than Tony Allen. Not so wild about Crawford; but the second unit needs instant offense so basically we got Marshon Brooks without loosing Pierce.

I think you need KG and Pierce in the locker room. Rondo and Green are not ready to take the reigns yet.

Glass half full!

[GreenFaith1819]

id rather watch mediocre to above average ball with vets than a team that stinks full of young guys with "upside".

people on boards like this always prefer potential and rebuilding, which i just dont understand. give me an aging pierce and kg over bledsoe, d jordan, etc any day of the week.

i feel sad for those fans who have the championship or nothing mentality. it is completely unrealistic lol

I feel bad for people that still can't comprehend ......

Comprehend what?

That just because a season is championship or bust doesn't mean we didn't enjoy the season if it ends the wrong way. It just means it was a bust not a success and we are extremely disappointed by the way it ended but we still enjoyed the ride. Also the fact that we *Most celtics fans* want to either be in serious contention for a title or seriously working on getting back to that point. Not just staying middle of the pack and being satisfied.

Point taken.

It just seems, to me, that some of us wanted to see KG and Paul go.

For me, I just didn't see how whatever was coming back for them would've helped us - either now or in the future.

Doc Rivers, as one of (IMO) the top 2-3 coaches in the league, would've taken 2-3 yrs, perhaps even longer, to get a DeAndre, Kris Humphries, Brooks, etc - lineup to work. He is methodical.

I think that if Danny would've gone THAT route, we could've seen an even WORSE rebuild than before in the 90s...

...while seeing Chris Paul gloat in his 1st championship. KG would've helped to bring that to him.

Thankfully, KG chose BOS...I'm thinking he still sees a shot for a banner, here...even it is so small a shot.

Oftentimes, that's all you need - is a small shot.

I'm estatic that Danny didn't blow it up.

I hear all that you're saying. I hope you're right. Just playing devil's advocate for a minute. Had Danny made those trades. Given that some people here have said that they don't have to win a title every year, couldn't you have enjoyed that "alternate ride" just the same. I'm sure either way Danny would've had a plan. What I don't understand is the finality some people seem to be attributing to trades and the assets we would've gotten back.

Anything we might've gotten back could be flipped again for other assets. Given how fruitless trying to acquire cap space to lure free agents is, or trying to tank for that matter. Acquiring assets to flip for other assets in search of the right mix seemed to work before. In the end, this is all a moot point. KG wasn't going to remove his no trade. Danny didn't like the offers for Paul so we stick. It's done.

I just don't get the "enjoy the ride" attitude because "you can't win every year". If we're just enjoying the ride, why does it matter if we make the deal or not. Can we not enjoy the ride of grooming new assets? I mean we have a small shot to win either way so what's the difference to those people? Again, it matters. Because we're not Golden St. We're not Milwaukee. We're not Atlanta. If we're not trying to win a title, or working towards building a team that has a chance to win one, what are we doing here? This franchise is about more than that.

I see your point here, BR - but man an alternate ride featuring DeAndre Jordan would've been a bit tenuous, to me.

That game last thursday vs the Spurs? Tim Duncan and Co exposed him....man got a tech out of frustration.

He's rebounding less this year..not blocking as many shots. I can perhaps attribute the drop in blocks to the fact that many opponents just don't venture into the paint, but if you can't seemingly get better offensively by now then that is telling, to me.

Here are his stats from BBall-reference:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordade01.html

On a side note - Blake Griffin is rebounding less, too.

IMO, I personally think that there is  LOT MORE to Chris Paul coveting KG like he was...a LOT more.....being the smart, savvy player that he is, Chris Paul is thinking that "Perhaps this frontline CANNOT get past a re-energized Lakers team"...as great a player as Blake is already, that is a LOT of heavy lifting to expect out of him in a seven game series.

If any team is primed for an upset in the post-season, I'm picking the Clips.

In summary, I think the cornerstone of the alternate reality that we speak of, BR - would've been DeAndre Jordan. Eric Bledsoe, while a nice player, is still a good role player.

