Author Topic: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG  (Read 14476 times)

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Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #195 on: February 17, 2013, 04:03:22 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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How do you not do this deal? The Celtics team is not contending. Eric Bledsoe and DeAndre Jordan are excellent young prospects - and you are trading a declining 36 year old who is going to retire soon. We haven't been true contenders for the last two years.

Did someone in this thread say Bledsoe can't shoot? He's shooting 43% from 3.


Did someone also say Jordan is a below average center? He's 24 years old and has an almost 17 PER and is only getting better.

I really don't want to watch this team be mediocre (as it has been this year) for the next couple years.

You don't want this team to be mediocre but want to get rid of kg for Bledsoe and Jordan? Make up your mind

That team will be worse than mediocre

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #196 on: February 17, 2013, 04:15:50 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Well, "worse than mediocre" is not the same as "mediocre" [Hint: it's worse], so it is consistent with not wanting the team to be mediocre.
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Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #197 on: February 17, 2013, 04:18:44 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Did someone also say Jordan is a below average center? He's 24 years old and has an almost 17 PER and is only getting better.
Can you please explain why this should be true? Certainly not because he's 24.
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Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #198 on: February 17, 2013, 04:23:25 PM »

Offline jdz101

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Did someone also say Jordan is a below average center? He's 24 years old and has an almost 17 PER and is only getting better.
Can you please explain why this should be true? Certainly not because he's 24.

I'll add that Ryan Anderson's PER was the best in the league for a while last season...do we offer the house for Ryan Anderson??

Deandre Jordan has no shooting touch, post game or free throw ability. In fact other than alley oop lobs, he has no offensive game at all.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 04:43:44 PM by jdz101 »


how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was chris bosh?

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #199 on: February 17, 2013, 04:26:06 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Did someone also say Jordan is a below average center? He's 24 years old and has an almost 17 PER and is only getting better.
Can you please explain why this should be true? Certainly not because he's 24.

I'll add that Ryan Anderson's PER was the best in the league for a while last season...do we offer the house for Ryan Anderson??
I wouldn't mind having Ryan Anderson. But that's not the point here.

I don't see idea that Jordan "will only be getting better" as any sort of universal truth.
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Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #200 on: February 17, 2013, 04:38:41 PM »

Offline slamdunk

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Could the clippers be tampering here? No inside information just curious.

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #201 on: February 17, 2013, 04:39:27 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Did someone also say Jordan is a below average center? He's 24 years old and has an almost 17 PER and is only getting better.
Can you please explain why this should be true? Certainly not because he's 24.

I'll add that Ryan Anderson's PER was the best in the league for a while last season...do we offer the house for Ryan Anderson??

While I do not believe in PER as a stat, if I had DeAndre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe, I would trade them for Ryan Anderson.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #202 on: February 17, 2013, 04:40:31 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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PER is just another garbage piece of sabremetrics overemployed to overvalue players.

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #203 on: February 17, 2013, 05:06:29 PM »

Offline thirstyboots18

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KG came back with the understanding that Danny was going to try to contend.  To trade him now is a betrayal.

1.  Rondo is done for the year.  So is Sully and Barbosa.  For this team to contend now would be one of the greatest and most totally unexplainable things to ever happen in sports history.  I mean, can anyone think of a team in Boston's situation that EVER won a championship?

2.  KG would have to agree to any trade.  You can't betray someone when you have to get their consent to do it.

3.  Ainge's responsibility is to think about contending for the next 10 years and beyond, not just this year.

I lived through the post-Bird years and unless a couple of really good players just up and die on the Celtics and we get a complete buffoon like Pitino running things again, I feel safe in saying that the rebuilding process won't be anywhere near as bad as that.  So, I'm perfectly fine with KG and Pierce retiring in green.  But I won't be outraged if Ainge can find a way to get 3 or 4 years of that process done in one fell swoop while also giving KG and Pierce better chances to win another ring.

Mike

You mean to contend IN ABOUT 10 years? The team we will able to put together isn't going to contend for anything anytime soon!

So if it's really about contending then he has that team (with a couple tweaks) right now.

How many teams do a fast turnaround to contention? Exactly. Most teams are garbage for YEARS before they even get contender status then even more years until they win.

Sure it's probably quite a long shot for this team as currently constructed to win a title but at least they have a shot! I mean, yes KG and PP are old but they are top 5 at their positions even now! Winning chips is a bit of luck, great talents, and a bit of desperation! Our team has all that... if we can make minor changes who knows what we could do?

Get us Dalembert and a solid PG and we're cooking!
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Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #204 on: February 17, 2013, 05:41:11 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I still have yet to hear anyone state how this trade makes sense for the Celtics.

It's all about aquiring young assets for a guy who won't be worth anything to the Celtics in a year or two, when he retires.  If you believe the Celtics have a decent chance at winning the title this year, or next, as currently constructed, then you are against this deal.  Otherwise, it's a no brainer. 

For me, it's about winning championships, as soon as I believe there is no chance to win as currently constructed, it's time to begin rebuilding, and gear up for that next title.  This trade would net the Celtics two young talents, that clearly, in two years, will make the Celtics better than if they just keep KG and let him retire a Celtic.

It's also not necessarily a slap in the face for KG.  Who wouldn't want to improve their chance of winning a title before he retires.  In L.A, he would certainly do that.

I will restate my earlier point:  I have yet to hear how this trade makes any sense for the Celtics.

