Should we just start Green out of position at PF?

[j804]

I really hope Doc was paying attention to last night's game because the blue print for this team to beat Miami was in last night's game. I know people on this board HATE small ball but good small ball will beat this Miami team.

Doc has to start KG/Green/Pierce/Bradley/Lee against this team and play Green and Pierce 40 minutes a night in a series.

KG will match with Bosh
Pierce will match with LeBron
Bradley will match with Wade
Lee will match with Chalmers

And then the mismatch that kept us in last night's game is then exploited. Battier does okay on Green but major minutes by Anderson and Haslem will be played against Green and he clearly can take both off the dribble and score going to the basket. He did it over and over and over again last night.

And when Bosh and Lebron try to sneak over and help on Green after the C's spread the floor and open up the middle for him, Doc can make sure KG and Pierce have some baseline extended positioning for the kick out and the easy jay.

Now I don't think the C's start green versus Indiana, Atlanta, Chicago, and maybe NY if Amare gets back but against Miami, Brooklyn, and Milwaukee I think Green starting gives the C's significant match up advantages that those teams will find difficult to guard against, namely, two SF's that at times can be elite scorers.

Good post somebody hammer this to Forsberg or Payne who can feed it to Doc in a presser

[Celtics18]

I really hope Doc was paying attention to last night's game because the blue print for this team to beat Miami was in last night's game. I know people on this board HATE small ball but good small ball will beat this Miami team.

Doc has to start KG/Green/Pierce/Bradley/Lee against this team and play Green and Pierce 40 minutes a night in a series.

KG will match with Bosh
Pierce will match with LeBron
Bradley will match with Wade
Lee will match with Chalmers

And then the mismatch that kept us in last night's game is then exploited. Battier does okay on Green but major minutes by Anderson and Haslem will be played against Green and he clearly can take both off the dribble and score going to the basket. He did it over and over and over again last night.

And when Bosh and Lebron try to sneak over and help on Green after the C's spread the floor and open up the middle for him, Doc can make sure KG and Pierce have some baseline extended positioning for the kick out and the easy jay.

Now I don't think the C's start green versus Indiana, Atlanta, Chicago, and maybe NY if Amare gets back but against Miami, Brooklyn, and Milwaukee I think Green starting gives the C's significant match up advantages that those teams will find difficult to guard against, namely, two SF's that at times can be elite scorers.

I agree with all of this, except that Doc doesn't need to start Jeff Green to play him 40 minutes a game.  In the last Miami game where we won, Jeff played 42 minutes off the bench. 

I don't like the idea of having different starting lineups depending on match ups.  I say stick with Brandon as your starting power forward, and play Jeff big minutes at the four in the games where it's needed. 

[guava_wrench]

Against Certain lineups, now that Green is hitting peak conditioning, starting him could make sense.

He will definitely start next season, with or without Pierce on the team.

[Spicoli]

If Doc doesn't want to start Jeff okay, but if Jeff is playing less than 35 mins a night going forward, i'm going to have a serious problem. He's clearly the second best offensive player on this team (even when Rondo and KG play). He needs to be given big minutes, and needs to be a focal point of the offense going forward.

[CelticConcourse]

If Doc doesn't want to start Jeff okay, but if Jeff is playing less than 35 mins a night going forward, i'm going to have a serious problem. He's clearly the second best offensive player on this team (even when Rondo and KG play). He needs to be given big minutes, and needs to be a focal point of the offense going forward.

Is he a guy we need to rest for the playoffs? He's definitely a top-three scorer on this team and without him, we're a .475 team

[bfrombleacher]

Against Certain lineups, now that Green is hitting peak conditioning, starting him could make sense.

He will definitely start next season, with or without Pierce on the team.

Speaking of conditioning, Green said he was gassed after the game yesterday I believe.

People hate on Doc but they don't know the whole story.

[CelticConcourse]

Against Certain lineups, now that Green is hitting peak conditioning, starting him could make sense.

He will definitely start next season, with or without Pierce on the team.

Speaking of conditioning, Green said he was gassed after the game yesterday I believe.

People hate on Doc but they don't know the whole story.

How could he not be? I say we rest him or play him limited minutes right before the playoffs

[tonyto3690]

You know, I used to hate him at the 4, but unless we're playing a dominant post player at the 4 (and there are how many of those exactly in the NBA?) Green does fine on the defensive end and their guys just can not stick with him.  He blows by them for dunks.

Green has a harder time scoring against 3s because some can actually stay in front of him and his post game is pretty on dimensional.

Consider this:
-How lackluster did Green's offense look in the beginning of the year
-How often did Green try to post up in the beginning of the year
-Recently with Green on a tear, how much has he been trying to post guys up?

Yes, part of that is just recovery but it's clear he's a long way away from being a good post player.  He's much better suited hitting corner 3s and blowing by bigs to the rim.



On top of that, with Green at the 4 and Pierce at the 3, teams have to pick which one to spend their best defensive swingman on.  Imagine Boozer guarding Green or Pierce.  We saw what happened when Lebron took Pierce and Battier tried to pick up Green.  Green destroyed him.