The Clips would've probably thrown in Odom, but being that his heart is in LA I'm not sure of the positive returns, there.

Based off of what BKN offered - Kris Humphries has lost his starting job to none other than Reggie Evans.

Marshon Brooks looked like a kobe clone for about a month last season - while NJ/BKN was losing. Since then, he hasn't seen a lot of PT.

The two 1st round picks that BKN offered us would've probably fallen in the mid-teens...BKN is a playoff team at the very least for the next couple of yrs. Not sure who we could've picked up talent-wise that late for the next couple of upcoming drafts.

So, alternately, we are looking at a blow-it-up aftermath of:

C-DeAndre/Wilcox
PF - Humphries/Jared/Wilcox
SF - Jeff Green
SG - Lee/AB/Brooks
PG - AB/Jet/Rondo (Next Year)

Even with Rondo playing a a playoff-level during the regular season, I just don't see that team even making the playoffs next season, or ever. Throw in DeAndre's 10mil contract, and Doc has a long rebuild ahead of him.

Some may like that alternate reality path, but man I'd be sad if Danny would've gone that route.

Personally, like I stated earlier - I think the Clips AND BKN will be getting exposed as the season wears on, and I'm glad that two players who could've helped both of them are STILL in Boston.

[mctyson]

29 teams fail to win a title every year. I say enjoy the ride, and take advantage of the opportunity to watch a couple of Hall of Famers play for your favorite team.

It is amazing to me how this simple fact eludes most of the fans on this board.

[LooseCannon]

29 teams fail to win a title every year. I say enjoy the ride, and take advantage of the opportunity to watch a couple of Hall of Famers play for your favorite team.

It is amazing to me how this simple fact eludes most of the fans on this board.

If you study psychology, it's not that surprising.  If, for example, you put out a team with a 5% chance of winning the title, that's actually a pretty good shot, but some people would see that as practically 0% and call for the team to be blown up.

[mctyson]

id rather watch mediocre to above average ball with vets than a team that stinks full of young guys with "upside".

people on boards like this always prefer potential and rebuilding, which i just dont understand. give me an aging pierce and kg over bledsoe, d jordan, etc any day of the week.

i feel sad for those fans who have the championship or nothing mentality. it is completely unrealistic lol

I feel bad for people that still can't comprehend ......

Comprehend what?

That just because a season is championship or bust doesn't mean we didn't enjoy the season if it ends the wrong way. It just means it was a bust not a success and we are extremely disappointed by the way it ended but we still enjoyed the ride. Also the fact that we *Most celtics fans* want to either be in serious contention for a title or seriously working on getting back to that point. Not just staying middle of the pack and being satisfied.

Point taken.

It just seems, to me, that some of us wanted to see KG and Paul go.

For me, I just didn't see how whatever was coming back for them would've helped us - either now or in the future.

Doc Rivers, as one of (IMO) the top 2-3 coaches in the league, would've taken 2-3 yrs, perhaps even longer, to get a DeAndre, Kris Humphries, Brooks, etc - lineup to work. He is methodical.

I think that if Danny would've gone THAT route, we could've seen an even WORSE rebuild than before in the 90s...

...while seeing Chris Paul gloat in his 1st championship. KG would've helped to bring that to him.

Thankfully, KG chose BOS...I'm thinking he still sees a shot for a banner, here...even it is so small a shot.

Oftentimes, that's all you need - is a small shot.

I'm estatic that Danny didn't blow it up.

I hear all that you're saying. I hope you're right. Just playing devil's advocate for a minute. Had Danny made those trades. Given that some people here have said that they don't have to win a title every year, couldn't you have enjoyed that "alternate ride" just the same. I'm sure either way Danny would've had a plan. What I don't understand is the finality some people seem to be attributing to trades and the assets we would've gotten back.

Anything we might've gotten back could be flipped again for other assets. Given how fruitless trying to acquire cap space to lure free agents is, or trying to tank for that matter. Acquiring assets to flip for other assets in search of the right mix seemed to work before. In the end, this is all a moot point. KG wasn't going to remove his no trade. Danny didn't like the offers for Paul so we stick. It's done.

