Author Topic: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument  (Read 4172 times)

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Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2013, 12:42:34 AM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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The point was against those who coined 'playoff Rondo' period. I like Rondo I do not bash him. I criticize his play when I see fit, but I do not bash any player on the Cs.

The point is who cares about playoff Rondo sometimes Championships are won in the regular season when you get favorable seeding. We should worry about doing the right thing to win not waiting for playoffs to really play hard.

  Championships are never won during the regular season. The Lakers are the only top seed in the last 4 years to get to the finals.

what? lol

  Nice response. Glad to see the facts both surprise and amuse you.

I couldn't even understand it
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Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #61 on: February 10, 2013, 01:09:23 AM »

Offline esel1000

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The point was against those who coined 'playoff Rondo' period. I like Rondo I do not bash him. I criticize his play when I see fit, but I do not bash any player on the Cs.

The point is who cares about playoff Rondo sometimes Championships are won in the regular season when you get favorable seeding. We should worry about doing the right thing to win not waiting for playoffs to really play hard.

  Championships are never won during the regular season. The Lakers are the only top seed in the last 4 years to get to the finals.

what? lol

  Nice response. Glad to see the facts both surprise and amuse you.

I couldn't even understand it

He means that the regular season means nothing... The best players step up in the playoffs. There is one goal every season, and thats a championship. Rondo plays like he wants it. It's not his fault we haven't won a championship in recent years... its the roster, and strength of opposing rosters and players fighting for that same goal.

The Rondo bashing really is ridiculous... has a fanbase ever bashed their star player to this level in recent history if ever? Anyone who thinks this team is A. better without Rondo and/or B. that we have a realistic shot in the playoffs without this guy is fooling themselves...

In the playoffs, the leaders step up and make big plays. Rondo did that in game 7 vs the Sixers to get us to the ECF. Lebron did that in game 6 of the ECF. It's the way it is... People can bash Rondo all they want... I'll believe this roster can get past the first round without him when I see it

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #62 on: February 10, 2013, 01:09:34 AM »

Offline kgainez

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The point was against those who coined 'playoff Rondo' period. I like Rondo I do not bash him. I criticize his play when I see fit, but I do not bash any player on the Cs.

The point is who cares about playoff Rondo sometimes Championships are won in the regular season when you get favorable seeding. We should worry about doing the right thing to win not waiting for playoffs to really play hard.

  Championships are never won during the regular season. The Lakers are the only top seed in the last 4 years to get to the finals.

what? lol

  Nice response. Glad to see the facts both surprise and amuse you.

oh you know what? I misread that
I thought you said Lakers were the only top 4 seed to get to finals
and for that, i was thoroughly confused.

apologies.

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #63 on: February 10, 2013, 01:13:34 AM »

Offline kgainez

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The point was against those who coined 'playoff Rondo' period. I like Rondo I do not bash him. I criticize his play when I see fit, but I do not bash any player on the Cs.

The point is who cares about playoff Rondo sometimes Championships are won in the regular season when you get favorable seeding. We should worry about doing the right thing to win not waiting for playoffs to really play hard.

  Championships are never won during the regular season. The Lakers are the only top seed in the last 4 years to get to the finals.

what? lol

  Nice response. Glad to see the facts both surprise and amuse you.

I couldn't even understand it

He means that the regular season means nothing... The best players step up in the playoffs. There is one goal every season, and thats a championship. Rondo plays like he wants it. It's not his fault we haven't won a championship in recent years... its the roster, and strength of opposing rosters and players fighting for that same goal.

The Rondo bashing really is ridiculous... has a fanbase ever bashed their star player to this level in recent history if ever? Anyone who thinks this team is A. better without Rondo and/or B. that we have a realistic shot in the playoffs without this guy is fooling themselves...

