Author Topic: Pick 2: Draft Order (order for Coaches round posted on pg 204)  (Read 114546 times)

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Offline ronaldo943

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order (order for Coaches round posted on pg 204)
« Reply #3300 on: February 24, 2013, 08:29:11 PM »
A piece of advice for some of the new gm's, and feel free to ignore me if you want.   If you propose a trade consider it like yahoo fantasy sports, once it's proposed, if the proposal is accepted the deal is consummated.  Once it is accepted is not the time that you consider whether or not you want to do it or shop for better offers

Exactly I've already had 2 guys do this to me but since its the Pick2 i guess you just have to let it slide

Is it bad to drop at the last second? Happens all the time in the real NBA

If you have both agree to it yes.

Its like i tell you will you do

Kobe/Duncan

for

Lebron/Howard

And you say yes i cant be like oh i wont do it i got a better offer when i was the one who proposed it to you

So the GM who offered me Klay Thompson for some middle round picks should have been forced to go through with it? I would have liked it but it didn't happen.

As I've told people, play the team you have, not the one you might have if a trade happens.

See what your saying is if someone else does it then i can do it, two wrongs dont make a right

I don't remember writing those words. My point was it's not an isolated incident by or against one person. It's not ideal for anyone involved.

And what;s the difference between offering player A and B as opposed to asking how they feel about doing a trade for players A and B? Both sound like an offer to me and I know this can be confusing. Perhaps work in a draft rule regarding trade talk lingo?

Offering is a statement so if a person says yes it should be done
Asking how they feel is a question
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Offline Roy H.

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order (order for Coaches round posted on pg 204)
« Reply #3301 on: February 24, 2013, 08:34:45 PM »
And what;s the difference between offering player A and B as opposed to asking how they feel about doing a trade for players A and B? Both sound like an offer to me and I know this can be confusing. Perhaps work in a draft rule regarding trade talk lingo?

In the example I gave, it was the "I'm not sure if I'd do this" part that makes it non-binding.  That clearly conveys that you're brainstorming, rather than making a binding offer.

I've had plenty of experience with trades over the years, and I think it's very important to 1) be clear when making trade proposals, and 2) stick to your word. 

The only way I can see backing out of a deal would be if you had a typo, and somebody accepted a deal you clearly didn't want to make.  Otherwise, I think you are at least morally bound to go through with a deal, even if you're having second thoughts.

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Offline KGs Knee

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order (order for Coaches round posted on pg 204)
« Reply #3302 on: February 24, 2013, 08:41:58 PM »
The only way I can see backing out of a deal would be if you had a typo, and somebody accepted a deal you clearly didn't want to make.  Otherwise, I think you are at least morally bound to go through with a deal, even if you're having second thoughts.

I'd add to this, if a stipulation is added that making a specific deal is dependant on another deal you have lined up going through, and are clear about it, there shouldn't be any hard feelings, nor are you "morally bound".
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Offline IndeedProceed

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order (order for Coaches round posted on pg 204)
« Reply #3303 on: February 24, 2013, 08:51:28 PM »
I've offered a package before and reconsidered it. If you feel like you don't want it, say so. Immediately after you doubt the offer.

Officially, trades aren't final until the confirmations are sent in. Unofficially making offers then refusing your proposal after someone accepted it without attempting to make them aware youre no longer in favor of it, or canceling after accepting a trade is poor form and is strongly discouraged. We like to try to operate on good faith here.

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Offline CelticConcourse

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order (order for Coaches round posted on pg 204)
« Reply #3304 on: February 24, 2013, 08:57:36 PM »
I feel like if you offered a trade, but cancelled it before they accepted it... it's fine.

To be honest, I really think you can drop out of the deal any time before you send the confirmation message. If you send it, it's done. But, if you both agreed to it and one person didn't send a confirmation, said person should still be able to cancel.

It's not very nice, but it makes sense (to me at least). ;D

I did it once, because somebody accepted my deal too fast (sorry Truthfot) and it didn't feel right. If someone says "Yea" in like 5 seconds, it usually means it's so obviously favored towards them that they need to get the deal done ASAP.