I just don't get the "enjoy the ride" attitude because "you can't win every year". If we're just enjoying the ride, why does it matter if we make the deal or not. Can we not enjoy the ride of grooming new assets? I mean we have a small shot to win either way so what's the difference to those people? Again, it matters. Because we're not Golden St. We're not Milwaukee. We're not Atlanta. If we're not trying to win a title, or working towards building a team that has a chance to win one, what are we doing here? This franchise is about more than that.

This is where the "make the deal" crowd is wrong.  KG and Pierce have won a championship, been to 2, been to multiple conference finals, and have done no worse then lose to the eventual Eastern Conference champions EVERY SINGLE YEAR since they have been together.

People forget this. 

Ok, let's grant that last year there was some luck involved with the Rose injury.  But don't tell me that the series against Atlanta or Philly was evidence of a bad team getting lucky to make it to the EC Finals.  Remember '08 playoffs?  The 60-win championship team that had to go to a Game 7 against an Atlanta squad that was almost 10 games under .500?  What was that all about?

The last half of the 2012 season, with KG at center, the Celtics were playing .700 ball.  That is championship-caliber play.

Assuming that KG and Pierce have not taken a step back this season (and the evidence is that they haven't), why can't we expect something similar in 2013? 

That's the point.  The "make the deal" crowd assumes that trading KG and Pierce would be some type of lateral move, leaving us a competitive team with the same "chance" to win the East.

Let me reiterate:  since KG and Pierce have been together, the only team that has ousted them from the playoffs eventually went to the NBA finals.  That should tell you all you need to know about those two players, how good they make this team, and exactly why I would never trade them until they prove they can't contend anymore.

And that is NOT this year.

[colincb]

id rather watch mediocre to above average ball with vets than a team that stinks full of young guys with "upside".

people on boards like this always prefer potential and rebuilding, which i just dont understand. give me an aging pierce and kg over bledsoe, d jordan, etc any day of the week.

i feel sad for those fans who have the championship or nothing mentality. it is completely unrealistic lol

I feel bad for people that still can't comprehend ......

Comprehend what?

That just because a season is championship or bust doesn't mean we didn't enjoy the season if it ends the wrong way. It just means it was a bust not a success and we are extremely disappointed by the way it ended but we still enjoyed the ride. Also the fact that we *Most celtics fans* want to either be in serious contention for a title or seriously working on getting back to that point. Not just staying middle of the pack and being satisfied.

Point taken.

It just seems, to me, that some of us wanted to see KG and Paul go.

For me, I just didn't see how whatever was coming back for them would've helped us - either now or in the future.

Doc Rivers, as one of (IMO) the top 2-3 coaches in the league, would've taken 2-3 yrs, perhaps even longer, to get a DeAndre, Kris Humphries, Brooks, etc - lineup to work. He is methodical.

I think that if Danny would've gone THAT route, we could've seen an even WORSE rebuild than before in the 90s...

...while seeing Chris Paul gloat in his 1st championship. KG would've helped to bring that to him.

Thankfully, KG chose BOS...I'm thinking he still sees a shot for a banner, here...even it is so small a shot.

Oftentimes, that's all you need - is a small shot.

I'm estatic that Danny didn't blow it up.

I hear all that you're saying. I hope you're right. Just playing devil's advocate for a minute. Had Danny made those trades. Given that some people here have said that they don't have to win a title every year, couldn't you have enjoyed that "alternate ride" just the same. I'm sure either way Danny would've had a plan. What I don't understand is the finality some people seem to be attributing to trades and the assets we would've gotten back.

Anything we might've gotten back could be flipped again for other assets. Given how fruitless trying to acquire cap space to lure free agents is, or trying to tank for that matter. Acquiring assets to flip for other assets in search of the right mix seemed to work before. In the end, this is all a moot point. KG wasn't going to remove his no trade. Danny didn't like the offers for Paul so we stick. It's done.