In the playoffs, the leaders step up and make big plays. Rondo did that in game 7 vs the Sixers to get us to the ECF. Lebron did that in game 6 of the ECF. It's the way it is... People can bash Rondo all they want... I'll believe this roster can get past the first round without him when I see it

i hate that it's rondo bashing because we'd like rondo to show up for all games.
i hate that it's rondo bashing that people are stating that, besides the moral victories, we've never won with Rondo being a superhuman player.

i don't like to think of myself of bashing the guy, but as being realistic about him. and possibly, just maybe, thinking he's a tinch overrated (as we tend to overrate our own players -- see perk).

i think team ball wins. a spaced floor wins. great defense wins.

not one dominate player. one who happens to cheat a lot on defense. doesn't add a lot of floor spacing (in the system we had). i think we were ok with Ray...but this is a whole different ball game. I don't think the past helps us dictating the future here...it's ALL different.

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #64 on: February 10, 2013, 01:24:12 AM »

Offline esel1000

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The point was against those who coined 'playoff Rondo' period. I like Rondo I do not bash him. I criticize his play when I see fit, but I do not bash any player on the Cs.

The point is who cares about playoff Rondo sometimes Championships are won in the regular season when you get favorable seeding. We should worry about doing the right thing to win not waiting for playoffs to really play hard.

  Championships are never won during the regular season. The Lakers are the only top seed in the last 4 years to get to the finals.

what? lol

  Nice response. Glad to see the facts both surprise and amuse you.

I couldn't even understand it

He means that the regular season means nothing... The best players step up in the playoffs. There is one goal every season, and thats a championship. Rondo plays like he wants it. It's not his fault we haven't won a championship in recent years... its the roster, and strength of opposing rosters and players fighting for that same goal.

The Rondo bashing really is ridiculous... has a fanbase ever bashed their star player to this level in recent history if ever? Anyone who thinks this team is A. better without Rondo and/or B. that we have a realistic shot in the playoffs without this guy is fooling themselves...

In the playoffs, the leaders step up and make big plays. Rondo did that in game 7 vs the Sixers to get us to the ECF. Lebron did that in game 6 of the ECF. It's the way it is... People can bash Rondo all they want... I'll believe this roster can get past the first round without him when I see it

i hate that it's rondo bashing because we'd like rondo to show up for all games.
i hate that it's rondo bashing that people are stating that, besides the moral victories, we've never won with Rondo being a superhuman player.

i don't like to think of myself of bashing the guy, but as being realistic about him. and possibly, just maybe, thinking he's a tinch overrated (as we tend to overrate our own players -- see perk).

i think team ball wins. a spaced floor wins. great defense wins.

not one dominate player. one who happens to cheat a lot on defense. doesn't add a lot of floor spacing (in the system we had). i think we were ok with Ray...but this is a whole different ball game. I don't think the past helps us dictating the future here...it's ALL different.

What's your definition of Rondo showing up to games? He plays harder during certain games? Fine, point taken. But he plays his hardest in the playoffs and in the end thats all that really matters.

It's also not his fault that we haven't won with him as the leader... thats the fault of a roster inadequate to the ones we played in the playoffs. We wouldn't have gotten as far as we did last year without Rondo and thats a fact if you watched the games.

You may be realistic, but most of the Rondo bashers on here are not realistic about the guy. He's not Lebron James but hes a top 15 player in this league and this team, honestly, is not better without him. At least not in the playoffs. Like I said before, i'll believe this current team can get out of the first round when I see it

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #65 on: February 10, 2013, 01:37:00 AM »

Offline BballTim

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The point was against those who coined 'playoff Rondo' period. I like Rondo I do not bash him. I criticize his play when I see fit, but I do not bash any player on the Cs.

The point is who cares about playoff Rondo sometimes Championships are won in the regular season when you get favorable seeding. We should worry about doing the right thing to win not waiting for playoffs to really play hard.

  Championships are never won during the regular season. The Lakers are the only top seed in the last 4 years to get to the finals.

what? lol

  Nice response. Glad to see the facts both surprise and amuse you.

I couldn't even understand it

He means that the regular season means nothing... The best players step up in the playoffs. There is one goal every season, and thats a championship. Rondo plays like he wants it. It's not his fault we haven't won a championship in recent years... its the roster, and strength of opposing rosters and players fighting for that same goal.

