Author Topic: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG  (Read 14778 times)

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Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #210 on: February 17, 2013, 08:14:37 PM »

Offline mctyson

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for a couple border-line starters who may or may not make this franchise any better in the long run is by no means a "no brainer." 

I'm not demanding a trade for KG, but this attitude is as wrongheaded as the "break up the team at the drop of a hat" thinking.

Deandre Jordan is not a borderline starter and Bledsoe is superior to Avery Bradley in just about everything except defense.

Mike

Please explain to me how "Bledsoe is better than Avery Bradley" is a justification for trading Kevin Garnett.  Then we can discuss whether the attitude is wrongheaded.

I just don't think people here understand how bad the Celtics would be without KG. 

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #211 on: February 17, 2013, 08:19:15 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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for a couple border-line starters who may or may not make this franchise any better in the long run is by no means a "no brainer." 

I'm not demanding a trade for KG, but this attitude is as wrongheaded as the "break up the team at the drop of a hat" thinking.

Deandre Jordan is not a borderline starter and Bledsoe is superior to Avery Bradley in just about everything except defense.

Mike

Please explain to me how "Bledsoe is better than Avery Bradley" is a justification for trading Kevin Garnett.  Then we can discuss whether the attitude is wrongheaded.

I just don't think people here understand how bad the Celtics would be without KG.

I think most people here understand very well that the celtics would be awful without KG. It's painfully obvious every time he sits out during a game. That's not why some people are up for trading him. It's because he's got maybe half a season to 1 and a half seasons left in him, and we are going to see the celtics without KG very soon one way or another. The difference is that if we trade him at least we get something of value in return when he leaves.

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #212 on: February 17, 2013, 08:30:48 PM »

Offline mctyson

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for a couple border-line starters who may or may not make this franchise any better in the long run is by no means a "no brainer." 

I'm not demanding a trade for KG, but this attitude is as wrongheaded as the "break up the team at the drop of a hat" thinking.

Deandre Jordan is not a borderline starter and Bledsoe is superior to Avery Bradley in just about everything except defense.

Mike

Please explain to me how "Bledsoe is better than Avery Bradley" is a justification for trading Kevin Garnett.  Then we can discuss whether the attitude is wrongheaded.

I just don't think people here understand how bad the Celtics would be without KG.

I think most people here understand very well that the celtics would be awful without KG. It's painfully obvious every time he sits out during a game. That's not why some people are up for trading him. It's because he's got maybe half a season to 1 and a half seasons left in him, and we are going to see the celtics without KG very soon one way or another. The difference is that if we trade him at least we get something of value in return when he leaves.

But those in favor of this deal automatically assume $11M for DeAndre Jordan for 3 years is value.  It automatically assumes that adding Bledsoe to a team with Rondo under contract for 2 more years and Bradley on his rookie deal...is value.  It may be.  I am not going to judge that end of the proposed trade - no one knows how it would work out.

The burden is on supporters of the deal to explain, in detail, how this benefits the franchise now and in the future.  Saying that we should just trade KG because he is going to retire is not a good reason.

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #213 on: February 17, 2013, 08:38:42 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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for a couple border-line starters who may or may not make this franchise any better in the long run is by no means a "no brainer." 

I'm not demanding a trade for KG, but this attitude is as wrongheaded as the "break up the team at the drop of a hat" thinking.

Deandre Jordan is not a borderline starter and Bledsoe is superior to Avery Bradley in just about everything except defense.

Mike

Please explain to me how "Bledsoe is better than Avery Bradley" is a justification for trading Kevin Garnett.  Then we can discuss whether the attitude is wrongheaded.

I just don't think people here understand how bad the Celtics would be without KG.

I think most people here understand very well that the celtics would be awful without KG. It's painfully obvious every time he sits out during a game. That's not why some people are up for trading him. It's because he's got maybe half a season to 1 and a half seasons left in him, and we are going to see the celtics without KG very soon one way or another. The difference is that if we trade him at least we get something of value in return when he leaves.

