Author Topic: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins  (Read 3565 times)

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Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2013, 01:27:29 PM »

Offline Clench123

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Green entered with 4:20 left in the 1st quarter.  He leaves with 5:23 left in the 2nd.  He re-enters the game with 6:09 left in the 3rd before leaving with 6:03 left in the 4th.  He comes back with 25.7 seconds left in the game.

Which of these options are superior to what Doc actually did?
-Leave Green in for the rest of the game and play him 18 consecutive minutes?
-Leave Green in the game and take him out only when he has obviously run out of energy?  (And if you believe this, can you demonstrate that he hadn't reached that point yet?)
-Take Green out earlier with the intention of putting him back in for several minutes at the end of the game?
-Take Green out at roughly the same time, but give him 2-3 minutes rest then put him back in?

Valid point as well

Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2013, 01:29:03 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Green entered with 4:20 left in the 1st quarter.  He leaves with 5:23 left in the 2nd.  He re-enters the game with 6:09 left in the 3rd before leaving with 6:03 left in the 4th.  He comes back with 25.7 seconds left in the game.

Which of these options are superior to what Doc actually did?
-Leave Green in for the rest of the game and play him 18 consecutive minutes?
-Leave Green in the game and take him out only when he has obviously run out of energy?  (And if you believe this, can you demonstrate that he hadn't reached that point yet?)
-Take Green out earlier with the intention of putting him back in for several minutes at the end of the game?
-Take Green out at roughly the same time, but give him 2-3 minutes rest then put him back in?
And of course there is the question of whether Green is on strict minute restriction because of the heart surgery.
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Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2013, 01:50:53 PM »

Offline TitleMaster

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Green entered with 4:20 left in the 1st quarter.  He leaves with 5:23 left in the 2nd.  He re-enters the game with 6:09 left in the 3rd before leaving with 6:03 left in the 4th.  He comes back with 25.7 seconds left in the game.

Which of these options are superior to what Doc actually did?
-Leave Green in for the rest of the game and play him 18 consecutive minutes?
-Leave Green in the game and take him out only when he has obviously run out of energy?  (And if you believe this, can you demonstrate that he hadn't reached that point yet?)
-Take Green out earlier with the intention of putting him back in for several minutes at the end of the game?
-Take Green out at roughly the same time, but give him 2-3 minutes rest then put him back in?
And of course there is the question of whether Green is on strict minute restriction because of the heart surgery.

Green would be rolling out of bed, about an hour ago. And they don't play again till tomorrow night, so I don't see the problem with Doc, giving him the minutes. A younger player can easily recuperate in a 48 hour span.

Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2013, 01:56:34 PM »

Offline D Dub

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18 min straight?  c'mon.

there's a quarter break.  an under 9min break & an under 3min break.  and the C's have a few timeouts.

he would have been fine, AND dropping a 25pt game would have been huge for his confidence (he was well on his way, before benching).

as for the size advantage thing, Tommy pointed it out too, why not just let Paul waive a towel in the 4th? Could have had Bass/KG up front and let Jeff be the go to guy at the 3.  Against the Cats - it was worth the experiment.

this is Doc being unable to break old habits, & running P into the ground as result. 

Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2013, 01:57:25 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Green would be rolling out of bed, about an hour ago. And they don't play again till tomorrow night, so I don't see the problem with Doc, giving him the minutes. A younger player can easily recuperate in a 48 hour span.
I'm sure you don't see a problem. You're probably not a heart surgeon, either.
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Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2013, 01:58:38 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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this is Doc being unable to break old habits, & running P into the ground as result.
Both played less than thirty minutes.
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Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2013, 02:00:27 PM »

Online LooseCannon

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If it turns out that Green had signaled to Doc that he was tired and needed to come out of the game, does that negate most of the criticism in this thread?
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2013, 02:01:25 PM »

Online triboy16f

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Pierce should of passed it to terry instead of ab. No knock on ab but he is a 35 percent 3 shooter
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Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2013, 02:02:38 PM »

Online LarBrd33

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Green's our 4th best player behind KG, Pierce and Rondo.  With Rondo out he's our 3rd best.  But unfortunately Pierce plays the same position as him.  It hadn't really been a problem during our streak, but it's easy to look at the last close game and point out the fact Jeff only played 24 minutes as an issue.  He has been sensational lately.  Boston was gassed, though.  No big deal.