Another time, I had a great deal but said that I wanted to think it over. When I finally said, "Let's do the deal," they cancelled it (that's you, AB!) and I didn't get my great deal :( But he should have been able to. I'm not against it (even though I'd have a cheaper PG and a star instead of Greivis)

So... yea. I think you should be able to withdraw anytime prior to messaging Roy (or other mod)
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Offline StartOrien

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order (order for Coaches round posted on pg 204)
« Reply #3305 on: February 24, 2013, 08:59:09 PM »
I've offered people debating the ethics of trade proposals a trade, and they continued to debate as opposed to respond to my inquiry.

Offline celticpride07

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order (order for Coaches round posted on pg 204)
« Reply #3306 on: February 24, 2013, 09:01:17 PM »
Speaking of trades kawhi or Wallace are available for a starting PF anyone?
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Offline CelticConcourse

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order (order for Coaches round posted on pg 204)
« Reply #3307 on: February 24, 2013, 09:01:45 PM »
Speaking of trades kawhi or Wallace are available for a starting PF anyone?

jeeez this is like the twentieth time
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Offline celticpride07

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order (order for Coaches round posted on pg 204)
« Reply #3308 on: February 24, 2013, 09:03:18 PM »
Speaking of trades kawhi or Wallace are available for a starting PF anyone?

jeeez this is like the twentieth time

Well make it the last ;D
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Offline Roy H.

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order (order for Coaches round posted on pg 204)
« Reply #3309 on: February 24, 2013, 09:06:21 PM »
Quote
To be honest, I really think you can drop out of the deal any time before you send the confirmation message. If you send it, it's done. But, if you both agreed to it and one person didn't send a confirmation, said person should still be able to cancel.

It's not very nice, but it makes sense (to me at least). ;D

I think this philosophy is a good way to get yourself black-listed by other GMs, or worse, targeted as a GM that others want to take advantage of.

It's dirty pool.  Not only is it not nice, it's inherently dishonest, and it creates grudges.

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Offline CelticConcourse

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order (order for Coaches round posted on pg 204)
« Reply #3310 on: February 24, 2013, 09:07:29 PM »
Quote
To be honest, I really think you can drop out of the deal any time before you send the confirmation message. If you send it, it's done. But, if you both agreed to it and one person didn't send a confirmation, said person should still be able to cancel.

It's not very nice, but it makes sense (to me at least). ;D

I think this philosophy is a good way to get yourself black-listed by other GMs, or worse, targeted as a GM that others want to take advantage of.

It's dirty pool.  Not only is it not nice, it's inherently dishonest, and it creates grudges.

Think about it this way. Say, Portland offered JJ Hickson for a Boston second-rounder at the very beginning of the season, way before his resurgence. Now, he's one of the best big-men in the league, a double-double machine. Can Boston simply accept the deal now, seeing that Portland offered this deal six months ago? NO. Portland gets time to reconsider the deal, and will, obviously, decline. Except, this isn't a period of six months, it's a period of an hour or two. However, it's the same thing. One person had agreed to a deal, but now the deal is two-hours old and sentiments have changed. Therefore, the offerer is no longer obligated to follow through on the deal.

(I'm not part of this! I only did it once! Don't put me on the no-trade list ;D)
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Offline TheTruthFot18

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order (order for Coaches round posted on pg 204)
« Reply #3311 on: February 24, 2013, 09:08:16 PM »
I feel like if you offered a trade, but cancelled it before they accepted it... it's fine.

To be honest, I really think you can drop out of the deal any time before you send the confirmation message. If you send it, it's done. But, if you both agreed to it and one person didn't send a confirmation, said person should still be able to cancel.

It's not very nice, but it makes sense (to me at least). ;D

I did it once, because somebody accepted my deal too fast (sorry Truthfot) and it didn't feel right. If someone says "Yea" in like 5 seconds, it usually means it's so obviously favored towards them that they need to get the deal done ASAP.

