Author Topic: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime  (Read 4254 times)

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Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2013, 10:05:42 AM »

Offline BballTim

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What I do want to see though is a change in how our ball moves, and how much Rondo dominates the ball in our half-court sets, and how quickly he starts our offense. And it's not solely on him, Pierce has a hand in that aspect too.

  I'd say we certainly look different without Rondo (or PP) controlling the ball during half-court sets but I think that, for all the ball movement, we're ending up with similar shots at the same time in the shot clock that we typically see.

I think you're underestimating rhythm and the effect ball movement has on defenses. I'll tell you this much though, we'd be getting even better shots if the ball was moving this way with Rondo on the floor because despite everything, he's still our best passer and has the batter vision.

And we've seen it with Rondo, but just through stretches.

  I agree that we'd get better shots if we ran this with Rondo. But no matter the effect ball movement may have on defenses we're still getting similar shots at similar times in the shot clock from the half court game.


Quote
And I'm one of the few out there that actually like Rondo off the ball, so would like to see more of that. I think his style of play could be more dangerous from those positions, particularly since he's a bit averse at taking players off the dribble for some reason despite it being an option for him in pretty much every single play.

  Not sure exactly what you're referring to. Also, someone posted in another thread that Rondo drives into the lane more than almost anyone else in the league.

I don't think that really means much, particularly with the amount of control he has on possessions, and how he compares to other players and their ability to get shots off on other points in the court.

  I'm not sure how Rondo's getting shots on other points in the court affects whether he has an aversion to taking people off the dribble.
Well, first the aversion comment had nothing to do with my comments about other people's ability to take shots at other points in the of the court. If a player is limited offensively, it should mean that the spots from where he takes his shots should be concentrated in fewer areas than that of a person who's isn't limited offensively.


That said, let's not call it aversion because that's really not it, but not a priority for him, when it should be and something that he should be able to accomplish in just about every play?

Not really an example of this, but I still recall that game against Detroit when they put Hamilton to guard Rondo, and he was bothering Rondo, or Rondo wasn't taking advantage of the situation. Then Doc got on him to use his quickness against him, to drive on him, and on the next play Rondo drove by him and made one of the most awesome dunks of his career.

I sustain that it's his biggest offensive weapon by a wide margin, and feel that he doesn't use it enough in that context.

  It's true that Rondo scores more effectively when he gets to the rim but wouldn't that also be true for all of the other players that were on the list?

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2013, 10:07:29 AM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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What I do want to see though is a change in how our ball moves, and how much Rondo dominates the ball in our half-court sets, and how quickly he starts our offense. And it's not solely on him, Pierce has a hand in that aspect too.

  I'd say we certainly look different without Rondo (or PP) controlling the ball during half-court sets but I think that, for all the ball movement, we're ending up with similar shots at the same time in the shot clock that we typically see.

I think you're underestimating rhythm and the effect ball movement has on defenses. I'll tell you this much though, we'd be getting even better shots if the ball was moving this way with Rondo on the floor because despite everything, he's still our best passer and has the batter vision.

And we've seen it with Rondo, but just through stretches.

  I agree that we'd get better shots if we ran this with Rondo. But no matter the effect ball movement may have on defenses we're still getting similar shots at similar times in the shot clock from the half court game.


Quote
And I'm one of the few out there that actually like Rondo off the ball, so would like to see more of that. I think his style of play could be more dangerous from those positions, particularly since he's a bit averse at taking players off the dribble for some reason despite it being an option for him in pretty much every single play.

  Not sure exactly what you're referring to. Also, someone posted in another thread that Rondo drives into the lane more than almost anyone else in the league.

I don't think that really means much, particularly with the amount of control he has on possessions, and how he compares to other players and their ability to get shots off on other points in the court.

  I'm not sure how Rondo's getting shots on other points in the court affects whether he has an aversion to taking people off the dribble.
Well, first the aversion comment had nothing to do with my comments about other people's ability to take shots at other points in the of the court. If a player is limited offensively, it should mean that the spots from where he takes his shots should be concentrated in fewer areas than that of a person who's isn't limited offensively.


That said, let's not call it aversion because that's really not it, but not a priority for him, when it should be and something that he should be able to accomplish in just about every play?

Not really an example of this, but I still recall that game against Detroit when they put Hamilton to guard Rondo, and he was bothering Rondo, or Rondo wasn't taking advantage of the situation. Then Doc got on him to use his quickness against him, to drive on him, and on the next play Rondo drove by him and made one of the most awesome dunks of his career.

