Author Topic: Pick 2: Draft Order (order for Coaches round posted on pg 204)  (Read 128176 times)

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order for teams and picks
« Reply #765 on: February 17, 2013, 02:35:31 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Would love to pick up a big man (please, no C that are currently out and have been hurt 5 of the last 6 seasons)
He's talking to you IP

Haha, yeah. I figured. The fact that he wasn't talking about a coach-killing lockerroom malcontent PG who has underperformed a max contact on a level not seen since Allan Houston was a huge tipoff.
Well Williams is a coach killing malcontent but I don't know about under performing a max contract to the extent you mentioned. Eddy Curry, Gilbert Arenas, Rasheed Lewis might fit better into that argument.

Ah, yeah...I might've skewed towards the hyperbolic there.

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order for teams and picks
« Reply #766 on: February 17, 2013, 02:43:12 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Funny, I always thought the best centers in the league could average more than 7 rebounds a game though

You know, I'd normally agree with you. But, between the Nets quiet success this year, Lopez's efficiency...he's not looking so bad.
This is why I think PER and other efficiency stats can be so flawed.

Let's face it the litmus test says Lopez isn't  the best center in the league. He's playing healthy and efficient but Howard, Duncan, Noah, Aldridge, Horford, KG, and Chandler are clearly better and Pekovic, Jefferson, Munroe, both Gasols and Gortat might be on the same level as Lopez.

I think Lopez is definitely having a great year but, again, this is why I think PER can be so flawed.
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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order for teams and picks
« Reply #767 on: February 17, 2013, 02:47:10 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Funny, I always thought the best centers in the league could average more than 7 rebounds a game though

You know, I'd normally agree with you. But, between the Nets quiet success this year, Lopez's efficiency...he's not looking so bad.
This is why I think PER and other efficiency stats can be so flawed.

Let's face it the litmus test says Lopez isn't  the best center in the league. He's playing healthy and efficient but Howard, Duncan, Noah, Aldridge, Horford, KG, and Chandler are clearly better and Pekovic, Jefferson, Munroe, both Gasols and Gortat might be on the same level as Lopez.

I think Lopez is definitely having a great year but, again, this is why I think PER can be so flawed.

Well, PER favors offensive efficiency more than anything, but there is something to be said for efficiency. If you look at the SIMPLE Rating (based off production vs opposing player production on the floor, coupled with on/off the court plus-minus), Lopez is still the second center on the list, only behind Tim Duncan.

This is obviously helped by the underrated team rebounding by the Nets, but still, bears mentioning.

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order for teams and picks
« Reply #768 on: February 17, 2013, 02:48:58 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Would love to pick up a big man (please, no C that are currently out and have been hurt 5 of the last 6 seasons)
He's talking to you IP

Haha, yeah. I figured. The fact that he wasn't talking about a coach-killing lockerroom malcontent PG who has underperformed a max contact on a level not seen since Allan Houston was a huge tipoff.
Well Williams is a coach killing malcontent but I don't know about under performing a max contract to the extent you mentioned. Eddy Curry, Gilbert Arenas, Rasheed Lewis might fit better into that argument.

Williams isnt playing so great this year
Lets correct this. He isn't playing up to his standards he played in in previous years. He's still playing pretty well though. 16.7/7.8/3.3/41%/35%/85% for not having his best year is still dang good.
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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order for teams and picks
« Reply #769 on: February 17, 2013, 02:53:44 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Funny, I always thought the best centers in the league could average more than 7 rebounds a game though

You know, I'd normally agree with you. But, between the Nets quiet success this year, Lopez's efficiency...he's not looking so bad.
This is why I think PER and other efficiency stats can be so flawed.

Let's face it the litmus test says Lopez isn't  the best center in the league. He's playing healthy and efficient but Howard, Duncan, Noah, Aldridge, Horford, KG, and Chandler are clearly better and Pekovic, Jefferson, Munroe, both Gasols and Gortat might be on the same level as Lopez.