I just don't get the "enjoy the ride" attitude because "you can't win every year". If we're just enjoying the ride, why does it matter if we make the deal or not. Can we not enjoy the ride of grooming new assets? I mean we have a small shot to win either way so what's the difference to those people? Again, it matters. Because we're not Golden St. We're not Milwaukee. We're not Atlanta. If we're not trying to win a title, or working towards building a team that has a chance to win one, what are we doing here? This franchise is about more than that.

I see your point here, BR - but man an alternate ride featuring DeAndre Jordan would've been a bit tenuous, to me.

That game last thursday vs the Spurs? Tim Duncan and Co exposed him....man got a tech out of frustration.

He's rebounding less this year..not blocking as many shots. I can perhaps attribute the drop in blocks to the fact that many opponents just don't venture into the paint, but if you can't seemingly get better offensively by now then that is telling, to me.

Here are his stats from BBall-reference:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordade01.html

On a side note - Blake Griffin is rebounding less, too.

IMO, I personally think that there is  LOT MORE to Chris Paul coveting KG like he was...a LOT more.....being the smart, savvy player that he is, Chris Paul is thinking that "Perhaps this frontline CANNOT get past a re-energized Lakers team"...as great a player as Blake is already, that is a LOT of heavy lifting to expect out of him in a seven game series.

If any team is primed for an upset in the post-season, I'm picking the Clips.

In summary, I think the cornerstone of the alternate reality that we speak of, BR - would've been DeAndre Jordan. Eric Bledsoe, while a nice player, is still a good role player.

The Clips would've probably thrown in Odom, but being that his heart is in LA I'm not sure of the positive returns, there.

Based off of what BKN offered - Kris Humphries has lost his starting job to none other than Reggie Evans.

Marshon Brooks looked like a kobe clone for about a month last season - while NJ/BKN was losing. Since then, he hasn't seen a lot of PT.

The two 1st round picks that BKN offered us would've probably fallen in the mid-teens...BKN is a playoff team at the very least for the next couple of yrs. Not sure who we could've picked up talent-wise that late for the next couple of upcoming drafts.

So, alternately, we are looking at a blow-it-up aftermath of:

C-DeAndre/Wilcox
PF - Humphries/Jared/Wilcox
SF - Jeff Green
SG - Lee/AB/Brooks
PG - AB/Jet/Rondo (Next Year)

Even with Rondo playing a a playoff-level during the regular season, I just don't see that team even making the playoffs next season, or ever. Throw in DeAndre's 10mil contract, and Doc has a long rebuild ahead of him.

Some may like that alternate reality path, but man I'd be sad if Danny would've gone that route.

Personally, like I stated earlier - I think the Clips AND BKN will be getting exposed as the season wears on, and I'm glad that two players who could've helped both of them are STILL in Boston.

Actually, it's a no-brainer for CP - KG would be playing instead of Lamar Odom in the 4th quarter.  Neither Bledsoe nor Jordan are playing down the stretch for the Clippers.

[tenn_smoothie]

Celtics are about winning - and mostly about winning championships, not division titles.

Celtics are also about being a unique franchise in a league full of cut-outs - a unique franchise that values its players and takes care of them and doesn't treat them like chess pieces. remember Tommy talking about Boston being a team where you felt safe buying a house because you knew that even when you had lost a step, you stayed to be a role player and to teach the young guys how to be a Celtic.

sometimes those two values are in complete conflict. i have been in agony ever since Game 7 2010 and have wanted another banner for this group in the worst way. i also would never have traded Bird, Parish, McHale, DJ or Ainge and i wouldn't trade Garnett or Pierce either. i know this is a different time and all, but some values should not be compromised.

sometimes in life, you ride it out with what's in your heart and have faith that things will work out.

remember that the 90's era flatline was much more about losing Len Bias and Reggie Lewis than it was holding onto veterans that deserved to retire here. what franchise could have endured those kind of losses and recovered quickly ? the early 2000's are on Pitino.