Author Topic: Marc Spears on WEEI predicts the C's will make KG trade  (Read 16172 times)

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Re: Marc Spears on WEEI predicts the C's will make KG trade
« Reply #45 on: February 19, 2013, 11:12:55 AM »

Offline Who

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I think DeAndre Jordan needs a top defensive coach to help him fulfill his defensive potential. Vinny Del Negro isn't that guy.

Tyson Chandler greatly benefited from having Scott Skiles early in his career. Skiles molded Tyson into one of the best defensive bigs in the league just like he did with Andrew Bogut in Milwaukee.

DeAndre Jordan needs his own Scott Skiles. It'll make his career.

Re: Marc Spears on weei in the 9am hour
« Reply #46 on: February 19, 2013, 11:14:16 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Jordan an elite center?

Spears just impeached his credibility with that one.

Yeah. If Jordan were an elite center please tell me how he is not one right now on a team with CP3 and Blake Griffin...

Really hoping he is wrong about this.
It is slim pickings among centers these days, but I don't see how anyone not named Noah, Howard, or Chandler (and maybe Varejao when healthy) can be called "elite" without stretching the term past reasonable credibility.

Jordan is a 24 y/o 6'11" center who is averaging 9/7 in 24 minutes per game. Normally, player's peak years are ~26-31, give or take. Is he "elite" now? No. Could he be "elite" in a year or 3. Yes.

Just remember, at 27 Tyson Chandler did not start for the Bobcat in the playoffs. He averaged only 15 minutes per game. The next season he was a defensive anchor and the starting C for the Dallas team that won the championship. He is now considered one of the top Cs in the league.

IMO, it's a little too early to judge Jordon.

Mk
At 27, Tyson Chandler already had 2 full seasons as a starter in New Orleans in which he averaged 11 pts and 12 rebounds. His play in Dallas wasn't exactly a revelation.

Jordan has 4 seasons of sustained mediocrity so far. Sure, he's younger, and maybe he can improve. But it's far from a given.

Could he be Elite? Sure he could.

But when Olowokandi was the same age as Jordan his averages were somewhat similar. 8.5ppg, 6.4rpg, 1.3bpg shot only 44% from the field (really?), and 54% from the free thrown line, playing 26 minutes a game.
The next season he averaged 11 9 and 2 blocks.

Kwame Brown averaged 7 and 7 at Jordans age in 28 minutes a game.

Perkins 8 and 8 with 2 blocks in 29 minutes.

Darko 8 and 5 in 25 minutes.


Did any of them turn out to bed "elite" by any means?

Kwame Brown has been in the league for 11 years and Perk has been the starter on two championship contending teams.

People seem to constantly miss the replacement value of players as in, "If not Jordan, who?"  KG might be gone after this year and almost 100% will be gone after 2 more seasons at the most and it's nearly as certain his performance will further decline.  So if you don't trade KG for Bledsoe/Jordan, where is Boston going to get a big as good as Jordan?

Suck bad enough to get a top pick and then be lucky enough to do so when an elite center is coming out of college?  Ainge could wait for a decade or more and that never happens.

Bring in a free agent?  You'll either have to pay as much or more than what Jordan's getting for an elite big and you could very well end up paying a lot for somebody who isn't as good.

Trade for an elite center?  With what assets?  KG and Pierce aren't ever going to bring more back in the future than they will right now.

Mike

Re: Marc Spears on weei in the 9am hour
« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2013, 11:15:57 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Jordan an elite center?

Spears just impeached his credibility with that one.

Yeah. If Jordan were an elite center please tell me how he is not one right now on a team with CP3 and Blake Griffin...

Really hoping he is wrong about this.
It is slim pickings among centers these days, but I don't see how anyone not named Noah, Howard, or Chandler (and maybe Varejao when healthy) can be called "elite" without stretching the term past reasonable credibility.

Jordan is a 24 y/o 6'11" center who is averaging 9/7 in 24 minutes per game. Normally, player's peak years are ~26-31, give or take. Is he "elite" now? No. Could he be "elite" in a year or 3. Yes.

Just remember, at 27 Tyson Chandler did not start for the Bobcat in the playoffs. He averaged only 15 minutes per game. The next season he was a defensive anchor and the starting C for the Dallas team that won the championship. He is now considered one of the top Cs in the league.

IMO, it's a little too early to judge Jordon.

Mk
Chandler was hurt pretty bad that year, remember that he failed his physical preventing him from going to OKC.

He had major injury issues that cost him a lot of his "prime" productive years. When he finally got healthier is when it all came together, his decline this year is likely health related as well.

Indeed.  At age 24, (Jordan's current age), Chandler led the NBA in total rebounding percentage.  While it's true Chandler has still gotten better as a player since then, and also true that Jordan could/should improve, it is unlikely that Jordan's peak value will ever be as good as Chandler's.

Re: Marc Spears on weei in the 9am hour
« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2013, 11:18:24 AM »

Offline Who

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Jordan an elite center?

Spears just impeached his credibility with that one.
I am more inclined to agree with Flip Saunders, who was on ESPN radio this morning. His view was that you should be able to give the ball to your most important players down the stretch, and that Jordan not being able to make his free throws is a problem in this sense.

  He must not be a fan of players like Dwight, Shaq, Wilt or Russell.

This is the same coach who benched Ben Wallace in fourth quarters back in Detroit.

Re: Marc Spears on WEEI predicts the C's will make KG trade
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2013, 11:18:57 AM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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If the Celtics would do this trade, can they at least get good jumpshooters?

Cause Pierce and KG are one of the best jump shooters in history. That would be extremely difficult to replace

Re: Marc Spears on weei in the 9am hour
« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2013, 11:31:28 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Kwame Brown has been in the league for 11 years and Perk has been the starter on two championship contending teams.

