Author Topic: Ryan not optimistic Rondo will learn  (Read 5071 times)

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Re: Ryan not optimistic Rondo will learn
« Reply #75 on: February 14, 2013, 12:57:32 AM »

Offline droopdog7

  • Don Chaney
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  • Posts: 1972
  • Tommy Points: 133
I am not saying Rondo CAN'T change.  I am not saying Rondo Won'T change.  Because frankly, I really have no idea.

But here is the important question.  If Rondo DID change, then what kind of value would he bring to the team.  Off thd ball, he isn't really very much help at all to the team.  Guys will double off of him and his presence will probably hurt the offense more than it helps.

So basically, we either committ to Rondo and let him be Rondo or we don't.

  First of all Rondo wouldn't really be off the ball that much, he'd be one of the primary ball handlers in this offense. Secondly it's not really the case that defenders stay close to the other guards when they don't have the ball. That's why you get open shots with this offense.

  Also, if Rondo gets left completely open we'll be in great shape when he gets the ball and he's wide open, he can shoot or pass or drive. All nonsense aside, there's no way any team would consider players like Lee or Bradley to be bigger offensive threats than Rondo.
Are you indicating that defenses don't completely ignore Rondo when he doesn't have the ball?  That they don't completely clog the middle every chance they get?  Or that they don't play Lee or Bradley more honestly when they don't have the ball than they do Rondo. 

Because that is what I see.

  I think you're kidding yourself if you think that people stick with players like Bradley and Lee when they don't have the ball. Heck, watch all the wide open shots KG gets, he's standing still on the perimeter without anyone close enough to him to challenge his shot when he gets a pass.
You are completely missing the point.  I know defenders aren't sticking to Bradley and lee when they don't have the ball.  They wouldn't be playing team defense if they did.  But they are within a few steps and only leave those guys when the defense is compromised.  If someone beats their man, certainly they come down to prevent penetration.

That is NOT what happens when rondo.  In many cases, defenders are nowhere near him.  They overplay the guy with the ball and don't even bother trying to close out if rondo does get the ball.

Like I said, rondo is a different creature completely off the ball than lee and Bradley.  If you can't see that I'm not sure what to say.

This is false.  Nobody completely ignores Rondo whether the ball is in his hands or not.  You simply don't forget about the other team's best player, even if he's not a great shooter. 

My pet peeve (and it's not just as it pertains to Rondo) is when falsehoods get restated so many times that everybody starts to think they are true.
Okay, speaking of falsehoods, rondo isn't our best player.  Or at least, he isnt our most important.  And yes, when you have a weakness like rondo has, you most certainly can ignore him off the ball.  Thats what makes him such a unique player.  Just because you say it doesn't happen doesn't make it true. 

Re: Ryan not optimistic Rondo will learn
« Reply #76 on: February 14, 2013, 01:04:07 AM »

Offline droopdog7

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1972
  • Tommy Points: 133
I am not saying Rondo CAN'T change.  I am not saying Rondo Won'T change.  Because frankly, I really have no idea.

But here is the important question.  If Rondo DID change, then what kind of value would he bring to the team.  Off thd ball, he isn't really very much help at all to the team.  Guys will double off of him and his presence will probably hurt the offense more than it helps.

So basically, we either committ to Rondo and let him be Rondo or we don't.

  First of all Rondo wouldn't really be off the ball that much, he'd be one of the primary ball handlers in this offense. Secondly it's not really the case that defenders stay close to the other guards when they don't have the ball. That's why you get open shots with this offense.

  Also, if Rondo gets left completely open we'll be in great shape when he gets the ball and he's wide open, he can shoot or pass or drive. All nonsense aside, there's no way any team would consider players like Lee or Bradley to be bigger offensive threats than Rondo.
Are you indicating that defenses don't completely ignore Rondo when he doesn't have the ball?  That they don't completely clog the middle every chance they get?  Or that they don't play Lee or Bradley more honestly when they don't have the ball than they do Rondo. 

Because that is what I see.

