Author Topic: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll  (Read 7361 times)

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We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« on: February 15, 2013, 03:32:19 PM »

Offline tonyto3690

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Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sullinger is a great 1-4 group.   All of them can play great defense, Green is a decent rebounder at the 3 and Sullinger and Rondo are obviously natural talents there.  All of them are good passers and play well together.

All that remains is developing them.  We need to maintain this style of offense when Rondo gets back and that means him being able to play off the ball and be a real threat as a shooter.  We can't go back to Green and Bradley sitting in the corners.   They have too much talent and potential for us to waste.

In a dream world, we sign Oden and he miraculously able to stay healthy and we have a great young starting 5 that can play defense.  However that is pretty unlikely, but with four quality starters that we can make a legitimate run at the title with once they develop some, there is absolutely no need to make reckless trades on other guys.

Stay the course, weather the rebuilding era with our youth with the knowledge that it will get better pretty quickly.   Wade is already over the hill and with Durant/Westbrook not knowing how to play defense, they will always be beatable.   With the Knicks still a three point show team that doesn't play playoff defense, the only thing in our way is Lebron.  Lebron is great but we saw in Cleveland he can't do it alone.

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2013, 03:38:59 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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So wait a second.....injured rondo, sully and a healthy green Bradley will be able to contend, but wade is old, Lebrun is beatable, the Knicks are nothing and okc can be beaten? Lol

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2013, 03:47:22 PM »

Offline celtsfan84

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Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sullinger is a great 1-4 group.   All of them can play great defense, Green is a decent rebounder at the 3 and Sullinger and Rondo are obviously natural talents there.  All of them are good passers and play well together.

All that remains is developing them.  We need to maintain this style of offense when Rondo gets back and that means him being able to play off the ball and be a real threat as a shooter.  We can't go back to Green and Bradley sitting in the corners.   They have too much talent and potential for us to waste.

In a dream world, we sign Oden and he miraculously able to stay healthy and we have a great young starting 5 that can play defense.  However that is pretty unlikely, but with four quality starters that we can make a legitimate run at the title with once they develop some, there is absolutely no need to make reckless trades on other guys.

Stay the course, weather the rebuilding era with our youth with the knowledge that it will get better pretty quickly.   Wade is already over the hill and with Durant/Westbrook not knowing how to play defense, they will always be beatable.   With the Knicks still a three point show team that doesn't play playoff defense, the only thing in our way is Lebron.  Lebron is great but we saw in Cleveland he can't do it alone.

Rondo and Sullinger both just suffered season ending injuries and face uncertain recoveries.  Rondo will most likely be fine in due time.  Sullinger might suffer from back issues his entire career for all we know.

That said, I wouldn't put that four man group of players over very many of the four man groups in the league, or young four man groups.  Plenty of teams have groups as capable as that foursome.


Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2013, 03:53:33 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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So wait a second.....injured rondo, sully and a healthy green Bradley will be able to contend, but wade is old, Lebrun is beatable, the Knicks are nothing and okc can be beaten? Lol
Yeah, I find this pretty comical. Sure, that's a solid group of players. But it's missing a franchise guy that would be the best player and go-to guy on your team.

So you pretty much need to add someone like a healthy Andrew Bynum before you can contend for anything.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2013, 03:57:31 PM »

Offline tonyto3690

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So wait a second.....injured rondo, sully and a healthy green Bradley will be able to contend, but wade is old, Lebrun is beatable, the Knicks are nothing and okc can be beaten? Lol

The post was clearly talking about the future.  Otherwise KG and Pierce would have been included and obvious Sullinger and Rondo would not have.

Not sure how you could possibly miss something so obvious.
Rondo and Sullinger both just suffered season ending injuries and face uncertain recoveries.  Rondo will most likely be fine in due time.  Sullinger might suffer from back issues his entire career for all we know.

That said, I wouldn't put that four man group of players over very many of the four man groups in the league, or young four man groups.  Plenty of teams have groups as capable as that foursome.
Again, this for the future not for now.

Who?  Besides the Thunder, I don't really see anyone close in terms of young franchise talent to build around.  The Sixers?  Pacers?  Kings?  The Sixers want to blow it up.  The Pacers still can't score and the Kings are a joke.

Against the Thunder we match up pretty well with Bradley and Rondo vs Westbrook and Green against Durant who can at least hope to not give up 50 against him.   