But those in favor of this deal automatically assume $11M for DeAndre Jordan for 3 years is value.  It automatically assumes that adding Bledsoe to a team with Rondo under contract for 2 more years and Bradley on his rookie deal...is value.  It may be.  I am not going to judge that end of the proposed trade - no one knows how it would work out.

The burden is on supporters of the deal to explain, in detail, how this benefits the franchise now and in the future.  Saying that we should just trade KG because he is going to retire is not a good reason.

This trade would not be made to benefit the franchise now, it would be for the future. Bledsoe is a very valuable young guard who many believe will be a star PG. The purpose of acquiring him would be to have a very tradeable asset. Same for Jordan. Good young defensive centers are rare in today's NBA. There will be no lack of contenders who would be willing to give good value for him a year from now.

If Ainge were to do this deal, it would be because he believes this season is over with no Rondo, Sullinger, and Barbosa, and that KG will likely retire next year. If he's sure KG plays next year, it may be worth keeping him and making one last run with Rondo and Sullinger back, but heck, how would Rondo re-integrate himself on this team next year?

It may be difficult to pass up getting valuable assets for KG if the offer comes up. We lost Ray for nothing, may lose Pierce for nothing, and are not in good shape to contend this year.

I personally wouldn't trade KG, but I see the value in doing so.

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #214 on: February 17, 2013, 08:48:55 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Bledsoe is a very valuable young guard who many believe will be a star PG.

What is this based upon, I wonder?  Bledsoe is a pretty poor shooter, and his assist rate is pretty bad. 


D. Cousins / F. Ezeli / P. Antic
D. West / R. Anderson / C. Copeland
L. Deng / V. Carter / D. Rudez
A. Iguodala / M. Ginobil / B. Gordon
K. Irving / S. Livingston / S. Blake

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Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #215 on: February 17, 2013, 08:55:34 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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Bledsoe is a very valuable young guard who many believe will be a star PG.

What is this based upon, I wonder?  Bledsoe is a pretty poor shooter, and his assist rate is pretty bad.

The same logic that conflates a very limited, vastly overpaid center in Jordan whose contract is hardly an asset.

Not to mention the same illogic behind "trade Garnett because he's going to retire soon." Return matters, and Jordan and Bledsoe is a woefully inadequate return.

This proposed trade is truly a SMH moment.

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #216 on: February 17, 2013, 08:57:48 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Bledsoe is a very valuable young guard who many believe will be a star PG.

What is this based upon, I wonder?  Bledsoe is a pretty poor shooter, and his assist rate is pretty bad.

Let's see if you still believe this statement a year from now.

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #217 on: February 17, 2013, 08:59:15 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Bledsoe is a very valuable young guard who many believe will be a star PG.

What is this based upon, I wonder?  Bledsoe is a pretty poor shooter, and his assist rate is pretty bad.

The same logic that conflates a very limited, vastly overpaid center in Jordan whose contract is hardly an asset.

Not to mention the same illogic behind "trade Garnett because he's going to retire soon." Return matters, and Jordan and Bledsoe is a woefully inadequate return.

This proposed trade is truly a SMH moment.

Who do you expect to get for a player at the end of his career? Eric Gordon? Al Jefferson?

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #218 on: February 17, 2013, 09:00:28 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Bledsoe is a very valuable young guard who many believe will be a star PG.

What is this based upon, I wonder?  Bledsoe is a pretty poor shooter, and his assist rate is pretty bad.

Let's see if you still believe this statement a year from now.

Do you disagree that to date, he's been a poor shooter and passer?

"Wait and see" isn't a great reason to make a trade, in my mind.  I think asking somebody to justify why Bledsoe is going to be a "star PG" is a fair question.   


D. Cousins / F. Ezeli / P. Antic
D. West / R. Anderson / C. Copeland
L. Deng / V. Carter / D. Rudez
A. Iguodala / M. Ginobil / B. Gordon
K. Irving / S. Livingston / S. Blake

Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #219 on: February 17, 2013, 09:02:15 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Bledsoe is a very valuable young guard who many believe will be a star PG.

