Author Topic: Is it time to admit Rondo meant so much to this team?  (Read 3223 times)

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Re: Is it time to admit Rondo meant so much to this team?
« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2013, 12:11:15 PM »

Offline Spicoli

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I don't think Rondo is the answer for this team now, or in the future. I'm ready to be done with the Rondo era. He is a lazy player, and only plays hard when he wants to. I am not a fan of guys with this mentality. I like guys who play hard every night.

Re: Is it time to admit Rondo meant so much to this team?
« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2013, 12:19:54 PM »

Online LarBrd33

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No... It's merely time to admit that leandro Barbosa eased the blow of losing rondo... And now we don't have Barbosa's instant offense off the bench

Re: Is it time to admit Rondo meant so much to this team?
« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2013, 12:36:06 PM »

Online ImShakHeIsShaq

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First, I wanna start by saying I love RR the player, fell in love the end of the season b4 last!


I hate these threads, they are dumb to me... why would anyone who is a Celtics fan NOT want us to be better without RR, he is OUT FOR THE SEASON!!! Then when he comes back you want that team to be even better! It's about the Celtics, not RR!!!

So you are telling me we need a point guard? You don't say?! RR is great but I would stake a lot that with the team we have if we were to switch RR for someone like Dragic we would be fine, of course he is no RR but we don't NEED someone to do all that RR is capable of with the talent we have on this team! RR is a need but a bonus all in one with the team we have... we need a PG but we can lose some of what RR brings and still be fine!

Losing Barbosa was HUGE. Kevin, PP, and Doc pretty much said he was the straw the broke the camels back. You need to factor us going through more than losing RR (yes, he was the biggest loss no doubt)... losing 3 players for the entire season (KEY PLAYERS), wears on you mentally, it's like you can't win for losing. Look at any interview they did after Bosa went down and you could see and feel that they all thought that was the last straw.

Give us a real PG who can run an offense (or heck even just Bosa) and who knows how good we would be. Sure we need bigs (w/ or w/o RR), but not having anyone who can produce like Bosa could in RR's absence, made it extremely more difficult to win! Not only in Barbosa's play but his presence in the locker room, it's greatly missed.


I can't believe Celtics fans don't want us to win all b/c RR is out and b/c you want to be right and say "I told you so"... that makes you a RR fan FIRST and a Celtic fan only when RR can play. Nothing wrong with being a RR fan but like I have said before, there is something wrong when you don't want the team to win when your fav player is out. Again, I always wanted any team Shaq was on to win, even when he was injured b/c he would win by default just by being on the team...  yes, it means more if he could play but in the end a win is a win! You RR fans (be honest), don't want the team to win or be better without him and I can not understand it. It's crazy to me.
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Re: Is it time to admit Rondo meant so much to this team?
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2013, 12:37:46 PM »

Offline The MadLad

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this is a silly thread.

of course the celtics are not better without rondo. BUT, are they really worse off without him? i dont think so and the last 10 games prove that.
Rondos got MANY flaws to his game and personality. Leaders arent made, they are born and rondo isnt a natural born leader. you cant lead men who dont want to listen to you, and rondo has built that in boston in his tenure here. so the idea that he will lead the future of this team is flawed.
as for his skills, ...hes got a lot of them. but they are so unique, i personally dont think they fit well into this team and the franchises direction. more specifically, he sucks on man2man defense, holds the ball too long which throws off the timing on offense, cant shoot and is a prick to teammates/coaches.
IMO, there are a bunch of PG's that could step into the celtics offense now and we wouldnt lose a step.
and keep in mind...the celtics lifetime record without rondo is well above .500. its not just the last 10 games to take into account. the big picture is the last 5 years, when he doesnt play we still win. 

Re: Is it time to admit Rondo meant so much to this team?
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2013, 12:39:17 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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Yeah because, this team was playing so well when rondo was healthy.... ::) Listen, Rondo is a great player and will be missed come playoff time but lets not act like we weren't under 500 before the rondo injury.

Re: Is it time to admit Rondo meant so much to this team?
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2013, 12:42:11 PM »

Offline kgainez

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But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol

Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.

I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.

Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.

How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.

But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?

How does losing an All Star level talent not hurt your team?  There is nothing "fantastical" about it, it's plain to see what he can do and what we are missing.

How does having more talent not help against any team?

I swear, some people just have the shortest memories.  If we can't get that less talent makes your team worse I just don't know what we are talking about anymore.