And then there are the Heat who with Wades decline already don't look as good as they did last season.  I fully expect them to turn it up a notch in the playoffs and Lebron is playing better than ever, but 2 or 3 years down the road?  When Wade's contract is a massive burden on the team's cap and he is old and slow and can't rely on his athleticism?  It comes down to, can our team hold on against Lebron, and with Green I say yes.

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2013, 03:59:34 PM »

Offline tonyto3690

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So wait a second.....injured rondo, sully and a healthy green Bradley will be able to contend, but wade is old, Lebrun is beatable, the Knicks are nothing and okc can be beaten? Lol
Yeah, I find this pretty comical. Sure, that's a solid group of players. But it's missing a franchise guy that would be the best player and go-to guy on your team.

So you pretty much need to add someone like a healthy Andrew Bynum before you can contend for anything.
I disagree.  I think between Rondo and Green they can carry that load.  You don't need to have a Durant to win a championship.  Playoff Rondo would have been the best team on that Pistons squad and I am extremely high on Greens upside.  He won't ever be Pierce but he can be a 20 point scorer that can get us buckets when we need them.

I also think Bradley is struggling right now on offense and is going to be playing way better when he FINALLY gets a full offseason to train and work on his shot.  He was shooting ~50% from 3 last year as a starter and has struggled heavily this season.  He's shown the ability to also blow by anyone in the NBA to get to the rim but hasn't this season, he's been tentative.  Beyond his shoulders I'm convinced he's hiding another injury because his defense has also suffered.

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2013, 04:01:22 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sullinger is a great 1-4 group.   All of them can play great defense, Green is a decent rebounder at the 3 and Sullinger and Rondo are obviously natural talents there.  All of them are good passers and play well together.

All that remains is developing them.  We need to maintain this style of offense when Rondo gets back and that means him being able to play off the ball and be a real threat as a shooter.  We can't go back to Green and Bradley sitting in the corners.   They have too much talent and potential for us to waste.

In a dream world, we sign Oden and he miraculously able to stay healthy and we have a great young starting 5 that can play defense.  However that is pretty unlikely, but with four quality starters that we can make a legitimate run at the title with once they develop some, there is absolutely no need to make reckless trades on other guys.

Stay the course, weather the rebuilding era with our youth with the knowledge that it will get better pretty quickly.   Wade is already over the hill and with Durant/Westbrook not knowing how to play defense, they will always be beatable.   With the Knicks still a three point show team that doesn't play playoff defense, the only thing in our way is Lebron.  Lebron is great but we saw in Cleveland he can't do it alone.

Been saying this all along. Best-case-scenario, it's already filled out when Melo becomes a starter-worthy 5.
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Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2013, 04:02:51 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Assuming Rondo and Sullinger fully recover to former shape / ability (which is not guaranteed) what we have is one second tier star, a somewhat overpaid athletic but overall quite average starter, and two role players who project as above average starters on a good team.

None of them is a "franchise" guy.

What we do have is three solid young assets, and a guy who is probably an okay value if he's starting and playing 35+ minutes a night exclusively at SF.
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Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2013, 04:04:21 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2013, 04:07:19 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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So wait a second.....injured rondo, sully and a healthy green Bradley will be able to contend, but wade is old, Lebrun is beatable, the Knicks are nothing and okc can be beaten? Lol
Yeah, I find this pretty comical. Sure, that's a solid group of players. But it's missing a franchise guy that would be the best player and go-to guy on your team.

So you pretty much need to add someone like a healthy Andrew Bynum before you can contend for anything.

Exactly!  Rondo is a good 2nd/3rd guy, but the rest are really good role players -- 4th best players on a very good team kind of guys.  With a real franchise guy in the mix, those 4 could be very good complements.

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2013, 04:11:02 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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So wait a second.....injured rondo, sully and a healthy green Bradley will be able to contend, but wade is old, Lebrun is beatable, the Knicks are nothing and okc can be beaten? Lol
Yeah, I find this pretty comical. Sure, that's a solid group of players. But it's missing a franchise guy that would be the best player and go-to guy on your team.

So you pretty much need to add someone like a healthy Andrew Bynum before you can contend for anything.

Exactly!  Rondo is a good 2nd/3rd guy, but the rest are really good role players -- 4th best players on a very good team kind of guys.  With a real franchise guy in the mix, those 4 could be very good compliments.
Precisely my point. If you look at Rondo-Green-Sullinger-Bradley as guys 2 to 5 (in this order), then you're better than what most of the teams in the league have.

