Author Topic: I like Bradley as a starting PG moving forward  (Read 2958 times)

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Re: I like Bradley as a starting PG moving forward
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2013, 12:57:48 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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I agree with all of your points LarBrd33.  It's not that I don't like Rondo -- I do -- but I just agree that we have a very good player in Bradley who is very worthy of NBA minutes right now and his best skill is defense, but can't do such as well as he can if he's guarding SGs instead of PGs.  So why not trade away the PG who can get us more back at other positions, which is Rondo, when Rondo's best skill has proved to not be necessary for a championship team.

Rondo's best skills--passing, defense, rebounding, scoring when he needs to, having the ability to take over big ball games like only a handful of players in the league can--have led our team to within a game of the NBA championship and to within a game of the Eastern Conference championship in the last three years. 

He's being re-written as a one-trick pony around here lately.  This simply is not the case.  When you have an elite talent in the league at a bargain price, you keep him. 

Memories are awfully short on this forum these days.  People are acting like the 38 games that he played in to start this season (not all of them as awful as they are frequently made out to be, by the way) define what he's done for this team over the course of the last four seasons. 
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Re: I like Bradley as a starting PG moving forward
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2013, 01:29:28 AM »

Offline lightspeed5

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Two things that are slightly conflicting.

#1 - Is there a position more overrated in this league than point guard?  You clearly don't need an elite point guard to win a championship.  In fact, I just went back year-by-year to see if there was a single team that won a title due to having an "Elite Distributor".  SHocking... none of them do.  I had to go back to 1990 to find a single champion who had a PG averaging over 8 assists... and not surprisingly that was Isiah Thomas (who also happened to be the Pistons leading scorer):

2012 - Mario Chalmers - 11 points, 4 assists
2011 - Washed up 37 year old Jason Kidd - 9 points 7 assists
2010 - Derek Fisher - 10 points, 2.5 assists
2009 - Derek Fisher - 10 points, 2.8 assists
2008 - 4th wheel 22 year old rondo - 11 points, 7 assists
2007 - Parker - 20 points, 5.5 assists
2006 - J-Will - 9 points, 4 assists
2005 - Parker - 17 points, 4 assists
2004 - Billups - 16 points, 6 assists
2003 - Parker - 15 points, 3.5 assists
2002 - Fisher - 10 points, 3 assists
2001 - Fisher - 13 points, 3 assists
2000 - Ron Harper, I guess -   8 points 3 assists
1999 - Avery Johnson  - 12 points, 7.4 assists
1998 - Ron Harper  6 points 2 assists
1997 - Ron Harper -  7 points, 3 assists
1996 - Ron Harper - 7 points, 3 assists
1995 - Kenny Smith - 10 points 4 assists
1994 - Kenny Smith - 10 points, 4 assists
1993 - BJ Armstrong - 11 points 3 assists
1992 - John Paxson - 8 points, 3 assists
1991 - John Paxson - 8 points, 3 assists
1990 - Isiah Thomas - 20.5 points, 8 assists

... So traditional point guards don't mean crap in this league.   What's also not surprising about that list is that essentially EVERY SINGLE TEAM had an elite scorer and an elite big man... or in some instances just an elite big man.   Whether it's Dirk + Tyson Chandler... or KG + Pierce... or Shaq + Kobe.  Or Hakeem + Drexler.  Wade + Shaq.  Duncan + Parker/Ginoboli.  Kobe + Pau.   Even last year, you have to count Bosh as an elite Big to go with LeBron.  That is, if you aren't just counting LeBron... who is 6'9 and 270... qualifies as a big most decades. 

You want to talk about that flukey Pistons team?  Fine... they had two elite bigs (Wallace Brothers)... don't forget that Ben Wallace averaged 14 boards, 2.3 blocks and 2 steals in the playoffs.  Rip Hamilton averaged 22 points in the playoffs... Billups was important, but bigs and scoring win titles.

Even the freakin Chicago Bulls... yes, they had two of the greatest players of all time (Jordan and Pippen), but they won their first 3 with all-star big man Horace Grant... and they won their next 3 with Dennis Rodman.  Certainly not a traditional "big man", but Rodman was a two time defensive player of the year at the PF position and the best rebounder in the league.  What more do you need to qualify as an "elite big".




#2 -  Conflicting with above is the fact that the league is evolving into a small-man's game.  Scoring point guards are all over the place.  You may in fact have a team win a title with a Derrick Rose leading the way... or a Russell Westbrook as a key scorer.  Clearly this year TOny Parker is a driving force for the Spurs offense (averaging 21 points).  Chris Paul is a mighty distributor, but he's also his team's 1st or 2nd option on offense.  Kyrie Irving is the hottest young star in the league (dropping 24 a night).    If you cant go out and get one of those dynamic scoring point guards, it seems a solid defensive point guard would be nice to have in your arsenal.  I like Bradley as our starting PG.  Sure, we probably aren't winning a title unless he's our 5th best starter, but I'm comfortable focusing on the other positions.  Trade Rondo when the package is right.