People seem to constantly miss the replacement value of players as in, "If not Jordan, who?"  KG might be gone after this year and almost 100% will be gone after 2 more seasons at the most and it's nearly as certain his performance will further decline.  So if you don't trade KG for Bledsoe/Jordan, where is Boston going to get a big as good as Jordan?

Suck bad enough to get a top pick and then be lucky enough to do so when an elite center is coming out of college?  Ainge could wait for a decade or more and that never happens.

Bring in a free agent?  You'll either have to pay as much or more than what Jordan's getting for an elite big and you could very well end up paying a lot for somebody who isn't as good.

Trade for an elite center?  With what assets?  KG and Pierce aren't ever going to bring more back in the future than they will right now.
So you're saying the only way to get "ok players who have been in the league for a long time" is to trade Garnett for them? Thanks, I'd rather take my chances on the open market.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Marc Spears on weei in the 9am hour
« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2013, 11:31:41 AM »

Online snively

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Jordan an elite center?

Spears just impeached his credibility with that one.

1. He said can be, not is.

2. His credibility as an analyst matters less than his credibility as a reporter.
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Re: Marc Spears on WEEI predicts the C's will make KG trade
« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2013, 11:35:57 AM »

Online snively

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I think DeAndre Jordan needs a top defensive coach to help him fulfill his defensive potential. Vinny Del Negro isn't that guy.

Tyson Chandler greatly benefited from having Scott Skiles early in his career. Skiles molded Tyson into one of the best defensive bigs in the league just like he did with Andrew Bogut in Milwaukee.

DeAndre Jordan needs his own Scott Skiles. It'll make his career.

Any other defensive coaches you think could help him reach his potential?
2016 CelticsBlog Draft: Chicago Bulls

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Starters: Rubio, Danny Green, Durant, Markieff Morris, Capela
Bench: Sessions, Shumpert, G. Green, T. Booker, Frye
Deep Bench: CJ Watson, H. Thompson, P. Zipser, Papagiannis, Mejri

Re: Marc Spears on WEEI predicts the C's will make KG trade
« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2013, 11:38:55 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Re: Marc Spears on weei in the 9am hour
« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2013, 11:40:58 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Jordan an elite center?

Spears just impeached his credibility with that one.
I am more inclined to agree with Flip Saunders, who was on ESPN radio this morning. His view was that you should be able to give the ball to your most important players down the stretch, and that Jordan not being able to make his free throws is a problem in this sense.

  He must not be a fan of players like Dwight, Shaq, Wilt or Russell.

This is the same coach who benched Ben Wallace in fourth quarters back in Detroit.
Yep, and he had stories about this, too. Like how he asked Wallace to inbound the ball and stay out of bounds so that they can't foul him without earning a tech. Generally, his opinion was that you can only get away with that much gimmicks, and that "if you want the ball down the stretch, learn to make your free throws".

Yes, he was also asked about Dwight Howard in this respect and he was not a fan, though he noted that keeping someone like this on the floor can work if he "takes his defense to another level".
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Marc Spears on WEEI predicts the C's will make KG trade
« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2013, 11:46:47 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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Marc spears is spouting his personal opinion which is good for nothing.


I won't watch another game this year if they trade kg, no offense..I'll pick up the beginning of next season

Re: Marc Spears on WEEI predicts the C's will make KG trade
« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2013, 11:50:44 AM »

Offline jay

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So if both trades happened, next year would look like:


Rondo   Bledsoe
Bradley  Terry
Green  Lee
Smith   Sullinger  Bass
Jordan  Melo  Wilcox?


Would Atlanta demand Sullinger?

Would a Rondo/Bass for Eric Gordon/Jason Smith make sense this summer?  It would allow Bledsoe to be starting pg and make Bradley the 3rd guard.

Re: Marc Spears on WEEI predicts the C's will make KG trade
« Reply #57 on: February 19, 2013, 11:50:56 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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I think DeAndre Jordan needs a top defensive coach to help him fulfill his defensive potential. Vinny Del Negro isn't that guy.

Tyson Chandler greatly benefited from having Scott Skiles early in his career. Skiles molded Tyson into one of the best defensive bigs in the league just like he did with Andrew Bogut in Milwaukee.

DeAndre Jordan needs his own Scott Skiles. It'll make his career.

Any other defensive coaches you think could help him reach his potential?

No coach on the Celtics currently
Thibodeau could

Re: Marc Spears on WEEI predicts the C's will make KG trade
« Reply #58 on: February 19, 2013, 11:53:18 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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So if both trades happened, next year would look like:


Rondo   Bledsoe
Bradley  Terry
Green  Lee
Smith   Sullinger  Bass
Jordan  Melo  Wilcox?


Would Atlanta demand Sullinger?

Would a Rondo/Bass for Eric Gordon/Jason Smith make sense this summer?  It would allow Bledsoe to be starting pg and make Bradley the 3rd guard.


No.  Rondo is the better player.  Keep him, trade Bledsoe.

Re: Marc Spears on WEEI predicts the C's will make KG trade
« Reply #59 on: February 19, 2013, 11:57:05 AM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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I think DeAndre Jordan needs a top defensive coach to help him fulfill his defensive potential. Vinny Del Negro isn't that guy.

Tyson Chandler greatly benefited from having Scott Skiles early in his career. Skiles molded Tyson into one of the best defensive bigs in the league just like he did with Andrew Bogut in Milwaukee.

DeAndre Jordan needs his own Scott Skiles. It'll make his career.

Any other defensive coaches you think could help him reach his potential?

No coach on the Celtics currently
Thibodeau could

Thibs deff helped Noah and Deng