Author Topic: Marc Stein's latest on Smith  (Read 7312 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Marc Stein's latest on Smith
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2013, 08:50:52 AM »

Offline wdleehi

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34023
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • Basketball is Newtonian Physics
Trading Rondo for Josh Smith is a non-starter for me. No point to it, doesn't make us favorites and you get the less player long term.

I guess I just think that paying Smith what I think he's worth, and max doesn't end up being a big difference in overall dollars and flexibility. Not when you're also paying Rajon Rondo his market rate on his next contract and have our other salary commitments.


That's the area of the team I really want Ainge to attack.  Trim one or two of them can be a huge bust for the team in the future.
Yeah, but you can do that after you land Smith as needed. Getting the higher end talent is always the hardest part.

I still think that Dons is right and the C's just don't match up with the Hawks as partners. But Danny should absolutely make sure he's still an available option, you never know if the Bucks/Suns get cold feet and Ferry caves for a lesser package.


I don't see him as high enough of an end.  I see him more as a finishing touch. 


If the Celtics can trade a package around Green, it makes sense. 


If it takes Pierce (or Rondo), it does not make sense.

Re: Marc Stein's latest on Smith
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2013, 08:57:41 AM »

Offline rondohondo

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10756
  • Tommy Points: 1196
Trading Rondo for Josh Smith is a non-starter for me. No point to it, doesn't make us favorites and you get the less player long term.

I guess I just think that paying Smith what I think he's worth, and max doesn't end up being a big difference in overall dollars and flexibility. Not when you're also paying Rajon Rondo his market rate on his next contract and have our other salary commitments.


That's the area of the team I really want Ainge to attack.  Trim one or two of them can be a huge bust for the team in the future.
Yeah, but you can do that after you land Smith as needed. Getting the higher end talent is always the hardest part.

I still think that Dons is right and the C's just don't match up with the Hawks as partners. But Danny should absolutely make sure he's still an available option, you never know if the Bucks/Suns get cold feet and Ferry caves for a lesser package.


I don't see him as high enough of an end.  I see him more as a finishing touch. 


If the Celtics can trade a package around Green, it makes sense. 


If it takes Pierce (or Rondo), it does not make sense.

so who's high end then ?

I have in no particular order

Aldridge
Love
Dwight
 Kyrie
Durant
Westbrook
Paul George
Harden
Wade
Lebron
Bosh
Camerlo
Deron Williams
CP3
Griffin

I am sure there are more , but we aren't getting any of those players for our assets

Re: Marc Stein's latest on Smith
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2013, 09:00:36 AM »

Offline wdleehi

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34023
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • Basketball is Newtonian Physics
Trading Rondo for Josh Smith is a non-starter for me. No point to it, doesn't make us favorites and you get the less player long term.

I guess I just think that paying Smith what I think he's worth, and max doesn't end up being a big difference in overall dollars and flexibility. Not when you're also paying Rajon Rondo his market rate on his next contract and have our other salary commitments.


That's the area of the team I really want Ainge to attack.  Trim one or two of them can be a huge bust for the team in the future.
Yeah, but you can do that after you land Smith as needed. Getting the higher end talent is always the hardest part.

I still think that Dons is right and the C's just don't match up with the Hawks as partners. But Danny should absolutely make sure he's still an available option, you never know if the Bucks/Suns get cold feet and Ferry caves for a lesser package.


I don't see him as high enough of an end.  I see him more as a finishing touch. 


If the Celtics can trade a package around Green, it makes sense. 


If it takes Pierce (or Rondo), it does not make sense.

so who's high end then ?

I have in no particular order

Aldridge
Love
Dwight
 Kyrie
Durant
Westbrook
Paul George
Harden
Wade
Lebron
Bosh
Camerlo
Deron Williams
CP3
Griffin

I am sure there are more , but we aren't getting any of those players for our assets


Agreed.


That's why I want the Celtics to start building real assets.  A usually the best assets are young and cheap.  Teams with flexibility and a attractive player already in place.


The Celtics can be that with a healthy Rondo in the near future. 

Re: Marc Stein's latest on Smith
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2013, 09:13:37 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18699
  • Tommy Points: 1818
I'd strongly consider a Rondo for Smith trade, slightly no brainer to me, particularly if on the win now camp without sacrificing the future that much.