Side note:  I'm sure Ainge realizes this.  Part of the reason he's been trying to trade Rondo every single year.
thats the old NBA where centers were over 7 feet tall and reigned supreme... the new NBA has elite point guards on half the teams.

Re: I like Bradley as a starting PG moving forward
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2013, 04:45:31 AM »

Offline Who

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I think it's too early to say what Bradley is or isn't.

Keep Rondo and Bradley together. Let them play a full season together. Then make a decision about whether Bradley can be the long term starting SG or not.

No need to rush the decision.

Re: I like Bradley as a starting PG moving forward
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2013, 04:50:54 AM »

Offline Who

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Bradley is fine as a starting PG if you've got a wing player e.g. Iguodala, LeBron, Wade etc to set up others.  Right now Pierce has been playing that role, and Lee and Terry also pick up some of the ball-handling duties.
Which will be incredibly difficult to find once Pierce leaves.

There are only a handful of guys in the league who can do this well enough to make this work.

Re: I like Bradley as a starting PG moving forward
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2013, 05:37:50 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Two things that are slightly conflicting.

#1 - Is there a position more overrated in this league than point guard?  You clearly don't need an elite point guard to win a championship.  In fact, I just went back year-by-year to see if there was a single team that won a title due to having an "Elite Distributor".  SHocking... none of them do.  I had to go back to 1990 to find a single champion who had a PG averaging over 8 assists... and not surprisingly that was Isiah Thomas (who also happened to be the Pistons leading scorer):

2012 - Mario Chalmers - 11 points, 4 assists
2011 - Washed up 37 year old Jason Kidd - 9 points 7 assists
2010 - Derek Fisher - 10 points, 2.5 assists
2009 - Derek Fisher - 10 points, 2.8 assists
2008 - 4th wheel 22 year old rondo - 11 points, 7 assists
2007 - Parker - 20 points, 5.5 assists
2006 - J-Will - 9 points, 4 assists
2005 - Parker - 17 points, 4 assists
2004 - Billups - 16 points, 6 assists
2003 - Parker - 15 points, 3.5 assists
2002 - Fisher - 10 points, 3 assists
2001 - Fisher - 13 points, 3 assists
2000 - Ron Harper, I guess -   8 points 3 assists
1999 - Avery Johnson  - 12 points, 7.4 assists
1998 - Ron Harper  6 points 2 assists
1997 - Ron Harper -  7 points, 3 assists
1996 - Ron Harper - 7 points, 3 assists
1995 - Kenny Smith - 10 points 4 assists
1994 - Kenny Smith - 10 points, 4 assists
1993 - BJ Armstrong - 11 points 3 assists
1992 - John Paxson - 8 points, 3 assists
1991 - John Paxson - 8 points, 3 assists
1990 - Isiah Thomas - 20.5 points, 8 assists

  If Rondo (or Ray or Perk) had been healthier in the finals we'd have won the title in 2010. Obviously we can win a title with Rondo. Since we have him and we've seen we can be contenders with him the question you should be asking is whether we're more  likely to win a title with that "2010 model" around Rondo or to win a title by getting the Jordan/LeBron/TD/Hakeem/Shaq/Kobe type of player that those teams had. Because, sure, if you can get one of those players then I'd agree we don't need Rondo.

Re: I like Bradley as a starting PG moving forward
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2013, 05:51:28 AM »

Offline clover

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If Danny gets his way, young Mr. Bledsoe could be his starting PG for years to come.  (Bradley could start at the 2 and be Bledsoe's backup.)

Re: I like Bradley as a starting PG moving forward
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2013, 06:54:07 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Bradley is not a PG, so it's really doesn't matter what you like.  Doc tried this last year and it was brutal but he became a player at SG.

Re: I like Bradley as a starting PG moving forward
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2013, 08:03:58 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Bradley is not a pg, his handle is very suspect
he's not a SG either.  But at least at PG he is a better defensive matchup for a league flooded with scoring PGs.  There aren't a lot of elite SG's in this league anymore.  It's like Dwayne Wade, James Harden and that's pretty much it.

So either play Bradley as a starting PG... or trade him to some other team looking for a role player.  In this league you don't necessarily need a ball-dominant point guard anyways.  Most champions don't have one.

Kobe Bryant would love to read that.



I guess Im still in the minority in thinking that Bradley is a terrible player. His offense is atrocious, he started off great last night and then just played the same Bradley way through the rest of it. Cant take away his pestering defense but he has missed more layups this year then an entire season of 3 and 4th grade rec ball.

Re: I like Bradley as a starting PG moving forward
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2013, 08:17:35 AM »

Offline rickyfan3.0...

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A point guard that can't dribble or pass? Nice.

Re: I like Bradley as a starting PG moving forward
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2013, 08:21:55 AM »

Online Birdman

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Why does everyone love Bradley?? Good defense player but thats it.

Re: I like Bradley as a starting PG moving forward
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2013, 08:26:47 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Two things that are slightly conflicting.

