Author Topic: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll  (Read 3026 times)

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Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2013, 10:38:29 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I'd be happy with a team that is the league's top defense and about average offensively.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2013, 11:36:55 PM »

Online JBcat

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Who?  Besides the Thunder, I don't really see anyone close in terms of young franchise talent to build around.  The Sixers?  Pacers?  Kings?  The Sixers want to blow it up.  The Pacers still can't score and the Kings are a joke.

There are a lot of franchise's with young talented players to build around. Indiana, Portland, Houston, LAC, Denver, Minnesota, Chicago, Cleveland...

Doesn't really matter either way. I don't see any team beating Miami or OKC in the near future.


I agree with the above statement for the most part.  In 2 or 3 when KG and Paul are gone Lebron and Durant will still be in their prime, and they are head and shoulders above other elite players.  There is a point when Wade reaches 32 33 years old Lebron will have to carry too much of the load, but we'll see.  Even so our foursome can be lumped in the same category as many other foursomes in the league in 2,3 years time.  Lots of parity.

2,3 years time

Gay, DeRozan, Lowry, Bargnani
Holiday, Young, Turner, Bynum
Rose, Noah, Deng, Gibson
Irving, Waiters, Thompson, high draft pick
Monroe, Drummond, Knight, high draft pick
George, Hibbert, Granger, Hill
Jennings, Ellis, Ilyasova, Sanders
Smith, Hortford, Teague, ?
Curry, Thompson, Lee, Barnes, maybe Bogut
Paul, Griffin, Jordan, Bledsoe
Cousins, Robinson, Evans, Thornton
Harden, Parsons, Lin, Asik
Conley, Gasol, Davis, Arthur
Davis, Gordon, Anderson, Vasquez
Lawson, Faried, Gallinari, McGee
Love, Rubio, Pekovic, Shved
Aldridge, Lillard, Batum, Matthews
Favors, Kanter, Hayword, Jefferson or Millsap

So that's more than half the league that for the most part can claim they "like" their core 4 young players for a couple years down the road.  Ours isn't really any more special especially knowing we don't know how Rondo and Sully will come back after major surgeries, and the unknown ceiling still of Bradley.  That doesn't include high draft picks that could make teams like Orlando, Washington, Charlotte, ect join the discussion. 

Our best shots IMO of being a contender down the road after after Paul and KG is have a very deep team built like Denver which obviously not many teams can do, or with our cap space hope a player like Carmelo comes here as his team gets older, and be our go to guy.  We are very unlikely to get a franchise player in the draft.


Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2013, 12:56:32 AM »

Offline Smutzy#9

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Cleveland have a much better and promising young 4 than what we do

Irving
Waiters
Thompson
Zellar

With most likely another 1-2 season decent picks

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2013, 04:35:50 AM »

Offline celticsleyte

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Bradley has a shot if he can be the 15-18ppg plus All-NBA defense guy that he has the potential to be.  Not close to guaranteed, but not impossible.
Not impossible. Just highly improbable. So far, Bradley is projecting as a PG/SG version of Bruce Bowen.
With any health AB>>>>>>>BB

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2013, 06:40:30 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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You lost me with green being a decent rebounder...

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2013, 06:43:31 AM »

Offline Smutzy#9

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Who?  Besides the Thunder, I don't really see anyone close in terms of young franchise talent to build around.  The Sixers?  Pacers?  Kings?  The Sixers want to blow it up.  The Pacers still can't score and the Kings are a joke.

There are a lot of franchise's with young talented players to build around. Indiana, Portland, Houston, LAC, Denver, Minnesota, Chicago, Cleveland...

Doesn't really matter either way. I don't see any team beating Miami or OKC in the near future.


I agree with the above statement for the most part.  In 2 or 3 when KG and Paul are gone Lebron and Durant will still be in their prime, and they are head and shoulders above other elite players.  There is a point when Wade reaches 32 33 years old Lebron will have to carry too much of the load, but we'll see.  Even so our foursome can be lumped in the same category as many other foursomes in the league in 2,3 years time.  Lots of parity.

