Author Topic: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins  (Read 3521 times)

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Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2013, 02:33:53 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Green was having a good game, that doesn't mean Doc is going to trust leaving him on the floor over Pierce. Especially when he wants someone to handle the ball, if he leaves Green in that means its Terry/AB who have to do that.

He should have been in the game in place of Bass.  Bass sucks.
Bass is a better defensive option to guard other big men.

Then Green or Pierce has to defend Mullens at the 4 as KG has Biyambo (or Pierce/Green have to guard Biyambo which isn't ideal either for rebounding purposes alone)

Mullens scored easily on both Green/Pierce in the post earlier in the game.

Bass didn't do so hot either though.  At least Green would have been able to counter-act whatever he gave up on defense with an ability to contribute on offense.  Bass has been giving us practically nothing of late.

Mostly, I am just at the point where I wish Bass would go away.  He is truly the only player on the team I don't like.
Well yeah we lost the game so clearly it didn't work. But Doc had the lead and wanted to match up defensively with the Bobcats, he also wanted Pierce on the floor to handle the ball.

Green guarding any of Mullens/Biyambo/Walker/Sessions is problematic. Sure he has an offensive mismatch on the other end, but I don't think Doc trusts Green to utilize that properly in crunch time. I don't blame him for that.

Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2013, 02:44:31 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Green was having a good game, that doesn't mean Doc is going to trust leaving him on the floor over Pierce. Especially when he wants someone to handle the ball, if he leaves Green in that means its Terry/AB who have to do that.

He should have been in the game in place of Bass.  Bass sucks.
Bass is a better defensive option to guard other big men.

Then Green or Pierce has to defend Mullens at the 4 as KG has Biyambo (or Pierce/Green have to guard Biyambo which isn't ideal either for rebounding purposes alone)

Mullens scored easily on both Green/Pierce in the post earlier in the game.

Bass didn't do so hot either though.  At least Green would have been able to counter-act whatever he gave up on defense with an ability to contribute on offense.  Bass has been giving us practically nothing of late.

Mostly, I am just at the point where I wish Bass would go away.  He is truly the only player on the team I don't like.
Well yeah we lost the game so clearly it didn't work. But Doc had the lead and wanted to match up defensively with the Bobcats, he also wanted Pierce on the floor to handle the ball.

Green guarding any of Mullens/Biyambo/Walker/Sessions is problematic. Sure he has an offensive mismatch on the other end, but I don't think Doc trusts Green to utilize that properly in crunch time. I don't blame him for that.

I'd say it's pretty pathetic if Doc is letting some scrub team like Charlotte dictate matchups. Not having our (current) 3rd best player on the court at the end of the game is inexcusable in my book.

Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2013, 02:46:29 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Absent any evidence that he is, in fact, on a minutes restriction, I am going to operate under the assumption he isn't.  He is well over a year removed from his surgery.
I assume that by "evidence" you mean an actual statement. Because there's plenty of evidence that the team is taking a somewhat cautious route with him.

He may be one year removed for cardiac surgery, but I'm not a doctor and not a professional athlete, so I can't tell you how much time is enough.

Even if he really can't play 30 minutes a game (which seems absurd to me), Doc should have taken him out a few minutes earlier and then brought him back for the last few in favor of Bass.
No-one said he can't play 30 minutes per game. But he did play  40+ minutes the night before, and has played 30+ minutes in consecutive minutes once this season (31 and 30)

Maybe he should have come back in earlier, but it's far from a given that "we would have won the game". He didn't show any ability to guard Mullens, who is 3 inches taller and 40 lbs heavier.
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Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2013, 02:54:18 PM »

Offline Cman

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I agree with the OP. Green should have stayed in, and PP and KG less minutes (I'm fine with Bass getting some of KG's minutes).
On the other hand, I'm not the coach, and Doc has done well by this team in the past, so I'll not Tuesday afternoon armchair QB this thing...
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Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2013, 03:05:03 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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It just seems to me we lost the game because we settled for jumpshots, instead of taking the ball to the basket.

Green has shown he is far better at this than Bass.  Heck, Wilcox is more likely to get an easy bucket than Bass is.

Not that Bass is the only player guilty of this, but unless Bass is on fire with his jumpshot, I don't ever like seing him on the court at the end of a close game.

I'm going to drop the arguement at this point.  Losing a back to back, after playing 3 OT's the previous game, is usually a tough situation anyway.  Just seemed like a loss that could have been avoided with better rotations, which has always been Doc's lone weak spot in my eyes.

Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2013, 03:48:14 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Not that Bass is the only player guilty of this, but unless Bass is on fire with his jumpshot, I don't ever like seing him on the court at the end of a close game.

Every statistical analysis I have seen suggests that there is no such thing as a "hot hand", so you can't predict how Bass will shoot in the fourth quarter based on his shooting in the previous three.  (One analysis even found that players are more likely to make a three-point shot after missing their previous three-point attempt than if they made their previous three-point attempt).

So a coach shouldn't make decisions based on the illusion of a "hot hand".  Whether or not to go with Bass at the end of game should be based on creating the more favorable matchups.
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Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2013, 04:05:47 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Not that Bass is the only player guilty of this, but unless Bass is on fire with his jumpshot, I don't ever like seing him on the court at the end of a close game.

Every statistical analysis I have seen suggests that there is no such thing as a "hot hand", so you can't predict how Bass will shoot in the fourth quarter based on his shooting in the previous three.  (One analysis even found that players are more likely to make a three-point shot after missing their previous three-point attempt than if they made their previous three-point attempt).

So a coach shouldn't make decisions based on the illusion of a "hot hand".  Whether or not to go with Bass at the end of game should be based on creating the more favorable matchups.

Junk math.  Pretty easy to tell when a player is "in the zone".

Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2013, 04:16:47 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Not that Bass is the only player guilty of this, but unless Bass is on fire with his jumpshot, I don't ever like seing him on the court at the end of a close game.

Every statistical analysis I have seen suggests that there is no such thing as a "hot hand", so you can't predict how Bass will shoot in the fourth quarter based on his shooting in the previous three.  (One analysis even found that players are more likely to make a three-point shot after missing their previous three-point attempt than if they made their previous three-point attempt).

So a coach shouldn't make decisions based on the illusion of a "hot hand".  Whether or not to go with Bass at the end of game should be based on creating the more favorable matchups.

Junk math.  Pretty easy to tell when a player is "in the zone".
Human memory sucks at evaluating such things. Just look at this thread, we had a claim that Paul Pierce shot us out of the game in the fourth.

But if you look at game's play by play he only took two shots in the fourth. One at 5:20 to go and another with 9 seconds left during desperation time.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 04:31:16 PM by Fafnir »

Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2013, 04:21:56 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Not that Bass is the only player guilty of this, but unless Bass is on fire with his jumpshot, I don't ever like seing him on the court at the end of a close game.

Every statistical analysis I have seen suggests that there is no such thing as a "hot hand", so you can't predict how Bass will shoot in the fourth quarter based on his shooting in the previous three.  (One analysis even found that players are more likely to make a three-point shot after missing their previous three-point attempt than if they made their previous three-point attempt).

So a coach shouldn't make decisions based on the illusion of a "hot hand".  Whether or not to go with Bass at the end of game should be based on creating the more favorable matchups.

Junk math.  Pretty easy to tell when a player is "in the zone".

That's the sort of (non-logical) reasoning that ESPN prefers in their talking heads.  I like being more fact-based.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

 

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