Author Topic: The RONDO bashing has got to stop  (Read 4209 times)

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Offline dark_lord

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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2013, 08:58:40 AM »
I agree. Rondo is still one of the top 3 point guards in the league whether people want to admit it or not.

id say he is top five without question, but top three could be debatable

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2013, 09:03:13 AM »
just think the Celtics are more potent team, better spacing with FIVE men on the court that can hit a shot.

Rondo's poor shooting  hurts when, Collins is on the floor, Bass is cold,  and the rest of the role players like Lee , Jet, Green .aren't getting enough touchs due to  Rondo lazy, drag tail offensive play......pounding the precious offensive secs away , all the while letting the other teams defense get set up and stagnating the offensive flow to the game.

Until Rondo improve on the above flawed play...he should be called out for it....as should Doc  for letting his mess continue.

I like his attitude ,  resolve, and passing.......but that's not enough with the current team.....he needs to learn to shoot other than lay ups and wide open mid range.   He needs to learn to make a shot with somebody on  him.    Rondo is epic fail at end of most games and at free throw line...I cringe when he is fouled.  Unacceptable for a NBA point guard.

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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2013, 09:11:13 AM »

  Yes, it was. Our best offense *this year* (and it's not even close) was early in the year when Rondo was getting 13 assists a game. We were top 10 in efficiency and top 5 in efg% right before December. Let me know when the post-Rondo offense gets to that level, or maybe just explain further how our current offense is superior to that.

Where can you find month-by-month efficiency splits?

  http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/offensive-efficiency

  At the top of the table there's a calender, just pick a different date and see what they numbers were. Pretty cool.
That's a cumulative rating though, I just exported the basketball reference csv data and calculated it on a month to month basis:

              ORTG       DRTG
November      105.1      103.8
December      101.1      104.8
January       101.9      99.9
February      108.3      98.5
----------
With Rondo    103.0      103.9 (all games prior to acl)
Without Rondo 106.6      97.00 (7 games since his injury)

Online Fafnir

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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2013, 09:17:19 AM »
just think the Celtics are more potent team, better spacing with FIVE men on the court that can hit a shot.
The problem the C's have is when they're playing against a good defense without Rondo we don't have a threat to penetrate and compromise the defense.

You're right having 4 or 5 shooters on the floor at all times really makes the spacing better. But when we don't have penetration we can get clamped down on like during the Heat game (or second half of Clippers/Denver games)

Offline BballTim

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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2013, 09:19:48 AM »

  Yes, it was. Our best offense *this year* (and it's not even close) was early in the year when Rondo was getting 13 assists a game. We were top 10 in efficiency and top 5 in efg% right before December. Let me know when the post-Rondo offense gets to that level, or maybe just explain further how our current offense is superior to that.

Where can you find month-by-month efficiency splits?

  http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/offensive-efficiency

  At the top of the table there's a calender, just pick a different date and see what they numbers were. Pretty cool.
That's a cumulative rating though, I just exported the basketball reference csv data and calculated it on a month to month basis:

              ORTG       DRTG
November      105.1      103.8
December      101.1      104.8
January       101.9      99.9
February      108.3      98.5
----------
With Rondo    103.0      103.9 (all games prior to acl)
Without Rondo 106.6      97.00 (7 games since his injury)

  Those numbers look like they're different than what I'm seeing. But when I look at our ORtg for the year it's 102.5, I don't see how we could be above that both with and without Rondo.

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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #50 on: February 11, 2013, 09:21:25 AM »
Depends on what ORTG formula you use, I'm using Dean Oliver's with a .4 free throw multiplier like basketball reference does. It allowed me to match up several data points to confirm I typed things in correctly.

Offline Moranis

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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #51 on: February 11, 2013, 09:22:11 AM »
just think the Celtics are more potent team, better spacing with FIVE men on the court that can hit a shot.
The problem the C's have is when they're playing against a good defense without Rondo we don't have a threat to penetrate and compromise the defense.

