Author Topic: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument  (Read 4315 times)

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Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2013, 09:05:37 PM »

Offline blink

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Rondo's points/assists/rebounds/steals averages over the last 4 playoffs.  66 games - which is 11x the current celtic regular season win streak.

2009:  16.9ppg/9.8apg/9.7rpg/2.5spg
2010:  15.6ppg/9.3apg/5.6rpg/1.9spg
2011:  14.0ppg/9.6apg/5.4rpg/1.1spg
2012:  17.3ppg/11.9apg/6.7rpg/2.4spg

I wish we could all at least tip the hat to Rondo's playoff efforts because it has been pretty amazing.  If you don't like those results, and prefer to hang your hat on a Rondo-less 6-game regular season win streak go ahead. 

I am still cheering for them to win the title this year too.  I support ALL of our players, not just a few.  I just don't know how anyone in their right mind thinks that losing that kind of contribution won't have a big impact on our playoff chances.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 09:13:17 PM by blink »

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2013, 09:15:20 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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The theory that we are better without player X because we've yet to win a title with him as an elite player is just amazing. lol


Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2013, 09:19:02 PM »

Offline blink

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This was a fun view...

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/allstar/2013/02/08/rajon-rondo-career-top-10-plays.nba/index.html

take a close note at #1 (the last one in the video).

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2013, 09:53:50 PM »

Offline cltc5

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The theory that we are better without player X because we've yet to win a title with him as an elite player is just amazing. lol

the thought that one player is better than 5 is even more amazing ::)

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2013, 09:56:51 PM »

Offline blink

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The theory that we are better without player X because we've yet to win a title with him as an elite player is just amazing. lol

the thought that one player is better than 5 is even more amazing ::)

Who in this whole thread has said anything remotely like what you are implying?

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2013, 09:57:16 PM »

Offline Swoopz

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The theory that we are better without player X because we've yet to win a title with him as an elite player is just amazing. lol

the thought that one player is better than 5 is even more amazing ::)

Good thing no one ever said that. What's not amazing is the thought that one player, who has often stepped up in big moments, can improve a team's chances of winning a championship

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2013, 09:57:46 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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the Celtics pay Rondo to show up and play his best every game apparently even his most ardent supporters agree that he does not give his best every game. This is not a good thing.

To those that argue that we will miss Rondo come the playoffs, remember that in his most memorable playoff games where he went all the way - we still lost. Maybe we would have won that game if he did not try to do it himself.

Finally, who cares about playoff Rondo? We should only care about Chips. How many chips has playoff Rondo won us?

Have you even watched the Celtics in the playoffs in 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012?  Because if you had watched, I don't believe you would be spouting this non-sense.

One player doesn't win you a championship.  Do you understand that?  Rondo's efforts in the playoffs have been amazing.  I can't believe that we go on a 6 game win streak after he goes down to injury and then 1/2 the people on this board get selective amnesia about one players contributions. 

It is really bordering on idiocy at this point.

Playoff Rondo is not a winning formula. The winning formula is team ball everyone playing better sharign the ball. Even Doc talked about this in 2008 or dont you remember YOU GOT TO DO IT TOGETHERRRRRRRRR!!! Somewhere along the line even Doc lost the focus on team play.

Rondo averages like 13-15 assists throughout the playoffs... How is he not playing team ball?

If the current trend of team asists higher without Rondo than with Rondo holds up then his asists totals may actually be hindering overall ball movement and team ball.

This is a highly un-scientific analysis.  Your original idea behind this thread is based in some kind of bias that you have against Rondo as a player, not his results and play during the playoffs. 

I don't get why people like to go out of their way to make stuff up and bash Rondo?  Do we do that to KG, PP?  I mean Rondo's effort and heart and results in the playoffs in the last couple of years are def. at the same level as KG's and PP's.  Let just start bashing all of our great players then.  And we should really single out those that dislocate an elbow and come back to play and lead us to a win.

Yeah honestly if you want to blame a guy for stalling the offense blame PP... his iso plays have done just that on plenty of occasions. Rondo is an excellent team player and he excels in the playoffs... the numbers and the plays prove it.

The fact is this team would not have gone as far as it has in the playoffs the last couple of years without Rondo. Not winning a championship each of those years is not Rondo's fault... its the rosters...

Pierce has those plays where he looks like rondo. Pounding the ball and what not. However rondo does it on a much more consistent basis.

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2013, 09:59:46 PM »

Offline cltc5

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Truth is we already won a chip in 2008 without playoff Rondo.

We can do it again. Rondo has not developed the type of game to take a team all the way. To take a team all the way you must make your teammates better not worse.

totally different rondo then.  He was a facilitator and the offense ran through the big 3.  Rondo was just the cog.  Now he's been expected to be the whole engine and that's either his fault or doc's.

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2013, 10:02:42 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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this is  not a Rondo bashing thread. The thread is a rebuttal to those who are discounting the play of the team by looking forward to the playoffs. There is no evidence that our current play cannot be sustained through the playoff, and if it is not and we dont win, it is not as if we have won with Rondo the last four years.

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2013, 10:04:46 PM »

Offline blink

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this is  not a Rondo bashing thread. The thread is a rebuttal to those who are discounting the play of the team by looking forward to the playoffs. There is no evidence that our current play cannot be sustained through the playoff, and if it is not and we dont win, it is not as if we have won with Rondo the last four years.

This is from the 1st post:
"Finally, who cares about playoff Rondo? We should only care about Chips. How many chips has playoff Rondo won us?"

That isn't bashing / diminishing Rondo's contributions???  I disagree 100%.