I sustain that it's his biggest offensive weapon by a wide margin, and feel that he doesn't use it enough in that context.

  It's true that Rondo scores more effectively when he gets to the rim but wouldn't that also be true for all of the other players that were on the list?

Rondo does take people off the dribble when he's like facing sideways and bouncing up and down to the left and right, especially on a delayed fast break. Very unpredictable, do anyone who actually plays basketball.
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Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2013, 10:29:32 AM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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Quote
What I do want to see though is a change in how our ball moves, and how much Rondo dominates the ball in our half-court sets, and how quickly he starts our offense. And it's not solely on him, Pierce has a hand in that aspect too.

  I'd say we certainly look different without Rondo (or PP) controlling the ball during half-court sets but I think that, for all the ball movement, we're ending up with similar shots at the same time in the shot clock that we typically see.

I think you're underestimating rhythm and the effect ball movement has on defenses. I'll tell you this much though, we'd be getting even better shots if the ball was moving this way with Rondo on the floor because despite everything, he's still our best passer and has the batter vision.

And we've seen it with Rondo, but just through stretches.

  I agree that we'd get better shots if we ran this with Rondo. But no matter the effect ball movement may have on defenses we're still getting similar shots at similar times in the shot clock from the half court game.


Quote
And I'm one of the few out there that actually like Rondo off the ball, so would like to see more of that. I think his style of play could be more dangerous from those positions, particularly since he's a bit averse at taking players off the dribble for some reason despite it being an option for him in pretty much every single play.

  Not sure exactly what you're referring to. Also, someone posted in another thread that Rondo drives into the lane more than almost anyone else in the league.

I don't think that really means much, particularly with the amount of control he has on possessions, and how he compares to other players and their ability to get shots off on other points in the court.

  I'm not sure how Rondo's getting shots on other points in the court affects whether he has an aversion to taking people off the dribble.
Well, first the aversion comment had nothing to do with my comments about other people's ability to take shots at other points in the of the court. If a player is limited offensively, it should mean that the spots from where he takes his shots should be concentrated in fewer areas than that of a person who's isn't limited offensively.


That said, let's not call it aversion because that's really not it, but not a priority for him, when it should be and something that he should be able to accomplish in just about every play?

Not really an example of this, but I still recall that game against Detroit when they put Hamilton to guard Rondo, and he was bothering Rondo, or Rondo wasn't taking advantage of the situation. Then Doc got on him to use his quickness against him, to drive on him, and on the next play Rondo drove by him and made one of the most awesome dunks of his career.

I sustain that it's his biggest offensive weapon by a wide margin, and feel that he doesn't use it enough in that context.

  It's true that Rondo scores more effectively when he gets to the rim but wouldn't that also be true for all of the other players that were on the list?

Holds no relation what I'm saying. It's not about where one is more effective, but the various ways a player can be effective.

For example, if Harden has an opening to shoot a 3, he would probably take it because he can make that shot with good effectiveness. Rondo on the other hand if he has some space, he'll probably take that opportunity to go to the basket because 3-pointers don't present a good opportunity for him to score.

The point is, that given this situation, it should be expected that Rondo being this type of player would be a league leader in penetrations per game, particularly considering the amount of time he has the ball in his hands, and considering the amount of playing time he gets in a game. And I propose that him being this high on the list is all fine and dandy, but considering the type of player Rondo is, it's still not good enough.

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2013, 10:52:49 AM »

Offline BballTim

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What I do want to see though is a change in how our ball moves, and how much Rondo dominates the ball in our half-court sets, and how quickly he starts our offense. And it's not solely on him, Pierce has a hand in that aspect too.

  I'd say we certainly look different without Rondo (or PP) controlling the ball during half-court sets but I think that, for all the ball movement, we're ending up with similar shots at the same time in the shot clock that we typically see.

I think you're underestimating rhythm and the effect ball movement has on defenses. I'll tell you this much though, we'd be getting even better shots if the ball was moving this way with Rondo on the floor because despite everything, he's still our best passer and has the batter vision.

And we've seen it with Rondo, but just through stretches.

  I agree that we'd get better shots if we ran this with Rondo. But no matter the effect ball movement may have on defenses we're still getting similar shots at similar times in the shot clock from the half court game.


Quote
And I'm one of the few out there that actually like Rondo off the ball, so would like to see more of that. I think his style of play could be more dangerous from those positions, particularly since he's a bit averse at taking players off the dribble for some reason despite it being an option for him in pretty much every single play.