Another time, I had a great deal but said that I wanted to think it over. When I finally said, "Let's do the deal," they cancelled it (that's you, AB!) and I didn't get my great deal :( But he should have been able to. I'm not against it (even though I'd have a cheaper PG and a star instead of Greivis)

So... yea. I think you should be able to withdraw anytime prior to messaging Roy (or other mod)

See this is where I have the problem.

I send offers as a feeler since you never know if you'll hear back from them. You are correct CC, unless both parties send it to Roy or other mods, it can't really be official. Also for some reason I can't see my sent box so I forget most offers I send.
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Offline CelticConcourse

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order (order for Coaches round posted on pg 204)
« Reply #3312 on: February 24, 2013, 09:09:42 PM »
I feel like if you offered a trade, but cancelled it before they accepted it... it's fine.

To be honest, I really think you can drop out of the deal any time before you send the confirmation message. If you send it, it's done. But, if you both agreed to it and one person didn't send a confirmation, said person should still be able to cancel.

It's not very nice, but it makes sense (to me at least). ;D

I did it once, because somebody accepted my deal too fast (sorry Truthfot) and it didn't feel right. If someone says "Yea" in like 5 seconds, it usually means it's so obviously favored towards them that they need to get the deal done ASAP.

Another time, I had a great deal but said that I wanted to think it over. When I finally said, "Let's do the deal," they cancelled it (that's you, AB!) and I didn't get my great deal :( But he should have been able to. I'm not against it (even though I'd have a cheaper PG and a star instead of Greivis)

So... yea. I think you should be able to withdraw anytime prior to messaging Roy (or other mod)

See this is where I have the problem.

I send offers as a feeler since you never know if you'll hear back from them. You are correct CC, unless both parties send it to Roy or other mods, it can't really be official. Also for some reason I can't see my sent box so I forget most offers I send.

Yeah, me neither. I think there's a box you can check for "save a copy in my inbox" though. I am too lazy to use it, so when someone says "wait let me consider that deal" I always have to respond "what deal? O_o o_O"
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Offline Roy H.

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order (order for Coaches round posted on pg 204)
« Reply #3313 on: February 24, 2013, 09:10:46 PM »
Quote
To be honest, I really think you can drop out of the deal any time before you send the confirmation message. If you send it, it's done. But, if you both agreed to it and one person didn't send a confirmation, said person should still be able to cancel.

It's not very nice, but it makes sense (to me at least). ;D

I think this philosophy is a good way to get yourself black-listed by other GMs, or worse, targeted as a GM that others want to take advantage of.

It's dirty pool.  Not only is it not nice, it's inherently dishonest, and it creates grudges.

Think about it this way. Say, Portland offered JJ Hickson for a Boston second-rounder at the very beginning of the season, way before his resurgence. Now, he's one of the best big-men in the league, a double-double machine. Can Boston simply accept the deal now, seeing that Portland offered this deal six months ago? NO. Portland gets time to reconsider the deal, and will, obviously, decline. Except, this isn't a period of six months, it's a period of an hour or two. However, it's the same thing. One person had agreed to a deal, but now the deal is two-hours old and sentiments have changed. Therefore, the offerer is no longer obligated to follow through on the deal.

(I'm not part of this! I only did it once! Don't put me on the no-trade list ;D)

Again falling back on contract law, but an offer remains open until its rescinded.  If a deal is no longer on the table, do the other GM the courtesy of knowing that, especially if it was 5 minutes ago that you made the offer.

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Offline AB_Celtic

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order (order for Coaches round posted on pg 204)
« Reply #3314 on: February 24, 2013, 09:11:46 PM »
To break up the arguing, I'm gonna make my coach pick.

Lionel Hollins

He knows how to be a champion - won a title as a player - and he knows how to develop young talent and get them all headed in the right direction. I think he's a good fit with my players.

Plus, as airbelinelli will tell you, I have a weird obsession with the Grizzlies.
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