Author Topic: The RONDO bashing has got to stop  (Read 4488 times)

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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2013, 07:05:45 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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The labeling of reasonable or constructive criticisms and opinions as "Bashing" or "Hatred" has got to stop.

TP.

Really sad how many people worry more about Rondo than they do the Celtic franchise.

And revealing.

It may be that Rondo's game and its vagaries are a poor fit on this basketball team.

Doesn't mean the guy isn't talented. Means the guy's game - its strengths and its substantial warts, whether some of you want to admit it or not - doesn't fit with Pierce, KG, et al anymore.

As some of us have been saying for awhile.

Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2013, 07:11:38 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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This wasn't the first time the team's offense has gone into a funk, but that's really all it was.
No, it wasn't. The offense has changed considerably this year, growing into a Rondo-centric dribble fest which clearly wasn't getting out the best from the rest of the team.

It's a tad sad when the best thing your alleged floor leader has done for the team was to go out of commission, and people still believe he's the next great thing after sliced bread.

If he's gonna control the ball this much, Rondo he has to figure out how to make everyone better, which he's no longer doing. For some reason, he appears to think that the Celtics becoming "his team" is equivalent to having to dribble the ball to oblivion to give someone an open jump shot.
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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2013, 07:55:45 AM »

Offline CelticsFanNC

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The labeling of reasonable or constructive criticisms and opinions as "Bashing" or "Hatred" has got to stop.



Really sad how many people worry more about Rondo than they do the Celtic franchise.

And revealing.

It may be that Rondo's game and its vagaries are a poor fit on this basketball team.

doesn't fit with Pierce, KG, et all anymore.

As some of us have been saying for awhile.

   I'm a big Rondo supporter.  With that said you have to be blind not to see this team has looked better in the past couple of week since the Rondo injury then it has all season.

   Still there are at least twice as many people here who are guilty of worrying more about Paul Pierce then the Celtics as there are those who do so about Rondo.  Ever hear Paul Pierce has to retire a Celtic no matter what??

  I root for laundry and have for years.  I say trade anybody and everybody if it makes us better.

  Also how much longer can this team build itself around two ancient(by NBA standards) future HOFers?   Even as good as we look now we're still probably a first round and out or second round at best IMO.

  One more point.  If this team's offense looks miles better now(and it does) then it did with Rondo running it that blames lies on Doc's shoulders, not Rondo's.

Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2013, 08:03:41 AM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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One more point.  If this team's offense looks miles better now(and it does) then it did with Rondo running it that blames lies on Doc's shoulders, not Rondo's.

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I agree. If Doc doesn't average a double-double a game or get at least 15 assists
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tonight vs. the Bobcats, we need to trade him for someone like Tyreke.
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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2013, 08:11:04 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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It does seem strange the type of argumentative tactics Ive seen being used here when criticizing Rondo. We went (I think) 10-1 without KG, but we never thought we were better without KG, and bought that faith wholesale because of back credit accumulated. But we never brought up KG's lackluster games for parts of the 08 playoffs, never used the recent success as justification that KG was expendable or holding the team back, because he's Kevin Garnett, and we knew he was a critical leader who was the very bedrock of the team.

Rondo doesn't have KG's spotless reputation or his MVP pedigree, Rondo's a unique player whose game and reputation does have worts, and maybe that's why we're so quick to use this win streak as a justification. But the parrellels are there; Rondo is argumentably our most talented player, is indisputably a critical leader in the lockerroom, and is an important piece to the very bedrock of the current incarnation of the franchise. He's earned that.

And the reason why the argument is flawed is the same; the team has seen too much greatness, too much success with Rondo, and he's been so good that a 7 game win streak is a paltry sample size as proof positive that the team is 'better off without Rondo'. It should be dismissed out of hand, and no amount of wins between now and the All-star break can tip the scales to justify trading Rondo for anything other than his full value. As Chuck was once wont to say, 'Anything else, would be uncivilized'.

Amen to that brother.
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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2013, 08:16:57 AM »

Offline SCeltic34

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We're just going to have to deal with these silly "team is better without Rondo" threads until the playoffs arrive.  That's when the true test comes, forget regular season games. If we can beat Miami without Rondo, then I will gladly concede that we are better without him.  But I have a feeling that a lot of people will finally shut up when they realize what Rondo brings to our team when it matters most.

These threads remind me of last year when idiotic Miami fans and other NBA fans thought that the Heat were better without Bosh since they smoked Indiana and went up 2-0 against the C's without him.  This isn't the same situation and of course the makeup of our team is entirely different, but such a claim was just as foolish and unfounded as the statement that "we're better off without Rondo".  Why some Celtics fans would rather go into the playoffs without a battle-tested, elite-level point guard who rebounds, gets into the paint, steps up his defense, and improves the play of his teammates, I will never know.

Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2013, 08:20:24 AM »

Online Roy H.

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There are several classes of fans who are critical of Rondo:

1.  Those who don't like Rondo's attitude;
2.  Those who don't like Rondo's game / don't like the Celtics' offense when Rondo runs it;
3.  Those who like Rondo, but who want him to improve flaws in his game;
4.  Those who like Rondo, but who think he's expendable in the right trade.

I agree, those who "bash" him reflexively are undervaluing him and doing him a disservice.  However, I think there are a lot of folks with legitimate criticisms or ideas about how to make the team better in the present.

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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2013, 08:29:53 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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My biggest gripe is people wanting to trade him for a decent big to "win now"


LOL

Yeah way to ruin a franchise going forward for a .1% chance at a title.

He's improved his game every year....his style of play worked best in the last few years...why else would doc have been so adamant about it? They're learning this years team is different....he'll improve and make adjustments again.

Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2013, 08:40:00 AM »

Offline Moranis

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There are several classes of fans who are critical of Rondo:

1.  Those who don't like Rondo's attitude;
2.  Those who don't like Rondo's game / don't like the Celtics' offense when Rondo runs it;
3.  Those who like Rondo, but who want him to improve flaws in his game;
4.  Those who like Rondo, but who think he's expendable in the right trade.

I agree, those who "bash" him reflexively are undervaluing him and doing him a disservice.  However, I think there are a lot of folks with legitimate criticisms or ideas about how to make the team better in the present.
I think I fall into all 4 of those.
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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2013, 08:43:00 AM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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There are several classes of fans who are critical of Rondo:

1.  Those who don't like Rondo's attitude;
2.  Those who don't like Rondo's game / don't like the Celtics' offense when Rondo runs it;
3.  Those who like Rondo, but who want him to improve flaws in his game;
4.  Those who like Rondo, but who think he's expendable in the right trade.

I agree, those who "bash" him reflexively are undervaluing him and doing him a disservice.  However, I think there are a lot of folks with legitimate criticisms or ideas about how to make the team better in the present.

Put me in category #3.

Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2013, 08:44:09 AM »

Offline BballTim

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This wasn't the first time the team's offense has gone into a funk, but that's really all it was.
No, it wasn't. The offense has changed considerably this year, growing into a Rondo-centric dribble fest which clearly wasn't getting out the best from the rest of the team.

It's a tad sad when the best thing your alleged floor leader has done for the team was to go out of commission, and people still believe he's the next great thing after sliced bread.

If he's gonna control the ball this much, Rondo he has to figure out how to make everyone better, which he's no longer doing. For some reason, he appears to think that the Celtics becoming "his team" is equivalent to having to dribble the ball to oblivion to give someone an open jump shot.

  Yes, it was. Our best offense *this year* (and it's not even close) was early in the year when Rondo was getting 13 assists a game. We were top 10 in efficiency and top 5 in efg% right before December. Let me know when the post-Rondo offense gets to that level, or maybe just explain further how our current offense is superior to that.


Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2013, 08:50:34 AM »

Online Roy H.

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  Yes, it was. Our best offense *this year* (and it's not even close) was early in the year when Rondo was getting 13 assists a game. We were top 10 in efficiency and top 5 in efg% right before December. Let me know when the post-Rondo offense gets to that level, or maybe just explain further how our current offense is superior to that.

Where can you find month-by-month efficiency splits?

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Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2013, 08:51:47 AM »

Offline BballTim

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The labeling of reasonable or constructive criticisms and opinions as "Bashing" or "Hatred" has got to stop.

TP.

Really sad how many people worry more about Rondo than they do the Celtic franchise.

And revealing.

It may be that Rondo's game and its vagaries are a poor fit on this basketball team.

Doesn't mean the guy isn't talented. Means the guy's game - its strengths and its substantial warts, whether some of you want to admit it or not - doesn't fit with Pierce, KG, et al anymore.

As some of us have been saying for awhile.

  It's not that people worry more about Rondo than the franchise, it's that they realize the the team would be much better off in the playoffs with Rondo, just like they always are.

Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2013, 08:52:25 AM »

Offline twistedrico14

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I agree. Rondo is still one of the top 3 point guards in the league whether people want to admit it or not. 

Re: The RONDO bashing has got to stop
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2013, 08:53:36 AM »

Offline BballTim

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  Yes, it was. Our best offense *this year* (and it's not even close) was early in the year when Rondo was getting 13 assists a game. We were top 10 in efficiency and top 5 in efg% right before December. Let me know when the post-Rondo offense gets to that level, or maybe just explain further how our current offense is superior to that.

Where can you find month-by-month efficiency splits?

  http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/offensive-efficiency

  At the top of the table there's a calender, just pick a different date and see what they numbers were. Pretty cool.

 

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