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[Chelm]

I know that ± stats are flawed in some way (in that they depend on units, not individuals) but from last night's game:

Mario Chalmers +41 in 34 minutes.
Norris Cole -28 in 16 minutes.

It seems, from this statistically insignificant data set, that Chalmers makes some sort of difference out there.  However, I didn't see the game.  Can anyone confirm/deny any visual impact that would shed some light on this?  Thoughts?

[PhoSita]

Chalmers plays with their great starting lineup.

Cole plays with their horrid bench.

There's your answer.

[Chelm]

Chalmers plays with their great starting lineup.

Cole plays with their horrid bench.

There's your answer.

If that was true, then why does Lebron only post a +21?

[Birdman]

I could play PG if i had LeBron, Bosh, and Wade

[pearljammer10]

Chalmers plays with their great starting lineup.

Cole plays with their horrid bench.

There's your answer.

If that was true, then why does Lebron only post a +21?

Only?

The above is your answer.

[BballTim]

I know that ± stats are flawed in some way (in that they depend on units, not individuals) but from last night's game:

Mario Chalmers +41 in 34 minutes.
Norris Cole -28 in 16 minutes.

It seems, from this statistically insignificant data set, that Chalmers makes some sort of difference out there.  However, I didn't see the game.  Can anyone confirm/deny any visual impact that would shed some light on this?  Thoughts?

  Those +/- numbers are incredibly noisy. I think that's the real takeaway from those numbers.

[timobusa]

I could play PG if i had LeBron, Bosh, and Wade

Hahaha! Me too! For real.
I won't even have to shoot.

[Chelm]

Chalmers plays with their great starting lineup.

Cole plays with their horrid bench.

There's your answer.

If that was true, then why does Lebron only post a +21?

Only?

The above is your answer.

My point being that if we assume that all of Chalmers' minutes were with Lebron (+21 on 39 minutes) on the court, that Lebron was -20 in the 5 minutes Chalmers was on the bench, which is pretty significant.

[kozlodoev]

My point being that if we assume that all of Chalmers' minutes were with Lebron (+21 on 39 minutes) on the court, that Lebron was -20 in the 5 minutes Chalmers was on the bench, which is pretty significant.

One game is not "significant" in any form or shape.

[mmmmm]

Chalmers plays with their great starting lineup.

Cole plays with their horrid bench.

There's your answer.

If that was true, then why does Lebron only post a +21?

Because Lebron plays more minutes than the rest of the starters ... and even HE is dragged down by their horrid bench ...

Food for thought:

Lebron has played 38.4 mpg this year in all 49 of Miami's games - in other words, he's played almost 80% of Miami's minutes. (a little less because I'm ignoring OT games).

Lebron's individual ORtg is a ridiculous 124 points per 100 possessions and his DRtg is 103 (using basketball-reference.com numbers).   Which means that for every 100 possessions he's been on the floor, the Heat are outscoring their opponents by a freakish +21!

For almost 80% of all their minutes.

But the Miami Heat's team ORtg is 112.3 and it's DRtg is just 105.4.   For a NetRtg of just +6.9!

Now, +6.9 is still a very good NetRtg for a team.  That definitely makes them a contender.

But boy, does that team suck in the ~20% of their minutes when Lebron is not on the floor.

If Lebron got injured - forget it.  That team would be toast.  Even with him, they aren't a lock, unless Lebron plays 48 mpg.

[Moranis]

Chalmers plays with their great starting lineup.

Cole plays with their horrid bench.

There's your answer.

no one else on the bench was worse than -9.  Bosh was at +34, but no other starter was greater than +21.  The Chalmers to Norris thing is quite astonishing when you take the entire context.  It is just 1 game though.

[Chelm]

My point being that if we assume that all of Chalmers' minutes were with Lebron (+21 on 39 minutes) on the court, that Lebron was -20 in the 5 minutes Chalmers was on the bench, which is pretty significant.

One game is not "significant" in any form or shape.

I stated this in my OP; one game is not significant.  But it's still interesting to examine individual games for what they bring.  Wilt didn't average 100 points a game, but we still talk about the one that he did.  If we didn't discuss intricacies of individual games, why have a forum at all?

[PhoSita]

Chalmers plays with their great starting lineup.

Cole plays with their horrid bench.

There's your answer.

no one else on the bench was worse than -9.  Bosh was at +34, but no other starter was greater than +21.  The Chalmers to Norris thing is quite astonishing when you take the entire context.  It is just 1 game though.

There is a pretty sizable difference in value between Chalmers and Norris.  Norris is a fringe NBA player.  Not in the rotation on most teams.  Chalmers is a solid if unremarkable point guard who's at his best when expectations of him are lowest.

[BballTim]

My point being that if we assume that all of Chalmers' minutes were with Lebron (+21 on 39 minutes) on the court, that Lebron was -20 in the 5 minutes Chalmers was on the bench, which is pretty significant.

One game is not "significant" in any form or shape.

I stated this in my OP; one game is not significant.  But it's still interesting to examine individual games for what they bring.  Wilt didn't average 100 points a game, but we still talk about the one that he did.  If we didn't discuss intricacies of individual games, why have a forum at all?

  Chalmers didn't score 100 in this game either. He played 34 minutes and had 5 points, 2 boards, 4 assists and a steal. He isn't even the primary ball handler on offense. What would you think he could have possibly done to influence the outcome of the game to the extent his +/- numbers are showing?

[Chelm]

My point being that if we assume that all of Chalmers' minutes were with Lebron (+21 on 39 minutes) on the court, that Lebron was -20 in the 5 minutes Chalmers was on the bench, which is pretty significant.

One game is not "significant" in any form or shape.

I stated this in my OP; one game is not significant.  But it's still interesting to examine individual games for what they bring.  Wilt didn't average 100 points a game, but we still talk about the one that he did.  If we didn't discuss intricacies of individual games, why have a forum at all?

  Chalmers didn't score 100 in this game either. He played 34 minutes and had 5 points, 2 boards, 4 assists and a steal. He isn't even the primary ball handler on offense. What would you think he could have possibly done to influence the outcome of the game to the extent his +/- numbers are showing?

I don't know, hence the thread.