Whatever Smith is comanding contract wise, won't be bad if you plan on competing for the next few years anyways, and still over the cap. Then you'll have Smith, Green, Lee, and Sullinger on your roster with plenty of cap room... not that bad of a place to being the next facet of our journey, and by then Smith's contract won't be a long one.

Re: Marc Stein's latest on Smith
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2013, 09:18:16 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3558
  • Tommy Points: 182
Trading Rondo for Josh Smith is a non-starter for me. No point to it, doesn't make us favorites and you get the less player long term.

I guess I just think that paying Smith what I think he's worth, and max doesn't end up being a big difference in overall dollars and flexibility. Not when you're also paying Rajon Rondo his market rate on his next contract and have our other salary commitments.


That's the area of the team I really want Ainge to attack.  Trim one or two of them can be a huge bust for the team in the future.
Yeah, but you can do that after you land Smith as needed. Getting the higher end talent is always the hardest part.

I still think that Dons is right and the C's just don't match up with the Hawks as partners. But Danny should absolutely make sure he's still an available option, you never know if the Bucks/Suns get cold feet and Ferry caves for a lesser package.


I don't see him as high enough of an end.  I see him more as a finishing touch. 


If the Celtics can trade a package around Green, it makes sense. 


If it takes Pierce (or Rondo), it does not make sense.

so who's high end then ?

I have in no particular order

Aldridge
Love
Dwight
 Kyrie
Durant
Westbrook
Paul George
Harden
Wade
Lebron
Bosh
Camerlo
Deron Williams
CP3
Griffin

I am sure there are more , but we aren't getting any of those players for our assets


Agreed.


That's why I want the Celtics to start building real assets.  A usually the best assets are young and cheap.  Teams with flexibility and a attractive player already in place.


The Celtics can be that with a healthy Rondo in the near future.

wdleehi I often agree with you but this time not at all!

The 2014-15 team will start with $52 million in contracts with out PP, so throw that year out and now we start in 2015 to rebuild?

Having a bunch of really good players makes it much easier to trade for an all-star, than having a bunch of crap.

If Danny follows your plan than IMO we will not have a contending team before 2020, this is the time now we can cut that time drastically.

Re: Marc Stein's latest on Smith
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2013, 09:22:55 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18699
  • Tommy Points: 1818

Re: Marc Stein's latest on Smith
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2013, 09:23:15 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
Trading Rondo for Josh Smith is a non-starter for me. No point to it, doesn't make us favorites and you get the less player long term.

I guess I just think that paying Smith what I think he's worth, and max doesn't end up being a big difference in overall dollars and flexibility. Not when you're also paying Rajon Rondo his market rate on his next contract and have our other salary commitments.


That's the area of the team I really want Ainge to attack.  Trim one or two of them can be a huge bust for the team in the future.
Yeah, but you can do that after you land Smith as needed. Getting the higher end talent is always the hardest part.

I still think that Dons is right and the C's just don't match up with the Hawks as partners. But Danny should absolutely make sure he's still an available option, you never know if the Bucks/Suns get cold feet and Ferry caves for a lesser package.


I don't see him as high enough of an end.  I see him more as a finishing touch. 


If the Celtics can trade a package around Green, it makes sense. 


If it takes Pierce (or Rondo), it does not make sense.

  How much longer do you expect PP to play (and play at a high level)? At this point in time is it really that much better to trade Green than Pierce?

Re: Marc Stein's latest on Smith
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2013, 09:24:49 AM »

Offline wdleehi

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34023
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • Basketball is Newtonian Physics
Trading Rondo for Josh Smith is a non-starter for me. No point to it, doesn't make us favorites and you get the less player long term.

I guess I just think that paying Smith what I think he's worth, and max doesn't end up being a big difference in overall dollars and flexibility. Not when you're also paying Rajon Rondo his market rate on his next contract and have our other salary commitments.


That's the area of the team I really want Ainge to attack.  Trim one or two of them can be a huge bust for the team in the future.
Yeah, but you can do that after you land Smith as needed. Getting the higher end talent is always the hardest part.

I still think that Dons is right and the C's just don't match up with the Hawks as partners. But Danny should absolutely make sure he's still an available option, you never know if the Bucks/Suns get cold feet and Ferry caves for a lesser package.