The problem is that finding a real franchise guy isn't easy -- and it's even more complicated if you want this guy to be a center.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2013, 04:17:09 PM »

Offline celtsfan84

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So wait a second.....injured rondo, sully and a healthy green Bradley will be able to contend, but wade is old, Lebrun is beatable, the Knicks are nothing and okc can be beaten? Lol
Yeah, I find this pretty comical. Sure, that's a solid group of players. But it's missing a franchise guy that would be the best player and go-to guy on your team.

So you pretty much need to add someone like a healthy Andrew Bynum before you can contend for anything.

Exactly!  Rondo is a good 2nd/3rd guy, but the rest are really good role players -- 4th best players on a very good team kind of guys.  With a real franchise guy in the mix, those 4 could be very good compliments.
Precisely my point. If you look at Rondo-Green-Sullinger-Bradley as guys 2 to 5 (in this order), then you're better than what most of the teams in the league have.

The problem is that finding a real franchise guy isn't easy -- and it's even more complicated if you want this guy to be a center.

Also keep in mind that to get a top level guy (or another top level guy if you consider Rondo a franchise player), you'll likely have to trade from this group of players.

I look at the other three names on that list and see role players.  Good ones, but role players.

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2013, 04:18:48 PM »

Offline celtsfan84

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So wait a second.....injured rondo, sully and a healthy green Bradley will be able to contend, but wade is old, Lebrun is beatable, the Knicks are nothing and okc can be beaten? Lol
Yeah, I find this pretty comical. Sure, that's a solid group of players. But it's missing a franchise guy that would be the best player and go-to guy on your team.

So you pretty much need to add someone like a healthy Andrew Bynum before you can contend for anything.
I disagree.  I think between Rondo and Green they can carry that load.  You don't need to have a Durant to win a championship.  Playoff Rondo would have been the best team on that Pistons squad and I am extremely high on Greens upside.  He won't ever be Pierce but he can be a 20 point scorer that can get us buckets when we need them.

I also think Bradley is struggling right now on offense and is going to be playing way better when he FINALLY gets a full offseason to train and work on his shot.  He was shooting ~50% from 3 last year as a starter and has struggled heavily this season.  He's shown the ability to also blow by anyone in the NBA to get to the rim but hasn't this season, he's been tentative.  Beyond his shoulders I'm convinced he's hiding another injury because his defense has also suffered.

That Pistons team is the exception, not the rule.

Plus, Rondo is as good as any starter on that Pistons team you are referring to.  No one else is.  I'd take Billups, Hamilton, Rasheed, Ben, and Tayshaun over Green, Bradley, and Sullinger any day of the week.

Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2013, 04:58:54 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I appreciate the optimism, but I can't agree with the first sentence.


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Re: We already have four of our franchise starters on payroll
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2013, 05:09:28 PM »

Offline lightspeed5

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Rondo-Bradley-Green-Sullinger is a great 1-4 group.   All of them can play great defense, Green is a decent rebounder at the 3 and Sullinger and Rondo are obviously natural talents there.  All of them are good passers and play well together.

All that remains is developing them.  We need to maintain this style of offense when Rondo gets back and that means him being able to play off the ball and be a real threat as a shooter.  We can't go back to Green and Bradley sitting in the corners.   They have too much talent and potential for us to waste.

In a dream world, we sign Oden and he miraculously able to stay healthy and we have a great young starting 5 that can play defense.  However that is pretty unlikely, but with four quality starters that we can make a legitimate run at the title with once they develop some, there is absolutely no need to make reckless trades on other guys.

Stay the course, weather the rebuilding era with our youth with the knowledge that it will get better pretty quickly.   Wade is already over the hill and with Durant/Westbrook not knowing how to play defense, they will always be beatable.   With the Knicks still a three point show team that doesn't play playoff defense, the only thing in our way is Lebron.  Lebron is great but we saw in Cleveland he can't do it alone.

Rondo and Sullinger both just suffered season ending injuries and face uncertain recoveries.  Rondo will most likely be fine in due time.  Sullinger might suffer from back issues his entire career for all we know.

That said, I wouldn't put that four man group of players over very many of the four man groups in the league, or young four man groups.  Plenty of teams have groups as capable as that foursome.
doctors said long term, sullinger should be fine and he should be able to gain some athleticism now. Sullinger may be able to literally jump higher now.