The Rondo bashing really is ridiculous... has a fanbase ever bashed their star player to this level in recent history if ever? Anyone who thinks this team is A. better without Rondo and/or B. that we have a realistic shot in the playoffs without this guy is fooling themselves...

In the playoffs, the leaders step up and make big plays. Rondo did that in game 7 vs the Sixers to get us to the ECF. Lebron did that in game 6 of the ECF. It's the way it is... People can bash Rondo all they want... I'll believe this roster can get past the first round without him when I see it

i hate that it's rondo bashing because we'd like rondo to show up for all games.
i hate that it's rondo bashing that people are stating that, besides the moral victories, we've never won with Rondo being a superhuman player.

i don't like to think of myself of bashing the guy, but as being realistic about him. and possibly, just maybe, thinking he's a tinch overrated (as we tend to overrate our own players -- see perk).

i think team ball wins. a spaced floor wins. great defense wins.

  I don't think that the point is that we haven't won a title with Rondo, the point is we've come close enough to winning a title to demonstrate that it's reasonable to say that we *could* win a title with him in the future. We haven't shown that a team of (with the possible exception of Bradley) fairly ordinary guards and a less than stellar pf can come close to winning the title, although we see fairly similar (talent wise) teams fall to the Miamis and the LAs and the Thunder and the Spurs and the (with Rondo) Celts every year.

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #66 on: February 10, 2013, 06:03:00 AM »

Offline Greenbean

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The whole anaylsis of the Rondo injury impact on this blog and nationally for that matter has been way off base.

This years team is different from teams in years past. For some reason, running the offense through Rondo exclusively has not been efficient this year as
It has in the past. However, Rondo has proven he can make it work. For whatever reason, this year it was taking time to figure out integrating the new oarts in the Rondo offense.

Now that the offense is simplified, the new pieces are plaging better. May be if Doc had made a similar philosophy shift with Rondo, the results would be similar.

Now there is the issue of Rondos inconsistent defense. I have come to grips with it over the years and have also realized that one man cannot run the entire offense andnplay defense for 40 minutes in the regular season. Which is why I think Rondo can really sell out in the playoffs. There have only been a handful of nba players ever who could dominate both sides of the ball all game.

The guy has some faults but the roster is less talented without him. With him this year the team was underachieving and now they are playing upnto their capabilities. This time away from the team is probably an eye opener for him and for Doc on howthis team best performs.

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #67 on: February 10, 2013, 07:47:33 AM »

Offline mctyson

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I dont understand when the Celtics began to bask in moral victories someone said he counts the 44 game Miami game a win for us. Well I guess I could count the Laker game 7 in 2010 a win for us so we have #18 already. Moral victories are for losers not the Celtics.

No one can say how this team will play in the playoffs. The so-called experts said we wouldnt even make the playoffs when Rondo went down. So much for that.

Anyway, I deal with facts not with speculation. Playoff Rondo is yet to win us a CHIP. Until then I will continue to look at the evidence on the court.

By the way, how is the thread bashing Rondo? I just tried to make a point that this playoff Rondo has yet to win a championship.

So how can you win a title without playoff Rondo if even him stepping up in the playoffs hasn't gotten it done? Do you really think that Barbosa, Terry, Lee, or Bradley could of done what he did last year? It seems like we would be home sooner, not go farther.

See, this gets to the heart of this entire argument.  It's called a False Dichotomy.

We have people who say the Celtics didn't get it done when "X" occurred, so how is it possible with "Y" ?  The fact is, we don't know what the outcome will be with Y.

That's why it is a false dichotomy or a false choice.  You simply cannot compare the two situations.  As many people have said, the Celtics are not a better team without Rondo, but they also may not be a worse team without Rondo.  They are a different team without Rondo.

The success of this different team is yet to be determined.  So far, they are playing well, which is great to see.  Whether than turns into a first-round playoff exit or Banner 18 is yet to be determined.  Why do we need to jump to conclusions about an unknown outcome?  Can't we just enjoy watching the show?