2,3 years time

Gay, DeRozan, Lowry, Bargnani
Holiday, Young, Turner, Bynum
Rose, Noah, Deng, Gibson
Irving, Waiters, Thompson, high draft pick
Monroe, Drummond, Knight, high draft pick
George, Hibbert, Granger, Hill
Jennings, Ellis, Ilyasova, Sanders
Smith, Hortford, Teague, ?
Curry, Thompson, Lee, Barnes, maybe Bogut
Paul, Griffin, Jordan, Bledsoe
Cousins, Robinson, Evans, Thornton
Harden, Parsons, Lin, Asik
Conley, Gasol, Davis, Arthur
Davis, Gordon, Anderson, Vasquez
Lawson, Faried, Gallinari, McGee
Love, Rubio, Pekovic, Shved
Aldridge, Lillard, Batum, Matthews
Favors, Kanter, Hayword, Jefferson or Millsap

So that's more than half the league that for the most part can claim they "like" their core 4 young players for a couple years down the road.  Ours isn't really any more special especially knowing we don't know how Rondo and Sully will come back after major surgeries, and the unknown ceiling still of Bradley.  That doesn't include high draft picks that could make teams like Orlando, Washington, Charlotte, ect join the discussion. 

Our best shots IMO of being a contender down the road after after Paul and KG is have a very deep team built like Denver which obviously not many teams can do, or with our cap space hope a player like Carmelo comes here as his team gets older, and be our go to guy.  We are very unlikely to get a franchise player in the draft.

TP sir

Forgot Curry Thompson Barnes

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2013, 09:01:06 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

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that is a 35-45 win team, sorry. If that is our future I'm depressed. :'(

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2013, 02:25:17 PM »

Offline tonyto3690

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Amazing -- Fab Melo is going to be a dominant center, Jeff Green has all of a sudden become a great player, and Jared Sullinger is going to be a better player and his back will never bother him again because some doctor said something like that about his back. Of the four players listed, the only one I think will ever be an all star is Rondo.

Yeah, pretty much this.

Just not enough offense out of that core.  Defensively, they'd be pretty good, but when games get tight, none of those players are capable of getting a bucket at will.

That core would win 40-45 games at best.
Defense wins championships.  Projecting our starters in their prime vs the Bulls last season who won 62(?) games.

Rondo = Rose
Bradley >>> Korver/Brewer
Green > Deng
Sullinger < Boozer
???   <<<<< Noah

It's really not that far off.  You need a good bench obviously and a quality center, but it's not like I'm saying we need a Durant calibre player to win.  Those four are as good a quartet defensively as any you'll find in the NBA already, never mind in their primes and when Bradley/Green aren't still in recovery mode.

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2013, 04:13:26 PM »

Offline vinnie

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You lost me with green being a decent rebounder...

Come on, he is averaging 3.3 boards a game in 24 minutes.   ;D

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2013, 04:14:26 PM »

Offline vinnie

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Amazing -- Fab Melo is going to be a dominant center, Jeff Green has all of a sudden become a great player, and Jared Sullinger is going to be a better player and his back will never bother him again because some doctor said something like that about his back. Of the four players listed, the only one I think will ever be an all star is Rondo.

Yeah, pretty much this.

Just not enough offense out of that core.  Defensively, they'd be pretty good, but when games get tight, none of those players are capable of getting a bucket at will.

That core would win 40-45 games at best.
Defense wins championships.  Projecting our starters in their prime vs the Bulls last season who won 62(?) games.

Rondo = Rose
Bradley >>> Korver/Brewer
Green > Deng
Sullinger < Boozer
???   <<<<< Noah

It's really not that far off.  You need a good bench obviously and a quality center, but it's not like I'm saying we need a Durant calibre player to win.  Those four are as good a quartet defensively as any you'll find in the NBA already, never mind in their primes and when Bradley/Green aren't still in recovery mode.

How is Jeff Green better than Luol Deng? I also put Rose above Rondo.

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2013, 04:31:48 PM »

Offline More Banners

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You lost me with green being a decent rebounder...