  I think you're kidding yourself if you think that people stick with players like Bradley and Lee when they don't have the ball. Heck, watch all the wide open shots KG gets, he's standing still on the perimeter without anyone close enough to him to challenge his shot when he gets a pass.
You are completely missing the point.  I know defenders aren't sticking to Bradley and lee when they don't have the ball.  They wouldn't be playing team defense if they did.  But they are within a few steps and only leave those guys when the defense is compromised.  If someone beats their man, certainly they come down to prevent penetration.

That is NOT what happens when rondo.  In many cases, defenders are nowhere near him.  They overplay the guy with the ball and don't even bother trying to close out if rondo does get the ball.

Like I said, rondo is a different creature completely off the ball than lee and Bradley.  If you can't see that I'm not sure what to say.

  You're talking about a different kind of playing off the ball. Rondo wouldn't be standing in the corner while PP or someone else runs the offense for a play or two, he'll still be handling the ball quite a bit, making cuts and running off of screens.
Maybe.  I think we can agree that rondo standing in the corner isn't a good idea.  And I know the ball would still be in rondos hands a lot.  But we are clearly saying here is that the ball should be in his hands less than it is now.  My point is, because rondo doesn't bring all that much when he's off the ball, and he in fact can be a detriment, then I am not sure that change will work.

In turns of him running off screens and such, I don't know.  We're still talking about putting him in a situation that he is not accustomed to.  Running someone like ray off screens pose a serious threat to the defense.  Running rondo off screens, not so much.  Can he cut like like Bradley?  Perhaps.  But now were talking about turning him ins Bradley.

Re: Ryan not optimistic Rondo will learn
« Reply #77 on: February 14, 2013, 04:49:33 AM »

Offline celtics2

  • Rajon Rondo
  • Posts: 847
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Ryan is right on. Rondo should be considering an attitude change. He has the skills to be the leader of this team. Just has his priorities mixed up. The Celts are fun to watch again. Spirited and united offensively and defensively. Well, at least as much as they can given the cards they have to play. That's all I'm asking for until a breakthrough comes around. Bradley has a gift to pick up spirits of those around him. This is no fluke. It is the second time he has done it in his career with the Celts.
Let Rondo sit and learn till he gets it.

Re: Ryan not optimistic Rondo will learn
« Reply #78 on: February 14, 2013, 07:35:02 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Sam Jones
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  • Posts: 22632
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I am not saying Rondo CAN'T change.  I am not saying Rondo Won'T change.  Because frankly, I really have no idea.

But here is the important question.  If Rondo DID change, then what kind of value would he bring to the team.  Off thd ball, he isn't really very much help at all to the team.  Guys will double off of him and his presence will probably hurt the offense more than it helps.

So basically, we either committ to Rondo and let him be Rondo or we don't.

  First of all Rondo wouldn't really be off the ball that much, he'd be one of the primary ball handlers in this offense. Secondly it's not really the case that defenders stay close to the other guards when they don't have the ball. That's why you get open shots with this offense.

  Also, if Rondo gets left completely open we'll be in great shape when he gets the ball and he's wide open, he can shoot or pass or drive. All nonsense aside, there's no way any team would consider players like Lee or Bradley to be bigger offensive threats than Rondo.
Are you indicating that defenses don't completely ignore Rondo when he doesn't have the ball?  That they don't completely clog the middle every chance they get?  Or that they don't play Lee or Bradley more honestly when they don't have the ball than they do Rondo. 

Because that is what I see.

  I think you're kidding yourself if you think that people stick with players like Bradley and Lee when they don't have the ball. Heck, watch all the wide open shots KG gets, he's standing still on the perimeter without anyone close enough to him to challenge his shot when he gets a pass.
You are completely missing the point.  I know defenders aren't sticking to Bradley and lee when they don't have the ball.  They wouldn't be playing team defense if they did.  But they are within a few steps and only leave those guys when the defense is compromised.  If someone beats their man, certainly they come down to prevent penetration.

That is NOT what happens when rondo.  In many cases, defenders are nowhere near him.  They overplay the guy with the ball and don't even bother trying to close out if rondo does get the ball.