You can't take a long view in your talk about our record and then say we are better after a 6 game winning streak.  The two statements don't jive. Remember when we went on a 6 game winning streak and then a 6 game losing streak?

time out.
my point, as I continue to say, is I don't think Rondo would've made a difference last night...in other games, sure? I think even against Denver, he would've helped.
The way in which we lost last night had 0 to do with having Rondo in my opinion.

also, don't sign me up on that 'plain' to see thing. best difference I've seen so far minus Rondo is the fun passes. oh the ball handling, but Rondo makes idiotic turnovers, too. and I think Jet and Jeff are kind of better handlers than we give them credit for. But at the same time, we don't have a back up PG.

Rondo is great. Record breaking. Cute passes. But his whole 'turn it on or turn it off' game is not cool with me. What I do like about this group is they (seem) to be on every night. I think we still had some fight last night. but something was off.

that's not to say the lakers couldn't have been playing extremely hard for dr. buss and we just happened to be on the other end of that...so there's that as well.

Rondo is a great PG. I like the way we've played minus him (up to this point -- it seems like Doc is trying to hard to reincarnate him, which I was scared of). I'm hoping when he returns, we can continue to do the ball movement thing.

but...we need some rebounding BIGS. THAT would'ved help against Lakers AND Denver.

I don't get some of your Rondo criticisms.  But anyways, with more talent you can win any game.  Notice the Celtics have been getting outrebounded for the last few seasons very consistently yet have had plenty of success.

Anyways, sure, I wish we had Sullinger and better rebounding bigs.  I would love that.  But basically blaming Rondo for that doesn't make sense.

I'm not blaming Rondo for that lol
I do blame Rondo for not pushing the ball up, typically looking of Jeff and Jet, passing lots to KG and PP, and passing up layups.
So that...

So you're saying these issues outweigh the positive contributions he brings to the team?

clarify what you mean when you say positive contributions. like what?

Being one of the best PGs in the league?  Playing at an All Star level?  Being the only player on our team that consistently has attacked the basket all season?

Is this a serious question?

I feel like the first 2 are intangible that do nothing during a game. he's slacked this entire season imo. what good is having an allstar or best pg if our record is still 20-23.

when chris paul goes out, yes the clippers absolutely suck. that's easy. when felton and kidd go out, the knicks struggle.

why does our team play just as well (and to some, better?). we are 8-3 after the injury, i don't care where we won, because the truth is, our 6 game winning streak should have at least been a 10 game one.

why is it that majority of the times Rondo gets a trip dub, we lose the game?
why do we have SUCH a great player on our team, who is the leader and we HAD a losing record? and then, why do we let him take off days and by saying playoff rondo is the best rondo. i don't like that.

I don't get it.

consistently attacking the basket? no. i disagree with that.
---
the dominate Rondo for past teams has been great because our talent level had been minimal. We NEEDED alot from him.

This year, not as much. this team is TALENTED. We don't need a dominate PG (or any position really) and we don't need the complicated offensive system that Doc did run. We have athleticism, creators, guys with multiple talents now that need to be given free reign. This is part of the reason I'm not mad at JET for chucking up shots...isn't that what we called him in for? He's a shooter. he's a creator. he can handle the ball. he's not a spot up shooter a la ray allen. he can play. he can run.

I would loovvveee Rondo to come back and adjust. I think it's a good thing he's out so now he can see the other teammates and come back and trust them, understand their strengths (because Rondo IS a genius and that's one thing I can give to you).

all im saying.

Re: Is it time to admit Rondo meant so much to this team?
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2013, 12:44:03 PM »

Offline kgainez

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First, I wanna start by saying I love RR the player, fell in love the end of the season b4 last!


I hate these threads, they are dumb to me... why would anyone who is a Celtics fan NOT want us to be better without RR, he is OUT FOR THE SEASON!!! Then when he comes back you want that team to be even better! It's about the Celtics, not RR!!!

So you are telling me we need a point guard? You don't say?! RR is great but I would stake a lot that with the team we have if we were to switch RR for someone like Dragic we would be fine, of course he is no RR but we don't NEED someone to do all that RR is capable of with the talent we have on this team! RR is a need but a bonus all in one with the team we have... we need a PG but we can lose some of what RR brings and still be fine!

Losing Barbosa was HUGE. Kevin, PP, and Doc pretty much said he was the straw the broke the camels back. You need to factor us going through more than losing RR (yes, he was the biggest loss no doubt)... losing 3 players for the entire season (KEY PLAYERS), wears on you mentally, it's like you can't win for losing. Look at any interview they did after Bosa went down and you could see and feel that they all thought that was the last straw.