#1 - Is there a position more overrated in this league than point guard?  You clearly don't need an elite point guard to win a championship.  In fact, I just went back year-by-year to see if there was a single team that won a title due to having an "Elite Distributor".  SHocking... none of them do.  I had to go back to 1990 to find a single champion who had a PG averaging over 8 assists... and not surprisingly that was Isiah Thomas (who also happened to be the Pistons leading scorer):

2012 - Mario Chalmers - 11 points, 4 assists
2011 - Washed up 37 year old Jason Kidd - 9 points 7 assists
2010 - Derek Fisher - 10 points, 2.5 assists
2009 - Derek Fisher - 10 points, 2.8 assists
2008 - 4th wheel 22 year old rondo - 11 points, 7 assists
2007 - Parker - 20 points, 5.5 assists
2006 - J-Will - 9 points, 4 assists
2005 - Parker - 17 points, 4 assists
2004 - Billups - 16 points, 6 assists
2003 - Parker - 15 points, 3.5 assists
2002 - Fisher - 10 points, 3 assists
2001 - Fisher - 13 points, 3 assists
2000 - Ron Harper, I guess -   8 points 3 assists
1999 - Avery Johnson  - 12 points, 7.4 assists
1998 - Ron Harper  6 points 2 assists
1997 - Ron Harper -  7 points, 3 assists
1996 - Ron Harper - 7 points, 3 assists
1995 - Kenny Smith - 10 points 4 assists
1994 - Kenny Smith - 10 points, 4 assists
1993 - BJ Armstrong - 11 points 3 assists
1992 - John Paxson - 8 points, 3 assists
1991 - John Paxson - 8 points, 3 assists
1990 - Isiah Thomas - 20.5 points, 8 assists

... So traditional point guards don't mean crap in this league.   What's also not surprising about that list is that essentially EVERY SINGLE TEAM had an elite scorer and an elite big man... or in some instances just an elite big man.   Whether it's Dirk + Tyson Chandler... or KG + Pierce... or Shaq + Kobe.  Or Hakeem + Drexler.  Wade + Shaq.  Duncan + Parker/Ginoboli.  Kobe + Pau.   Even last year, you have to count Bosh as an elite Big to go with LeBron.  That is, if you aren't just counting LeBron... who is 6'9 and 270... qualifies as a big most decades. 

You want to talk about that flukey Pistons team?  Fine... they had two elite bigs (Wallace Brothers)... don't forget that Ben Wallace averaged 14 boards, 2.3 blocks and 2 steals in the playoffs.  Rip Hamilton averaged 22 points in the playoffs... Billups was important, but bigs and scoring win titles.

Even the freakin Chicago Bulls... yes, they had two of the greatest players of all time (Jordan and Pippen), but they won their first 3 with all-star big man Horace Grant... and they won their next 3 with Dennis Rodman.  Certainly not a traditional "big man", but Rodman was a two time defensive player of the year at the PF position and the best rebounder in the league.  What more do you need to qualify as an "elite big".




#2 -  Conflicting with above is the fact that the league is evolving into a small-man's game.  Scoring point guards are all over the place.  You may in fact have a team win a title with a Derrick Rose leading the way... or a Russell Westbrook as a key scorer.  Clearly this year TOny Parker is a driving force for the Spurs offense (averaging 21 points).  Chris Paul is a mighty distributor, but he's also his team's 1st or 2nd option on offense.  Kyrie Irving is the hottest young star in the league (dropping 24 a night).    If you cant go out and get one of those dynamic scoring point guards, it seems a solid defensive point guard would be nice to have in your arsenal.  I like Bradley as our starting PG.  Sure, we probably aren't winning a title unless he's our 5th best starter, but I'm comfortable focusing on the other positions.  Trade Rondo when the package is right.

Side note:  I'm sure Ainge realizes this.  Part of the reason he's been trying to trade Rondo every single year.

You're right that over the past 23 years, a vast majority of championship teams haven't been led by great point guards--the only exceptions being the Spurs with Tony Parker, Isiah's Piston's back in 1990, and Billups (sort of) for the 2004 Pistons. 

I think you have hit on something with point #2, though; with the league being so point guard dominant right now, that seems bound to change some time in the near future.  Luckily, we already have an elite point guard.
The league may be PG driven right now, but those PG driven teams still haven't won a title and the clear favorite this year is once again the Heat with Chalmers once again their PG. 
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Re: I like Bradley as a starting PG moving forward
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2013, 08:29:43 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I think he is fine for spot duty at PG, but he needs someone else to run the offense. 


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Re: I like Bradley as a starting PG moving forward
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2013, 08:29:58 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Why does everyone love Bradley?? Good defense player but thats it.

Right on the money.

Re: I like Bradley as a starting PG moving forward
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2013, 08:30:19 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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Never been better the last 2 seasons as we were with the rondo/Bradley backcourt...you're to infatuated with height..

He's not a 2 guard but Lee is? Have you actually looked at them next to each other? Little difference

Re: I like Bradley as a starting PG moving forward
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2013, 08:34:26 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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Why does everyone love Bradley?? Good defense player but thats it.

Right on the money.

Hmmm. His defense is game changing, he plays harder then just about anybody and he's a likable kid? Why wouldn't you love him?

 

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