I think Lopez is definitely having a great year but, again, this is why I think PER can be so flawed.

Haha, yeah...

This might be the 1st time ever I have been much of a fan of PER.  And, not that I should be giving this away, but basketball refernce tells a different story about Lopez.

In my opinion, he in the 2nd tier; behind Howard, KG, Duncan, Chandler, and equal to both Gasol's, Noah, Horford.

Not sure where to put Aldridge.  How much time does he spend at center?  Hasn't he been more effective at PF?


Re: Pick 2: Draft Order for teams and picks
« Reply #770 on: February 17, 2013, 02:55:33 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Would love to pick up a big man (please, no C that are currently out and have been hurt 5 of the last 6 seasons)
He's talking to you IP

Haha, yeah. I figured. The fact that he wasn't talking about a coach-killing lockerroom malcontent PG who has underperformed a max contact on a level not seen since Allan Houston was a huge tipoff.
Well Williams is a coach killing malcontent but I don't know about under performing a max contract to the extent you mentioned. Eddy Curry, Gilbert Arenas, Rasheed Lewis might fit better into that argument.

Williams isnt playing so great this year
Lets correct this. He isn't playing up to his standards he played in in previous years. He's still playing pretty well though. 16.7/7.8/3.3/41%/35%/85% for not having his best year is still dang good.

That 41/35 shooting percent mark is pretty fart-noisy to me. If you wanted to look at just the eastern conference PG's, based strictly on counting stat lines and FG%, Williams is pretty solidly behind Irving, LOwry, Holiday, Rondo, and Walker and Calderon.

Now I'm not saying it makes any sense to all those guys over Williams, just that Williams is still under performing while he's still mired in this shooting slump.

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order for teams and picks
« Reply #771 on: February 17, 2013, 02:59:59 PM »

Online Lucky17

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Aldridge has played some time at C these last two seasons, primarily in a small-ball lineup with an undersized/stretch PF (last year, Gerald Wallace and Nic Batum; this year, Luke Babbit).

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order for teams and picks
« Reply #772 on: February 17, 2013, 03:00:45 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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Second of all, I'm just picking up the beat where others have left off. I'm not the first guy to say he's the second best center in basketball.

Tell me, what are Hollinger's efficiency stats for Bynum this season? ;)

(In fantasy land, I do love the idea of Bynum and Irving together.  Of course, in fantasy land I love the idea of a dominant Greg Oden and Shaun Livingston together, too.)

To add to the analogy, in a fantasy land where Allen Iverson is a willing passer.

He's the Cowardly Lion. He's got no heart for this game.

Re: Pick 2: Draft Order for teams and picks
« Reply #773 on: February 17, 2013, 03:01:59 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Would love to pick up a big man (please, no C that are currently out and have been hurt 5 of the last 6 seasons)
He's talking to you IP

Haha, yeah. I figured. The fact that he wasn't talking about a coach-killing lockerroom malcontent PG who has underperformed a max contact on a level not seen since Allan Houston was a huge tipoff.
Well Williams is a coach killing malcontent but I don't know about under performing a max contract to the extent you mentioned. Eddy Curry, Gilbert Arenas, Rasheed Lewis might fit better into that argument.

Williams isnt playing so great this year
Lets correct this. He isn't playing up to his standards he played in in previous years. He's still playing pretty well though. 16.7/7.8/3.3/41%/35%/85% for not having his best year is still dang good.

That 41/35 shooting percent mark is pretty fart-noisy to me. If you wanted to look at just the eastern conference PG's, based strictly on counting stat lines and FG%, Williams is pretty solidly behind Irving, LOwry, Holiday, Rondo, and Walker and Calderon.

Now I'm not saying it makes any sense to all those guys over Williams, just that Williams is still under performing while he's still mired in this shooting slump.
I agree. He hasn't put up the best number since arriving at the cesspool that was NJ.

But he has been playing on nagging ankle injuries this year and if he can get past that, I think this year will be much better for him given his surrounding cast.