I don't see him as high enough of an end.  I see him more as a finishing touch. 


If the Celtics can trade a package around Green, it makes sense. 


If it takes Pierce (or Rondo), it does not make sense.

so who's high end then ?

I have in no particular order

Aldridge
Love
Dwight
 Kyrie
Durant
Westbrook
Paul George
Harden
Wade
Lebron
Bosh
Camerlo
Deron Williams
CP3
Griffin

I am sure there are more , but we aren't getting any of those players for our assets


Agreed.


That's why I want the Celtics to start building real assets.  A usually the best assets are young and cheap.  Teams with flexibility and a attractive player already in place.


The Celtics can be that with a healthy Rondo in the near future.

wdleehi I often agree with you but this time not at all!

The 2014-15 team will start with $52 million in contracts with out PP, so throw that year out and now we start in 2015 to rebuild?

Having a bunch of really good players makes it much easier to trade for an all-star, than having a bunch of crap.

If Danny follows your plan than IMO we will not have a contending team before 2020, this is the time now we can cut that time drastically.


Which is why I want to see the Celtics trim those other contracts.  Those 3 to 4 year contracts of the role players.  Get that flexibility sooner, not later.



Do not follow the Knick's plan post Ewing.  You know where they traded him for Glen Rice's longer term max like deal because they were already over the cap. 


Enjoy the KG/Pierce playoff team now.  Work the rest of the team fit those two's leaving schedule. 


Do not add overpriced long term "nice" players and think they are some future contender.

Re: Marc Stein's latest on Smith
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2013, 09:25:52 AM »

Offline rondohondo

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10756
  • Tommy Points: 1196
I'd do this on a heartbeat.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=bjhu9do

Now that's a trade I'd have to strongly consider , great shooter and rim protector , hmmmmm

Re: Marc Stein's latest on Smith
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2013, 09:26:32 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
I'd strongly consider a Rondo for Smith trade, slightly no brainer to me, particularly if on the win now camp without sacrificing the future that much.

Whatever Smith is comanding contract wise, won't be bad if you plan on competing for the next few years anyways, and still over the cap. Then you'll have Smith, Green, Lee, and Sullinger on your roster with plenty of cap room... not that bad of a place to being the next facet of our journey, and by then Smith's contract won't be a long one.

  That's assuming he signs with Boston when you've traded away the main reason he wanted to play here.

Re: Marc Stein's latest on Smith
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2013, 09:27:11 AM »

Offline wdleehi

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34023
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • Basketball is Newtonian Physics


  How much longer do you expect PP to play (and play at a high level)? At this point in time is it really that much better to trade Green than Pierce?


Pierce at the end of his career is still better the Green.


Green is still a nice player that is making to much money on a team that has to do a major turnover in the near future. 

Re: Marc Stein's latest on Smith
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2013, 09:27:58 AM »

Offline feckless

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1202
  • Tommy Points: 93
Other than the occasional game (usually it's only a quarter or 2), when Smith gets motivated, PP is still the better player.  Picking up J. Smith takes us backwards!
Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum, forget most, remember some, don't turn none away.   Townes Van Zandt

Re: Marc Stein's latest on Smith
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2013, 09:28:11 AM »

Offline wdleehi

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34023
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • Basketball is Newtonian Physics
I'd do this on a heartbeat.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=bjhu9do


Any move that makes Josh Smith the best player on the Celtics in the near future is bad. 

Re: Marc Stein's latest on Smith
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2013, 09:28:43 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18699
  • Tommy Points: 1818
I'd do this on a heartbeat.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=bjhu9do


Any move that makes Josh Smith the best player on the Celtics in the near future is bad.

Garnett is the best player. Enough said.

Re: Marc Stein's latest on Smith
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2013, 09:30:57 AM »

Offline wdleehi

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34023
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • Basketball is Newtonian Physics
I'd do this on a heartbeat.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=bjhu9do


Any move that makes Josh Smith the best player on the Celtics in the near future is bad.

Garnett is the best player. Enough said.

Now. 


But you have just committed to giving Smith the max deal.  When KG leaves, the Celtics best player is Smith.  Smith and Green.  The Celtics are not even close the the Hawks level.