  Not sure exactly what you're referring to. Also, someone posted in another thread that Rondo drives into the lane more than almost anyone else in the league.

I don't think that really means much, particularly with the amount of control he has on possessions, and how he compares to other players and their ability to get shots off on other points in the court.

  I'm not sure how Rondo's getting shots on other points in the court affects whether he has an aversion to taking people off the dribble.
Well, first the aversion comment had nothing to do with my comments about other people's ability to take shots at other points in the of the court. If a player is limited offensively, it should mean that the spots from where he takes his shots should be concentrated in fewer areas than that of a person who's isn't limited offensively.


That said, let's not call it aversion because that's really not it, but not a priority for him, when it should be and something that he should be able to accomplish in just about every play?

Not really an example of this, but I still recall that game against Detroit when they put Hamilton to guard Rondo, and he was bothering Rondo, or Rondo wasn't taking advantage of the situation. Then Doc got on him to use his quickness against him, to drive on him, and on the next play Rondo drove by him and made one of the most awesome dunks of his career.

I sustain that it's his biggest offensive weapon by a wide margin, and feel that he doesn't use it enough in that context.

  It's true that Rondo scores more effectively when he gets to the rim but wouldn't that also be true for all of the other players that were on the list?

Holds no relation what I'm saying. It's not about where one is more effective, but the various ways a player can be effective.

For example, if Harden has an opening to shoot a 3, he would probably take it because he can make that shot with good effectiveness. Rondo on the other hand if he has some space, he'll probably take that opportunity to go to the basket because 3-pointers don't present a good opportunity for him to score.

The point is, that given this situation, it should be expected that Rondo being this type of player would be a league leader in penetrations per game, particularly considering the amount of time he has the ball in his hands, and considering the amount of playing time he gets in a game. And I propose that him being this high on the list is all fine and dandy, but considering the type of player Rondo is, it's still not good enough.

  Are you talking about scoring only? Because Rondo's most effective weapon isn't his shooting, it's his passing. Those other guys all take a lot more shots than Rondo but also have fewer assists.

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2013, 10:57:52 AM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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Quote
What I do want to see though is a change in how our ball moves, and how much Rondo dominates the ball in our half-court sets, and how quickly he starts our offense. And it's not solely on him, Pierce has a hand in that aspect too.

  I'd say we certainly look different without Rondo (or PP) controlling the ball during half-court sets but I think that, for all the ball movement, we're ending up with similar shots at the same time in the shot clock that we typically see.

I think you're underestimating rhythm and the effect ball movement has on defenses. I'll tell you this much though, we'd be getting even better shots if the ball was moving this way with Rondo on the floor because despite everything, he's still our best passer and has the batter vision.

And we've seen it with Rondo, but just through stretches.

  I agree that we'd get better shots if we ran this with Rondo. But no matter the effect ball movement may have on defenses we're still getting similar shots at similar times in the shot clock from the half court game.


Quote
And I'm one of the few out there that actually like Rondo off the ball, so would like to see more of that. I think his style of play could be more dangerous from those positions, particularly since he's a bit averse at taking players off the dribble for some reason despite it being an option for him in pretty much every single play.

  Not sure exactly what you're referring to. Also, someone posted in another thread that Rondo drives into the lane more than almost anyone else in the league.

I don't think that really means much, particularly with the amount of control he has on possessions, and how he compares to other players and their ability to get shots off on other points in the court.

  I'm not sure how Rondo's getting shots on other points in the court affects whether he has an aversion to taking people off the dribble.
Well, first the aversion comment had nothing to do with my comments about other people's ability to take shots at other points in the of the court. If a player is limited offensively, it should mean that the spots from where he takes his shots should be concentrated in fewer areas than that of a person who's isn't limited offensively.


That said, let's not call it aversion because that's really not it, but not a priority for him, when it should be and something that he should be able to accomplish in just about every play?

Not really an example of this, but I still recall that game against Detroit when they put Hamilton to guard Rondo, and he was bothering Rondo, or Rondo wasn't taking advantage of the situation. Then Doc got on him to use his quickness against him, to drive on him, and on the next play Rondo drove by him and made one of the most awesome dunks of his career.

I sustain that it's his biggest offensive weapon by a wide margin, and feel that he doesn't use it enough in that context.

  It's true that Rondo scores more effectively when he gets to the rim but wouldn't that also be true for all of the other players that were on the list?