Give us a real PG who can run an offense (or heck even just Bosa) and who knows how good we would be. Sure we need bigs (w/ or w/o RR), but not having anyone who can produce like Bosa could in RR's absence, made it extremely more difficult to win! Not only in Barbosa's play but his presence in the locker room, it's greatly missed.


I can't believe Celtics fans don't want us to win all b/c RR is out and b/c you want to be right and say "I told you so"... that makes you a RR fan FIRST and a Celtic fan only when RR can play. Nothing wrong with being a RR fan but like I have said before, there is something wrong when you don't want the team to win when your fav player is out. Again, I always wanted any team Shaq was on to win, even when he was injured b/c he would win by default just by being on the team...  yes, it means more if he could play but in the end a win is a win! You RR fans (be honest), don't want the team to win or be better without him and I can not understand it. It's crazy to me.

welp...
u get a TP

Re: Is it time to admit Rondo meant so much to this team?
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2013, 12:45:20 PM »

Offline kgainez

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Yeah because, this team was playing so well when rondo was healthy.... ::) Listen, Rondo is a great player and will be missed come playoff time but lets not act like we weren't under 500 before the rondo injury.

and then this

Re: Is it time to admit Rondo meant so much to this team?
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2013, 12:48:50 PM »

Offline ssspence

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They're currently the 7th seed in the weaker Eastern Conference. The team was not particularly good with Rondo, and isn't particularly good without him.

Re: Is it time to admit Rondo meant so much to this team?
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2013, 12:50:28 PM »

Offline The MadLad

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I would loovvveee Rondo to come back and adjust. I think it's a good thing he's out so now he can see the other teammates and come back and trust them, understand their strengths (because Rondo IS a genius and that's one thing I can give to you).

all im saying.
/quote]

exactly. but unfortunately, rondo has already shown that he isnt mature enough to do this. his ego will not allow him to adjust like this. and again, hes got a history of being immature from kentucky to boston. so, imo, hes got to go.

Re: Is it time to admit Rondo meant so much to this team?
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2013, 12:51:00 PM »

Offline action781

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Rondo can't play center and guard Howard as effectively as Bass can.
Exactly.  When Dwight gets 7 offensive rebounds that lead to baskets, oh, there's the 14 points that we lost by.  I was really disappointed that Doc didn't play Jason Collins more last night.  More confused than disappointed actually.  I felt that was a no brainer.


Rondo is also a very good rebounder so that would've helped a lot but we've needed help in that department for a while
Rondo isn't going to keep Dwight from getting rebounds.

--

As for the OP, it is not time yet to admit because I still feel that we've been playing better lately than pre-injury.  Sometime between April 20 and mid-May will be the time when it becomes clear how much Rondo meant to this team.  I *hope* it doesn't, but I expect that it will.
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Re: Is it time to admit Rondo meant so much to this team?
« Reply #56 on: February 21, 2013, 12:53:15 PM »

Online Celtics18

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First, I wanna start by saying I love RR the player, fell in love the end of the season b4 last!


I hate these threads, they are dumb to me... why would anyone who is a Celtics fan NOT want us to be better without RR, he is OUT FOR THE SEASON!!! Then when he comes back you want that team to be even better! It's about the Celtics, not RR!!!

So you are telling me we need a point guard? You don't say?! RR is great but I would stake a lot that with the team we have if we were to switch RR for someone like Dragic we would be fine, of course he is no RR but we don't NEED someone to do all that RR is capable of with the talent we have on this team! RR is a need but a bonus all in one with the team we have... we need a PG but we can lose some of what RR brings and still be fine!

Losing Barbosa was HUGE. Kevin, PP, and Doc pretty much said he was the straw the broke the camels back. You need to factor us going through more than losing RR (yes, he was the biggest loss no doubt)... losing 3 players for the entire season (KEY PLAYERS), wears on you mentally, it's like you can't win for losing. Look at any interview they did after Bosa went down and you could see and feel that they all thought that was the last straw.

Give us a real PG who can run an offense (or heck even just Bosa) and who knows how good we would be. Sure we need bigs (w/ or w/o RR), but not having anyone who can produce like Bosa could in RR's absence, made it extremely more difficult to win! Not only in Barbosa's play but his presence in the locker room, it's greatly missed.


I can't believe Celtics fans don't want us to win all b/c RR is out and b/c you want to be right and say "I told you so"... that makes you a RR fan FIRST and a Celtic fan only when RR can play. Nothing wrong with being a RR fan but like I have said before, there is something wrong when you don't want the team to win when your fav player is out. Again, I always wanted any team Shaq was on to win, even when he was injured b/c he would win by default just by being on the team...  yes, it means more if he could play but in the end a win is a win! You RR fans (be honest), don't want the team to win or be better without him and I can not understand it. It's crazy to me.