Come on, he is averaging 3.3 boards a game in 24 minutes.   ;D

Pretty good per-36 number for a SF.

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2013, 04:43:03 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Rondo, Bradley, Green and Sully is a pretty pathetic core.  They'd win 35-45 games at most.   Probably a lottery team.  If they had a franchise player as well like Dwight Howard then maybe they make some noise.

I'm still not that high on Bradley as a starting shooting guard.  He's tremendously undersized and a really weak offensive player.  I like him a lot more as a role playing defensive stopper at the point guard position where his size isn't a disadvantage.  That was one of the benefits of Rondo's injury is that it moved Bradley to a more natural role... being a stopper for a league riddled with quality point guards.   

Rondo can't carry an offense.. he can facilitate an offense if hes surrounded with great offensive weapons or hall of famers.

Jeff Green could indeed be a 19 PPG scorer as a 1st or 2nd option, but never an allstar... and if he's your 1st or 2nd option, your team probably stinks.

I haven't seen enough of SUlly to know if he's anything more than a rich man's glen davis. I like him.  He should be a solid bench player for years to come. 

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2013, 04:53:56 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Rondo, Bradley, Green and Sully is a pretty pathetic core.  They'd win 35-45 games at most.   Probably a lottery team.  If they had a franchise player as well like Dwight Howard then maybe they make some noise.

I'm still not that high on Bradley as a starting shooting guard.  He's tremendously undersized and a really weak offensive player.  I like him a lot more as a role playing defensive stopper at the point guard position where his size isn't a disadvantage.  That was one of the benefits of Rondo's injury is that it moved Bradley to a more natural role... being a stopper for a league riddled with quality point guards.   

Rondo can't carry an offense.. he can facilitate an offense if hes surrounded with great offensive weapons or hall of famers.

Jeff Green could indeed be a 19 PPG scorer as a 1st or 2nd option, but never an allstar... and if he's your 1st or 2nd option, your team probably stinks.

I haven't seen enough of SUlly to know if he's anything more than a rich man's glen davis. I like him.  He should be a solid bench player for years to come.

Good read.

I agree on Rondo/Bradley.  Bradley as a PG stopper is the best role for him IMO as well, which makes him not quite a fit with Rondo.  Lee might be a better fit, but Bradley deserves to start and play.

Add Bradley to the reasons we can be okay without Rondo.

Sully looks like a nice complementary piece at least.  We'll see what his scoring prowess is when NBA defense has to plan for him.  He has to be more than a garbage man underneath to be worth hanging on to.

Green has proven to be a potent #3 on a winner.  At SF, I think he could be a #2, but isn't "da man" at all.  Neither is Rondo.

Which is why we try to get "da man" for the next core if we can, and trading Rondo for that piece is worth considering.

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2013, 05:21:54 PM »

Offline gar

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Agree, Rondo, Bradley, Green and Sully are OK pieces; but they are not a nucleus you can build around. Danny has put togehter some complementary pieces; but take away Garnett and Pierce and it all falls apart. Who takes the final shot if you are down one?

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2013, 06:01:00 PM »

Offline dreamgreen

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Rondo, Bradley, Green and Sully is a pretty pathetic core.  They'd win 35-45 games at most.   Probably a lottery team.  If they had a franchise player as well like Dwight Howard then maybe they make some noise.

I'm still not that high on Bradley as a starting shooting guard.  He's tremendously undersized and a really weak offensive player.  I like him a lot more as a role playing defensive stopper at the point guard position where his size isn't a disadvantage.  That was one of the benefits of Rondo's injury is that it moved Bradley to a more natural role... being a stopper for a league riddled with quality point guards.   

Rondo can't carry an offense.. he can facilitate an offense if hes surrounded with great offensive weapons or hall of famers.

Jeff Green could indeed be a 19 PPG scorer as a 1st or 2nd option, but never an allstar... and if he's your 1st or 2nd option, your team probably stinks.

I haven't seen enough of SUlly to know if he's anything more than a rich man's glen davis. I like him.  He should be a solid bench player for years to come.

Gave you a TP, you seem to get it!

 

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