Holds no relation what I'm saying. It's not about where one is more effective, but the various ways a player can be effective.

For example, if Harden has an opening to shoot a 3, he would probably take it because he can make that shot with good effectiveness. Rondo on the other hand if he has some space, he'll probably take that opportunity to go to the basket because 3-pointers don't present a good opportunity for him to score.

The point is, that given this situation, it should be expected that Rondo being this type of player would be a league leader in penetrations per game, particularly considering the amount of time he has the ball in his hands, and considering the amount of playing time he gets in a game. And I propose that him being this high on the list is all fine and dandy, but considering the type of player Rondo is, it's still not good enough.

  Are you talking about scoring only? Because Rondo's most effective weapon isn't his shooting, it's his passing. Those other guys all take a lot more shots than Rondo but also have fewer assists.

Don't care for the distinction between shooting or passing, penetration for him is the key to his game in whatever he ends up doing.

Re: Marc Stein's astute quote re: Rondo in this weekend's Daily Dime
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2013, 11:07:24 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Quote
What I do want to see though is a change in how our ball moves, and how much Rondo dominates the ball in our half-court sets, and how quickly he starts our offense. And it's not solely on him, Pierce has a hand in that aspect too.

  I'd say we certainly look different without Rondo (or PP) controlling the ball during half-court sets but I think that, for all the ball movement, we're ending up with similar shots at the same time in the shot clock that we typically see.

I think you're underestimating rhythm and the effect ball movement has on defenses. I'll tell you this much though, we'd be getting even better shots if the ball was moving this way with Rondo on the floor because despite everything, he's still our best passer and has the batter vision.

And we've seen it with Rondo, but just through stretches.

  I agree that we'd get better shots if we ran this with Rondo. But no matter the effect ball movement may have on defenses we're still getting similar shots at similar times in the shot clock from the half court game.


Quote
And I'm one of the few out there that actually like Rondo off the ball, so would like to see more of that. I think his style of play could be more dangerous from those positions, particularly since he's a bit averse at taking players off the dribble for some reason despite it being an option for him in pretty much every single play.

  Not sure exactly what you're referring to. Also, someone posted in another thread that Rondo drives into the lane more than almost anyone else in the league.

I don't think that really means much, particularly with the amount of control he has on possessions, and how he compares to other players and their ability to get shots off on other points in the court.

  I'm not sure how Rondo's getting shots on other points in the court affects whether he has an aversion to taking people off the dribble.
Well, first the aversion comment had nothing to do with my comments about other people's ability to take shots at other points in the of the court. If a player is limited offensively, it should mean that the spots from where he takes his shots should be concentrated in fewer areas than that of a person who's isn't limited offensively.


That said, let's not call it aversion because that's really not it, but not a priority for him, when it should be and something that he should be able to accomplish in just about every play?

Not really an example of this, but I still recall that game against Detroit when they put Hamilton to guard Rondo, and he was bothering Rondo, or Rondo wasn't taking advantage of the situation. Then Doc got on him to use his quickness against him, to drive on him, and on the next play Rondo drove by him and made one of the most awesome dunks of his career.

I sustain that it's his biggest offensive weapon by a wide margin, and feel that he doesn't use it enough in that context.

  It's true that Rondo scores more effectively when he gets to the rim but wouldn't that also be true for all of the other players that were on the list?

Holds no relation what I'm saying. It's not about where one is more effective, but the various ways a player can be effective.

For example, if Harden has an opening to shoot a 3, he would probably take it because he can make that shot with good effectiveness. Rondo on the other hand if he has some space, he'll probably take that opportunity to go to the basket because 3-pointers don't present a good opportunity for him to score.

The point is, that given this situation, it should be expected that Rondo being this type of player would be a league leader in penetrations per game, particularly considering the amount of time he has the ball in his hands, and considering the amount of playing time he gets in a game. And I propose that him being this high on the list is all fine and dandy, but considering the type of player Rondo is, it's still not good enough.

  Are you talking about scoring only? Because Rondo's most effective weapon isn't his shooting, it's his passing. Those other guys all take a lot more shots than Rondo but also have fewer assists.

Don't care for the distinction between shooting or passing, penetration for him is the key to his game in whatever he ends up doing.

  It's a pretty big distinction. Rondo gets plenty of assists without driving into the lane. It's probably true that Harden or Parker or Westbrook can score more effectively than Rondo can from many areas of the court, but he can probably pass more effectively than they can score from most of those spots.

 

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