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #68 on: February 10, 2013, 08:18:58 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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He played well enough to be voted all star starter


Sorry bub, he just takes it to another level come playoffs

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #69 on: February 10, 2013, 08:20:27 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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The team we have now I have faith in.  More faith then any team Rondo's led the past two years.


 ::)

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #70 on: February 10, 2013, 08:49:55 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Yeah, you're right... I mean not like we would have lost to the Sixers had Rondo not stepped up in game 7...

Oh and try to do it himself? What does that even mean? He was the leader of the team throughout the playoffs and he did an excellent job. Just because the refs cheated us out of his 44 pt game 2 and we lost the series in 7 games does not mean its his fault... he kept us in that series. Hell we were in the ECF because of his BIG PLAYS.

I don't even know what to say...

You are seriously undermining KG and his Vintage 20/10 playoff performance.  Rondo and KG combined stepped up big time to will us to game 7 of the ECF.  You're absolutely right that Rondo's play was critical to that run, but Garnett's was just as critical, if not more when you factor in the impact he had on defense.

Every time Rondo had an average game KG had a huge one, and vice versa.

BUT that still doesn't change the fact that what the OP said is generally correct.  Boston are playing Rondo the big bucks to give his all every night, not just in the big games that people watch.  As I've said before, Rondo's playoff play means precisely nothing if we don't actually make the playoffs.

Rondo makes about $10 million a year, which is approximately 10x what the CEO of large enterprise makes and about 100x what a good doctor or a senior IT project manager makes. 

That's a LOT of money, and if you're getting that much you BETTER put in 110% effort every night.  I know everybody has bad games, but if you look at the truly elite players in history (Kobe, Jordan, Bird, etc) those guys never played a single game with any less than 100% effort.  KG and PP, even at their current ages, still play with that mentality - even if they play bad, you can never question how hard they tried.

I'm see the same right now in Lee, Bradley, Collins, Barbosa and Sullinger...and I saw that same attitude last season from Marquis and Pietrus.  Those guys always played HARD. 

I respect a player who lacks talent but tries his best, more than I respect a player who has supreme talent but takes games off.


Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #71 on: February 10, 2013, 08:55:48 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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So you want people to stop arguing a point you can't beat, Eh?   What are you Karl Rove?

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #72 on: February 10, 2013, 09:31:01 AM »

Offline kgainez

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screw 'playoff Rondo' -- playoff Rondo hasn't won squat
can we PLEASE talk about 'championship Rondo' -- the role player who avg 10/6/4 or something like that...we still have a KG and a PP and to think they won't be vintage in the playoffs is dangerous. 2008 was ball movement and spacing.
this doesn't have to be different but would be if we had a ball dominant Rondo.

I appreciate his greatness and some games we would need it. but i don't think we have to be as dependent on him as people are making us out to be.

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #73 on: February 10, 2013, 09:39:22 AM »

Offline BballTim

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screw 'playoff Rondo' -- playoff Rondo hasn't won squat
can we PLEASE talk about 'championship Rondo' -- the role player who avg 10/6/4 or something like that...we still have a KG and a PP and to think they won't be vintage in the playoffs is dangerous.

   The league is brimming with players that have won much less than "squat" in the playoffs. Take what you can get.

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #74 on: February 10, 2013, 09:43:50 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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exposure of Rondos, and Doc's stupidly of not seeing how Rondo was killing all the new guys efforts to be part of tHe team......Rondo playing his Perk era ball,   doesn't fit with this newer group , Allen saw the issue with Rondo.

Frankly  we have seen its huge problem, one that  almost caused the team to tank.   Maybe Rondo works though it ?   

He is terrible at having the ball in his hands. the last minutes of a game.   Because he is so Unconfident shooting

Not being able to drive pull upand shoot consistent , like CP3 kills Rondos value,   he isn't trusted to shoot free throws........

at crunch time Rondo's skill set sucks out loud......

He lacks basic shooting skills and confidence  a point guard needs in the NBA.

I 'd rather have Delonte West handle the ball at the end of a game.

Teams KnOW Rondo is looking to pass .......that is killing us .

 

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