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2013, 10:06:56 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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The point was against those who coined 'playoff Rondo' period. I like Rondo I do not bash him. I criticize his play when I see fit, but I do not bash any player on the Cs.

The point is who cares about playoff Rondo sometimes Championships are won in the regular season when you get favorable seeding. We should worry about doing the right thing to win not waiting for playoffs to really play hard.

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2013, 10:09:16 PM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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this is  not a Rondo bashing thread. The thread is a rebuttal to those who are discounting the play of the team by looking forward to the playoffs. There is no evidence that our current play cannot be sustained through the playoff, and if it is not and we dont win, it is not as if we have won with Rondo the last four years.

The team's ceiling is lower without Rondo but it's not as low as people think but Rondo is nowhere near as bad as you say he is (playoff or not).

Also, what blink said.

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2013, 10:11:13 PM »

Offline sdceltsfan

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I think Rondo's ball dominance hampers many players on this team from getting in to their rhythm from game to game.

Players who were obviously affected:

Jason Terry
Courtney Lee
Jeff Green

To a degree:

Paul Pierce
Brandon Bass

KG was one of the only consistent players whether Rondo was on or off the court with him. I think Rondo has always trusted KG's game, so he goes to him when KG calls for it. When Pierce is flat or cold, Rondo noticeably avoids him at times.......this was even more apparent with Terry, Lee, Green.

I would also argue that much of Terry/Lee/Green's games comes from transition shooting on fast breaks. Now, this is also a Doc Rivers thing, because I feel like he hates doing the D'Antoni type offense, where you just take the open shots/3's if you get them in transition, before the defense is set. Rondo very much falls in line with Doc for the most part.
       However, when he puts Doc out of his ear, he is a very ball-dominant, penetrating, drive and dish type of PG. Shooters like Jason Terry, who basically have to stand in one spot (not his game), once Rondo drives (because of his erratic style of passing, which also makes him an amazing player) just to hope to catch his pass if he kicks it back out. He goes to fast and hard to the hole for guys to be shifting around a whole lot. When Rondo makes his moves, the rest of the offense tends to freeze up, IMO. This is what makes Rondo one of the most talented but also frustrating players to watch.

The Celtics are definitely playing more team ball, and it's working for now. No doubt though, that come playoff time, there will be games where KG/PP are gassed, and we don't exactly have another one player who can put the team on his shoulders. This is where we will miss Rondo.

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2013, 10:12:29 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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this is  not a Rondo bashing thread. The thread is a rebuttal to those who are discounting the play of the team by looking forward to the playoffs. There is no evidence that our current play cannot be sustained through the playoff, and if it is not and we dont win, it is not as if we have won with Rondo the last four years.

The team's ceiling is lower without Rondo but it's not as low as people think but Rondo is nowhere near as bad as you say he is (playoff or not).

Also, what blink said.

bad? who said Rondo is bad..the thread is about arguments made by posters unless you can show me where Rondo himself coined himself regular season Rondo and playoff Rondo this thread is not about Rondo but about those who claim there are two Rondos.

Re: Enough of the playoff Rondo argument
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2013, 10:14:38 PM »

Offline BballTim

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the Celtics pay Rondo to show up and play his best every game apparently even his most ardent supporters agree that he does not give his best every game. This is not a good thing.

To those that argue that we will miss Rondo come the playoffs, remember that in his most memorable playoff games where he went all the way - we still lost. Maybe we would have won that game if he did not try to do it himself.

Finally, who cares about playoff Rondo? We should only care about Chips. How many chips has playoff Rondo won us?

Have you even watched the Celtics in the playoffs in 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012?  Because if you had watched, I don't believe you would be spouting this non-sense.

One player doesn't win you a championship.  Do you understand that?  Rondo's efforts in the playoffs have been amazing.  I can't believe that we go on a 6 game win streak after he goes down to injury and then 1/2 the people on this board get selective amnesia about one players contributions. 

It is really bordering on idiocy at this point.

Playoff Rondo is not a winning formula. The winning formula is team ball everyone playing better sharign the ball. Even Doc talked about this in 2008 or dont you remember YOU GOT TO DO IT TOGETHERRRRRRRRR!!! Somewhere along the line even Doc lost the focus on team play.

Rondo averages like 13-15 assists throughout the playoffs... How is he not playing team ball?

If the current trend of team asists higher without Rondo than with Rondo holds up then his asists totals may actually be hindering overall ball movement and team ball.

This is a highly un-scientific analysis.  Your original idea behind this thread is based in some kind of bias that you have against Rondo as a player, not his results and play during the playoffs. 

I don't get why people like to go out of their way to make stuff up and bash Rondo?  Do we do that to KG, PP?  I mean Rondo's effort and heart and results in the playoffs in the last couple of years are def. at the same level as KG's and PP's.  Let just start bashing all of our great players then.  And we should really single out those that dislocate an elbow and come back to play and lead us to a win.

Yeah honestly if you want to blame a guy for stalling the offense blame PP... his iso plays have done just that on plenty of occasions. Rondo is an excellent team player and he excels in the playoffs... the numbers and the plays prove it.

The fact is this team would not have gone as far as it has in the playoffs the last couple of years without Rondo. Not winning a championship each of those years is not Rondo's fault... its the rosters...

Pierce has those plays where he looks like rondo. Pounding the ball and what not. However rondo does it on a much more consistent basis.

  While I'd expect Doc to implement an offense that's somewhat more ball-movement oriented than what we saw with Rondo playing this year it's worth pointing out that the team's had great success with Rondo dominating the ball and racking up the assists.

 

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