I will also expand on your points.  Little do you discuss how valuable KG is to this franchise, how ANY Celtic team with him on it is considerably closer to winning a championship than without him.  You state that the trade is a "no brainer" once you have concluded that the Celtics cannot win a title as currently constructed, which I am assuming you believe.

There are maybe 2-3 teams in the entire league whose fan bases can wake up tomorrow and say "we can win a title."  So, by your logic, all of these teams should be following the same path this proposed Celtics trade is following - dumping their best players for whatever else some team will give them, so long as it is different and young and an asset and all that crap.

KG is not Antoine Walker.  He is not Kendrick Perkins.  He is not even Ray Allen.  He is without question the most important player this franchise has had for at least the last 6 years, arguably since Larry Bird.  He is still playing at a high level, still leading a defense that can put up near-historic defensive statistics, and the team is still highly dependent on him every night.  He is the center-piece of a squad that NO TEAM wants to face in the playoffs, and that includes the defending champions with the 3-time MVP who is playing at his all-time best right now.

So no, this is not some "no brainer" deal, as you put it.  Maybe the Celtics have a 1% chance of winning the title.  Trading away the heart and soul  that gets us that 1%, for a couple border-line starters who may or may not make this franchise any better in the long run is by no means a "no brainer." 

I would much rather watch this great Hall of Fame player every day for as long as he wants to play.

DeAndre Jordan???  Please.

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #205 on: February 17, 2013, 06:32:51 PM »

Online MBunge

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for a couple border-line starters who may or may not make this franchise any better in the long run is by no means a "no brainer." 

I'm not demanding a trade for KG, but this attitude is as wrongheaded as the "break up the team at the drop of a hat" thinking.

Deandre Jordan is not a borderline starter and Bledsoe is superior to Avery Bradley in just about everything except defense.

Mike

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #206 on: February 17, 2013, 06:33:46 PM »

Offline FallGuy

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The point of dealing for Bledsoe and Jordan is that they're highly marketable pieces around the league. Don't think of them as future core Celtics pieces but as parts that may eventually net a superstar.

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #207 on: February 17, 2013, 06:44:03 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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I still have yet to hear anyone state how this trade makes sense for the Celtics.

It's all about aquiring young assets for a guy who won't be worth anything to the Celtics in a year or two, when he retires.  If you believe the Celtics have a decent chance at winning the title this year, or next, as currently constructed, then you are against this deal.  Otherwise, it's a no brainer. 

For me, it's about winning championships, as soon as I believe there is no chance to win as currently constructed, it's time to begin rebuilding, and gear up for that next title.  This trade would net the Celtics two young talents, that clearly, in two years, will make the Celtics better than if they just keep KG and let him retire a Celtic.

It's also not necessarily a slap in the face for KG.  Who wouldn't want to improve their chance of winning a title before he retires.  In L.A, he would certainly do that.

I will restate my earlier point:  I have yet to hear how this trade makes any sense for the Celtics.

I will also expand on your points.  Little do you discuss how valuable KG is to this franchise, how ANY Celtic team with him on it is considerably closer to winning a championship than without him.  You state that the trade is a "no brainer" once you have concluded that the Celtics cannot win a title as currently constructed, which I am assuming you believe.

There are maybe 2-3 teams in the entire league whose fan bases can wake up tomorrow and say "we can win a title."  So, by your logic, all of these teams should be following the same path this proposed Celtics trade is following - dumping their best players for whatever else some team will give them, so long as it is different and young and an asset and all that crap.

KG is not Antoine Walker.  He is not Kendrick Perkins.  He is not even Ray Allen.  He is without question the most important player this franchise has had for at least the last 6 years, arguably since Larry Bird.  He is still playing at a high level, still leading a defense that can put up near-historic defensive statistics, and the team is still highly dependent on him every night.  He is the center-piece of a squad that NO TEAM wants to face in the playoffs, and that includes the defending champions with the 3-time MVP who is playing at his all-time best right now.

So no, this is not some "no brainer" deal, as you put it.  Maybe the Celtics have a 1% chance of winning the title.  Trading away the heart and soul  that gets us that 1%, for a couple border-line starters who may or may not make this franchise any better in the long run is by no means a "no brainer." 

I would much rather watch this great Hall of Fame player every day for as long as he wants to play.

DeAndre Jordan???  Please.

nicely stated mt....though i think a tad more highly of jordan than you may, all in all a good post. tp.
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Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #208 on: February 17, 2013, 08:00:45 PM »

Offline TripleOT

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The point of dealing for Bledsoe and Jordan is that they're highly marketable pieces around the league. Don't think of them as future core Celtics pieces but as parts that may eventually net a superstar.

Bingo.  DJ would be a serviceable rim protector and rebounder, and would be valuable in trades.  I think Bledsoe will become a star PG, and would either bring back a lot of value in trade, or allow the Cs to move Rondo for quality. 

Re: Spears and Wojo confirm Celtics and Clippers talking KG
« Reply #209 on: February 17, 2013, 08:08:09 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I'm not for trading KG, but with that said, it's AMAZING how so many celtics fans consider Bradley a franchise savior and untouchable, and had considered Perkins so highly, yet they consider Bledsoe a mediocre backup pg, even though he is clearly far more talented that Bradley AND only a backup because he's playing behind CP3, and they dump on Deandre Jordan even though he's better, and younger, more athletic, and healthier than Perkins.

 

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