[Galeto]

Green's made massive improvements this season in his ability to drive the ball to the basket and finish.  He still goes right almost all the time and has no counter moves to get back to his right hand when defenses force him left but the faster pace and ball movement has really helped him.  He thrives when he gets the ball after building up speed and only needs a few dribbles to get to the rim.  Before this, he really wasn't that lethal a mismatch as a speed 4.  Now he's a huge weapon.  His best position is as a 4 next to Pierce taking slower big men off the dribble.  He needs to start.

[kgainez]

I like him starting because, with the line up we have, we can feature JET for the bench.
This is great because, he's been better after the all star break and now you give him a chance to really get in a rhythm and hot going into the finals. Trust me...we WILL need a Terry dagger 3 to win a series.

AB/Lee/PP/Jeff/KG and I think you make PP the facilitator and make KG and JG the scorers. Paul can get his anytime.

2nd unit
JET/ Crawford/ Jeff or whomever / Bass / Wilcox

[LarBrd33]

Some thoughts...

#1 - A lot of people like to say starting doesn't matter, but it sort of matters, doesn't it?  You get to set the tone early, you get a rhythm going straight out of warmups.  You aren't coming in cold and trying to single-handedly change the pace of the game.  I suspect it's harder to "let the game come to you" when your role is to come in cold and "BE AGGRESSIVE!" with limited offensive opportunities.  There are still games where Green plays less than 30 minutes and people act like he's "inconsistent", because he doesn't score double digits in those games.  A lot of that comes down to role. He's probably your 2nd best offensive player right now... if you bring him off the bench and give him 6-8 shots opportunities, do you really expect him to have the same kind of performance if you start him, play him 38 minutes and give him 15-20 shot opportunities?  It's silly.     

#2 - Green's been sensational.  In the 4 games he's started, he's averaged 24.5 points on 60% shooting... but even in his limited "bench" role, he averaged 15 points last month (51%/41%/86%) and this month he's averaging 17 points (48%/42%/78%) all while averaging about 31 minutes a night.  He's doing everything you want him to do and more... and yet people still act like he's "maddeningly inconsistent".  I don't get that at all.  Even James Harden had games where he couldn't put up double digits off the bench... you start him, make him a top option and give him consistent minutes... and "shockingly" he's averaging 10 more points a night.  Not saying Jeff would average 27 a night, but it's 19-20 is totally reasonable with him.

#3 - If you're concerned about starting Green at PF against bigger teams... I'd be in favor of just moving Pierce to SG in those games and starting Jeff at SF... match size with size.  I still wouldn't make my 3rd best player (and 2nd best offensive player) come off the bench.

#4 - We have a capable "microwave" 6th man already... his name is Jason Terry.  And it's not like we have a separate 2nd unit from our starters...  people act like starting Jeff Green would destroy our bench.  That's nonsense.  There's 48 minutes in a game.  If you start Pierce and Green together, it doesn't mean you have to rest them at the same time.  Come playoff time especially, Pierce is known to get about 39 minutes a night.  If Pierce and Green are ideally only getting about 10 minutes rest a night each... who says they need to take those 10 minutes at the same time.   

[kozlodoev]

I'm really surprised the Heat didn't start Battier for Haslem against us.

[kgainez]

Some thoughts...

#1 - A lot of people like to say starting doesn't matter, but it sort of matters, doesn't it?  You get to set the tone early, you get a rhythm going straight out of warmups.  You aren't coming in cold and trying to single-handedly change the pace of the game.  I suspect it's harder to "let the game come to you" when your role is to come in cold and "BE AGGRESSIVE!" with limited offensive opportunities.  There are still games where Green plays less than 30 minutes and people act like he's "inconsistent", because he doesn't score double digits in those games.  A lot of that comes down to role. He's probably your 2nd best offensive player right now... if you bring him off the bench and give him 6-8 shots opportunities, do you really expect him to have the same kind of performance if you start him, play him 38 minutes and give him 15-20 shot opportunities?  It's silly.     

#2 - Green's been sensational.  In the 4 games he's started, he's averaged 24.5 points on 60% shooting... but even in his limited "bench" role, he averaged 15 points last month (51%/41%/86%) and this month he's averaging 17 points (48%/42%/78%) all while averaging about 31 minutes a night.  He's doing everything you want him to do and more... and yet people still act like he's "maddeningly inconsistent".  I don't get that at all.  Even James Harden had games where he couldn't put up double digits off the bench... you start him, make him a top option and give him consistent minutes... and "shockingly" he's averaging 10 more points a night.  Not saying Jeff would average 27 a night, but it's 19-20 is totally reasonable with him.

#3 - If you're concerned about starting Green at PF against bigger teams... I'd be in favor of just moving Pierce to SG in those games and starting Jeff at SF... match size with size.  I still wouldn't make my 3rd best player (and 2nd best offensive player) come off the bench.

#4 - We have a capable "microwave" 6th man already... his name is Jason Terry.  And it's not like we have a separate 2nd unit from our starters...  people act like starting Jeff Green would destroy our bench.  That's nonsense.  There's 48 minutes in a game.  If you start Pierce and Green together, it doesn't mean you have to rest them at the same time.  Come playoff time especially, Pierce is known to get about 39 minutes a night.  If Pierce and Green are ideally only getting about 10 minutes rest a night each... who says they need to take those 10 minutes at the same time.

*rains Tommy Points on you*

[KG Living Legend]

yes we should

[ssspence]

Against Miami? Yep.

Not so much vs. most other teams....