You're right having 4 or 5 shooters on the floor at all times really makes the spacing better. But when we don't have penetration we can get clamped down on like during the Heat game (or second half of Clippers/Denver games)
I'd rather just replace Rondo with a lesser talented PG overall, but one that is a better shooter, and some other asset that can help.  Right now Boston doesn't have a true PG on the roster, which causes the problem you are describing, but a true PG that is a better shooter would solve both of those issues.  A guy like Mike Conley, Jeff Teague, Goran Dragic, etc. would solve a lot of both of those problems.
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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #52 on: February 11, 2013, 09:23:01 AM »
I really think Paul Pierce has been underrated bell-weather guy for this team.

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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2013, 09:24:43 AM »
just think the Celtics are more potent team, better spacing with FIVE men on the court that can hit a shot.
The problem the C's have is when they're playing against a good defense without Rondo we don't have a threat to penetrate and compromise the defense.

You're right having 4 or 5 shooters on the floor at all times really makes the spacing better. But when we don't have penetration we can get clamped down on like during the Heat game (or second half of Clippers/Denver games)
I'd rather just replace Rondo with a lesser talented PG overall, but one that is a better shooter, and some other asset that can help.  Right now Boston doesn't have a true PG on the roster, which causes the problem you are describing, but a true PG that is a better shooter would solve both of those issues.  A guy like Mike Conley, Jeff Teague, Goran Dragic, etc. would solve a lot of both of those problems.
Maybe I have my doubts about that.

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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #54 on: February 11, 2013, 09:27:55 AM »
I really think Paul Pierce has been underrated bell-weather guy for this team.
Based on a rough average of his TRB% Pierce has put up approximately a 15.4 TRB% the past 7 games. Massively important for our win steak, KG is pulling down around a 17.

Offline dmopower

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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2013, 10:01:03 AM »
I'm in catagory 3 and 4

 I don't think we need to trade Rondo as he can adapt a little and be fine.

 But I would trade him for a tallented big. deffinetly one named D. Cousins.
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Offline kozlodoev

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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2013, 10:10:42 AM »
Yes, it was. Our best offense *this year* (and it's not even close) was early in the year when Rondo was getting 13 assists a game. We were top 10 in efficiency and top 5 in efg% right before December. Let me know when the post-Rondo offense gets to that level, or maybe just explain further how our current offense is superior to that.
It has already gotten to that level. And beyond it.

And yes, our offense is superior: people actually get to touch the ball multiple times, which - believe it or not - leads to better shots.

Does it not trouble you that when our alleged team leader, who's allegedly one of top floor generals in the NBA goes down, goes down, three key rotation players coincidentally start playing better?

And it's not "playing-over-their-head" better, it's simply playing at a level at which we know they could when we signed them. Now you can blame people for not stepping up early in the season -- but I don't think Rondo's leadership and ability to put other people in position to win (all reportedly key qualities of what people around here like to refer to as "true PGs") can come out of this without a dent.
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Offline ssspence

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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2013, 10:22:13 AM »
I don't bash Rondo, but I don't agree that assimilating his mood to Bird, Russell, KG is appropriate.

These are intense players, yes. They could press buttons, yes. But they also know how to lead. They know how to prop guys up when the time is right. They knew how to get the best out of teammates. Their peers look up to them, admire them.

Rondo's not there yet in the locker room or on the court. He's still immature in a variety of ways. He's still selfish in a variety of ways. He takes plays or even games off... mails 'em in. He pouts. He's passive-aggressive with teammates. Refs hate him because he's too bitter in arguing calls. Meanwhile, the other team is score in the other direction.

The organization -- including Pierce and KG -- has gone out of its way to try to make him a / the leader, and so far he's failed that test -- concerning considering he's in his 7th year.

Is he tough? Yes. Is he a leader? No. And this element -- considering how much he dictates the Cs success when he's on the floor -- is at least in part responsible for the more energized basketball you're seeing from the Cs since his injury.

I see no fault in calling this out. I, for one, won't homer my way into thinking that Rondo is a better contributor, leader or player than he actually is. 

Offline angryguy77

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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2013, 10:23:23 AM »
Got to love short memories. Rondo is so terrible that Phil Jackson and Spolstra put Kobe and Lebron on him for absolutely no reason.

People are going to learn a very hard reality about Rondo once the playoffs start.

Offline kozlodoev

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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2013, 10:27:21 AM »
People are going to learn a very hard reality about Rondo once the playoffs start.
Yup, and we would have won it in 2010 if we had Kendrick Perkins, right? :P
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