Jeff's a talented guy.  He could handle more of a role on offense.  His play is why you have to at least consider moving Pierce if you can get value for him.

Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2013, 02:03:59 PM »

Online Fafnir

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Green was having a good game, that doesn't mean Doc is going to trust leaving him on the floor over Pierce. Especially when he wants someone to handle the ball, if he leaves Green in that means its Terry/AB who have to do that.

Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2013, 02:18:57 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Green entered with 4:20 left in the 1st quarter.  He leaves with 5:23 left in the 2nd.  He re-enters the game with 6:09 left in the 3rd before leaving with 6:03 left in the 4th.  He comes back with 25.7 seconds left in the game.

Which of these options are superior to what Doc actually did?
-Leave Green in for the rest of the game and play him 18 consecutive minutes?
-Leave Green in the game and take him out only when he has obviously run out of energy?  (And if you believe this, can you demonstrate that he hadn't reached that point yet?)
-Take Green out earlier with the intention of putting him back in for several minutes at the end of the game?
-Take Green out at roughly the same time, but give him 2-3 minutes rest then put him back in?
And of course there is the question of whether Green is on strict minute restriction because of the heart surgery.

Absent any evidence that he is, in fact, on a minutes restriction, I am going to operate under the assumption he isn't.  He is well over a year removed from his surgery.

Even if he really can't play 30 minutes a game (which seems absurd to me), Doc should have taken him out a few minutes earlier and then brought him back for the last few in favor of Bass.  Heck, he could have taken him out when he did, and still brought him back at around the 2 minute mark.  It was just so obvious Bass was killing us, and Pierce needed someone else to help.

I could have sworn the whole idea coming into the season was to have KG/Green/Pierce as our end of game front-court lineup.  Green has been playing more than well enough of late to deserve to be on the floor in the last few minutes.  Total fail on Doc's behalf as far as managing rotations is concerned.

Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2013, 02:19:55 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Green was having a good game, that doesn't mean Doc is going to trust leaving him on the floor over Pierce. Especially when he wants someone to handle the ball, if he leaves Green in that means its Terry/AB who have to do that.

He should have been in the game in place of Bass.  Bass sucks.

Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2013, 02:22:45 PM »

Online Fafnir

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Green was having a good game, that doesn't mean Doc is going to trust leaving him on the floor over Pierce. Especially when he wants someone to handle the ball, if he leaves Green in that means its Terry/AB who have to do that.

He should have been in the game in place of Bass.  Bass sucks.
Bass is a better defensive option to guard other big men.

Assume Green is put in for Bass, then Green or Pierce has to defend Mullens at the 4 as KG has Biyambo (or Pierce/Green have to guard Biyambo which isn't ideal either for rebounding purposes alone)

Mullens scored easily on both Green/Pierce in the post earlier in the game.

Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2013, 02:27:44 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Green was having a good game, that doesn't mean Doc is going to trust leaving him on the floor over Pierce. Especially when he wants someone to handle the ball, if he leaves Green in that means its Terry/AB who have to do that.

He should have been in the game in place of Bass.  Bass sucks.
Bass is a better defensive option to guard other big men.

Then Green or Pierce has to defend Mullens at the 4 as KG has Biyambo (or Pierce/Green have to guard Biyambo which isn't ideal either for rebounding purposes alone)

Mullens scored easily on both Green/Pierce in the post earlier in the game.

Bass didn't do so hot either though.  At least Green would have been able to counter-act whatever he gave up on defense with an ability to contribute on offense.  Bass has been giving us practically nothing of late.

Mostly, I am just at the point where I wish Bass would go away.  He is truly the only player on the team I don't like.

Re: We would win if Doc didn't sub out Jeff Green for the last 6 mins
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2013, 02:32:26 PM »

Online Roy H.

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-Take Green out at roughly the same time, but give him 2-3 minutes rest then put him back in?

This one.


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