What is this based upon, I wonder?  Bledsoe is a pretty poor shooter, and his assist rate is pretty bad.

For what it's worth, Bledsoe's advanced stats are pretty good this season, and he has been extremely productive per-minute coming off the bench.  Less so when he was playing as the starter.

Bledsoe's always shown flashes with his speed, athleticism, and finishing ability. 

I think Bledsoe is a classic example of a guy who tantalizes because he could be really good if he makes the leap to starter -- if he can do for 35-36 minutes a night what he now does now in short shifts off the bench -- and he can flesh out some of the less developed areas of his game (shooting, passing).

If what he is now is more or less all he's going to be, though, he's just an okay player who gives you a highlight reel play now and then.

The reason the Clips should want to trade him now is that he has one  year left on his deal.  He has value to a team that might look to start him at either of the guard spots for the rest of the season and beyond that to get a real gauge of his value long term before giving him a deal. 

If the Clips keep him until his rookie deal expires, they'll have to gamble by giving him the kind of contract he'll probably want, or they'll have to let him go for nothing.  Or maybe his stock will drop a lot over the next season or so.  In any case, they'll have missed the opportunity to sell high.
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Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #220 on: February 17, 2013, 09:03:49 PM »

Online Chief

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Bledsoe is a very valuable young guard who many believe will be a star PG.

What is this based upon, I wonder?  Bledsoe is a pretty poor shooter, and his assist rate is pretty bad.

Let's see if you still believe this statement a year from now.

Do you disagree that to date, he's been a poor shooter and passer?

"Wait and see" isn't a great reason to make a trade, in my mind.  I think asking somebody to justify why Bledsoe is going to be a "star PG" is a fair question.

He's good at dunking. ;)
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Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #221 on: February 17, 2013, 09:04:27 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Bledsoe is a very valuable young guard who many believe will be a star PG.

What is this based upon, I wonder?  Bledsoe is a pretty poor shooter, and his assist rate is pretty bad.

Let's see if you still believe this statement a year from now.

Do you disagree that to date, he's been a poor shooter and passer?

"Wait and see" isn't a great reason to make a trade, in my mind.  I think asking somebody to justify why Bledsoe is going to be a "star PG" is a fair question.

He's been a poor outside shooter, sure. He has vastly improved his 3pt shot lately, and gets to the basket easily. He is extremely athletic, and he fills up every statistical category both offensive and defensive in short minutes. When he started, he was shaky for a few games and then settled down and produced at a high level. He's been nicknamed baby Lebron because he is basically a shorter Lebron, who was also not a good  outside shooter his first few years in the league. His stats in his first 2 years are as good or better than Rondo's were in his 1st 2 years. He's also backing up CP3.

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #222 on: February 17, 2013, 09:08:31 PM »

Online LooseCannon

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Bledsoe is a very valuable young guard who many believe will be a star PG.

What is this based upon, I wonder?  Bledsoe is a pretty poor shooter, and his assist rate is pretty bad.

I'm not sure if they believe he will be a "star", but it has been reported consistently for a year now that teams have inquired about Bledsoe as a possible starting PG.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #223 on: February 17, 2013, 09:08:38 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Bledsoe is shooting over 40% on threes this season on 1.7 attempts per 36.  So he's not a terrible outside shooter.

I don't know how he is as a mid-range shooter, though.  And I imagine those threes are basically all spot-up attempts off dishes from CP3.

His scoring per-36 won't blow you away, either.  But defensively he has a great reputation, and for good reason -- he makes a lot of athletic defensive plays.  The kind of plays that Avery Bradley tends to make (e.g. block on Wade).

Pairing Bledsoe and Bradley in the backcourt could be pretty exciting -- with more offensive upside than the current Bradley / Lee pairing.  And if it really worked out it could allow them to explore trading Rondo for a younger wing or big man.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #224 on: February 17, 2013, 09:14:29 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Bledsoe is shooting over 40% on threes this season on 1.7 attempts per 36.  So he's not a terrible outside shooter.


Yes, his 3pt shot has improved a lot this year. He's like Bradley but with much more offensive skills.

 

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