Like I said, rondo is a different creature completely off the ball than lee and Bradley.  If you can't see that I'm not sure what to say.

This is false.  Nobody completely ignores Rondo whether the ball is in his hands or not.  You simply don't forget about the other team's best player, even if he's not a great shooter. 

My pet peeve (and it's not just as it pertains to Rondo) is when falsehoods get restated so many times that everybody starts to think they are true.
Okay, speaking of falsehoods, rondo isn't our best player.  Or at least, he isnt our most important.  And yes, when you have a weakness like rondo has, you most certainly can ignore him off the ball.  Thats what makes him such a unique player.  Just because you say it doesn't happen doesn't make it true.

  Rondo's been our best player for a while. Saying he isn't our most valuable is IMO fairly silly. KG is obviously our most valuable player but that's due to the rest of the roster, he's quite a bit more valuable than he was before his knee injury when he was an MVP candidate.

Re: Ryan not optimistic Rondo will learn
« Reply #79 on: February 14, 2013, 07:55:01 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Sam Jones
  • **********************
  • Posts: 22632
  • Tommy Points: 1041
I am not saying Rondo CAN'T change.  I am not saying Rondo Won'T change.  Because frankly, I really have no idea.

But here is the important question.  If Rondo DID change, then what kind of value would he bring to the team.  Off thd ball, he isn't really very much help at all to the team.  Guys will double off of him and his presence will probably hurt the offense more than it helps.

So basically, we either committ to Rondo and let him be Rondo or we don't.

  First of all Rondo wouldn't really be off the ball that much, he'd be one of the primary ball handlers in this offense. Secondly it's not really the case that defenders stay close to the other guards when they don't have the ball. That's why you get open shots with this offense.

  Also, if Rondo gets left completely open we'll be in great shape when he gets the ball and he's wide open, he can shoot or pass or drive. All nonsense aside, there's no way any team would consider players like Lee or Bradley to be bigger offensive threats than Rondo.
Are you indicating that defenses don't completely ignore Rondo when he doesn't have the ball?  That they don't completely clog the middle every chance they get?  Or that they don't play Lee or Bradley more honestly when they don't have the ball than they do Rondo. 

Because that is what I see.

  I think you're kidding yourself if you think that people stick with players like Bradley and Lee when they don't have the ball. Heck, watch all the wide open shots KG gets, he's standing still on the perimeter without anyone close enough to him to challenge his shot when he gets a pass.
You are completely missing the point.  I know defenders aren't sticking to Bradley and lee when they don't have the ball.  They wouldn't be playing team defense if they did.  But they are within a few steps and only leave those guys when the defense is compromised.  If someone beats their man, certainly they come down to prevent penetration.

That is NOT what happens when rondo.  In many cases, defenders are nowhere near him.  They overplay the guy with the ball and don't even bother trying to close out if rondo does get the ball.

Like I said, rondo is a different creature completely off the ball than lee and Bradley.  If you can't see that I'm not sure what to say.

  You're talking about a different kind of playing off the ball. Rondo wouldn't be standing in the corner while PP or someone else runs the offense for a play or two, he'll still be handling the ball quite a bit, making cuts and running off of screens.
Maybe.  I think we can agree that rondo standing in the corner isn't a good idea.  And I know the ball would still be in rondos hands a lot.  But we are clearly saying here is that the ball should be in his hands less than it is now.  My point is, because rondo doesn't bring all that much when he's off the ball, and he in fact can be a detriment, then I am not sure that change will work.

In turns of him running off screens and such, I don't know.  We're still talking about putting him in a situation that he is not accustomed to.  Running someone like ray off screens pose a serious threat to the defense.  Running rondo off screens, not so much.  Can he cut like like Bradley?  Perhaps.  But now were talking about turning him ins Bradley.

  Again, he'll have the ball in his hands more than Lee or Bradley or Terry do now. He's not going to be spending much time off the ball, just for a couple of passes at a time. We'll still want to have the ball in his hands quite a bit as he's the best ball handler, passer and creator on the team and, when he puts his mind to it, a better scorer than Lee or Bradley as well.

 

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