I won't speak for all Celtics fans who are big fans of Rajon Rondo, but, personally, I absolutely want this team to continue to win without Rondo.  Furthermore, I think that this team can still continue to be very good without Rondo for the remainder of this season.

My issue is  that many fans seem to take the six game winning streak that the team went on without our injured point guard as some kind of confirmation that we are better of without him in the long run.  I don't think we are better off without him in the long run, and if we were to deal him away for lesser players in an effort to patch up this season, I personally think that would be short-sighted. 

I'll continue to root for the 2012-2013 Boston Celtics, but I also want to see a long term future built in part around Rajon Rondo.  I don't see how that makes me a bad fan. 
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Re: Is it time to admit Rondo meant so much to this team?
« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2013, 12:55:14 PM »

Offline kgainez

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I would loovvveee Rondo to come back and adjust. I think it's a good thing he's out so now he can see the other teammates and come back and trust them, understand their strengths (because Rondo IS a genius and that's one thing I can give to you).

all im saying.
/quote]

exactly. but unfortunately, rondo has already shown that he isnt mature enough to do this. his ego will not allow him to adjust like this. and again, hes got a history of being immature from kentucky to boston. so, imo, hes got to go.

i'm not going that far lol

Re: Is it time to admit Rondo meant so much to this team?
« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2013, 12:55:53 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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And ladies and gentlemen, we are back to earth...

If a new fan walked in here couple weeks ago, they would think Rondo was the cancer on the team and I think it's a [dang] shame how people (his haters) unfairly criticize the guy that has given us years of briliancy just because we were in the lala land of 8 games winning streak or so after he went down.  The thought that we are better without Rondo is ludicurous. 

I saw a lot of holes in last nights' game and the game before that Rondo would've filled.  Just because whole bunch of role players found motivation and started playing the way they're suppose to play after Rondo's injury didn't mean we're better without him.  He is still our best play and if you ask me, you don't trade a special player like Rondo

No...I don't think so

I think its a sign that losing three players (or 1/4 of out active roster) for the season is hard to recover from.

We lost Rondo but we were doing fine and winning games pretty comfortably since then bercause we still had a nice guard rotation and solid depth in the backcourt.  Barbosa was playing nice defense and his ability to attack really helped us put pressure on opposing defense.  Once he went down as well it really hurt...now our only true scorer in the backcourt is Terry, and that's not enough on a team that already struggled scoring to begin with.

As soon as Barbosa went down I saw the change. We still played good D, but our offense just didn't look like it could keep up anymore.  If we still had Rondo and lost Barbosa then we'd be fine, but losing both hurts our offense way too much.  It puts a lot of pressure on Terry, Green, Pierce and KG to carry us on the offensive end of the floor, and  we have clearly struggles (even in the win/s) since that time.

We need another scorer desperately, and one who is still young enough to have the physical condition to being it every day.  I think Josh Smith is best out of all the solutions were seen so Dar (T-Wil can help resolve the guard depth issue) and I have to say its start to get dangerously close to the point where I would trade anything I need to I'd it means getting Smith back.

Would I dangle Rondo and see if they'd bite? Maybe but is we hessirant that Smith at not re-sign without Rondo (one of the biggest reasons he wants to come to Boston).


Re: Is it time to admit Rondo meant so much to this team?
« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2013, 12:57:54 PM »

Offline TripleOT

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The winning streak post-Rondo injury means very little to me.  NBA teams run hot and cold, and the Cs happened to run hot post-Rondo injury.  This is the third time the team had a hot streak this season.  Now, it looks like the Celtics are heading into their third cold streak of the season.  This is what flawed, middling teams do in the NBA. 

The Cs were heading a into seven out of eight home games streak after the ATL game where Rondo was injured, with the only road game a short jump to Toronto.  The Heat and Nuggets victories were stellar, but the luster of the post-Rondo team is certainly dulled when the same vanquished Nugs and Lakers handled the Rondo-less Celtics in their arenas. 

Besides Pierce and occasionally Jeff Green, no one on the Celtics can initiate offense.  Add that to the major flaws of the team (no interior strength, horrible rebounding) and that makes for a lot of losses, especially on the road, where there's going to be a large FT disparity when the Cs are shooting jumpers and getting dominated in the paint.

You can't win many NBA games when the other team scores 20 or more points in the paint and gets way more FTs than your team. If this Celtics team doesn't make a move, I'll be surprised if it wins 44 games.     

 

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