I think he needs an off season of resting and getting into the best shape he can to get back to where he should be because from some reports, he hasn't always done whatever he could to stay in the best shape.
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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order for teams and picks
« Reply #774 on: February 17, 2013, 03:11:24 PM »

Offline airbelinelli

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He does remind me of one of those players that could just continue this downward trend and just become irrelevant. It was a year ago people still could mention him in the same breath as CP3 and now he's being looked at with a whole new tier of PGs
He could still come back and make it but he's a big question mark to me especially on his contract

Re: Pick 2: Draft Order for teams and picks
« Reply #775 on: February 17, 2013, 03:12:31 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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He does remind me of one of those players that could just continue this downward trend and just become irrelevant. It was a year ago people still could mention him in the same breath as CP3 and now he's being looked at with a whole new tier of PGs
He could still come back and make it but he's a big question mark to me especially on his contract

Ya, this is how I feel about him too. Just a gut feeling, but I had him as an undraftable player.

Re: Pick 2: Draft Order for teams and picks
« Reply #776 on: February 17, 2013, 03:14:58 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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He does remind me of one of those players that could just continue this downward trend and just become irrelevant. It was a year ago people still could mention him in the same breath as CP3 and now he's being looked at with a whole new tier of PGs
He could still come back and make it but he's a big question mark to me especially on his contract

Ya, this is how I feel about him too. Just a gut feeling, but I had him as an undraftable player.

Yup. Not quite undraftable, but not a guy I felt great about.

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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order for teams and picks
« Reply #777 on: February 17, 2013, 03:25:19 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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He does remind me of one of those players that could just continue this downward trend and just become irrelevant. It was a year ago people still could mention him in the same breath as CP3 and now he's being looked at with a whole new tier of PGs
He could still come back and make it but he's a big question mark to me especially on his contract

Ya, this is how I feel about him too. Just a gut feeling, but I had him as an undraftable player.

Yup. Not quite undraftable, but not a guy I felt great about.

Well, he's certainly better than Joe Johnson.  and paid less too.

I can't wait to see how far Iso-Joe falls in the draft.

Re: Pick 2: Draft Order for teams and picks
« Reply #778 on: February 17, 2013, 03:29:22 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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He does remind me of one of those players that could just continue this downward trend and just become irrelevant. It was a year ago people still could mention him in the same breath as CP3 and now he's being looked at with a whole new tier of PGs
He could still come back and make it but he's a big question mark to me especially on his contract

Ya, this is how I feel about him too. Just a gut feeling, but I had him as an undraftable player.

Yup. Not quite undraftable, but not a guy I felt great about.
I don't agree. His "inefficient" shooting numbers this year are as good as or better than Jrue Holiday, Russell Westbrook, Rajon Rondo, Ty Lawson, Brandon Jennings, and a ton others.

You guys are right that Williams isn't 1A with Chris Paul and Derrick Rose anymore because of a couple poor seasons, but I think he's bouncing back this year and is still pretty easily a top 5-6 PG in the league
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Re: Pick 2: Draft Order for teams and picks
« Reply #779 on: February 17, 2013, 03:32:35 PM »

Offline ronaldo943

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He does remind me of one of those players that could just continue this downward trend and just become irrelevant. It was a year ago people still could mention him in the same breath as CP3 and now he's being looked at with a whole new tier of PGs
He could still come back and make it but he's a big question mark to me especially on his contract

Ya, this is how I feel about him too. Just a gut feeling, but I had him as an undraftable player.

Yup. Not quite undraftable, but not a guy I felt great about.
I don't agree. His "inefficient" shooting numbers this year are as good as or better than Jrue Holiday, Russell Westbrook, Rajon Rondo, Ty Lawson, Brandon Jennings, and a ton others.

You guys are right that Williams isn't 1A with Chris Paul and Derrick Rose anymore because of a couple poor seasons, but I think he's bouncing back this year and is still pretty easily a top 5-6 PG in the league

Paul
Rose
Rondo
Irving
Holiday
Curry
Westbrook
Parker

 

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