Author Topic: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?  (Read 4912 times)

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Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2013, 06:17:49 PM »

Online BballTim

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snippet from this thing:
Quote
Rajon Rondo’s agent says his client isn’t listening to the wayward words of those who believe the Celtics will actually be a better team in the long run without their All-Star point guard. But the representative knows what’s being discussed by some of the team’s followers, and he dismissed such talk decisively yesterday.

“I don’t really have a reaction to that,” said Bill Duffy. “But if those people think they can win a championship without him, I think that’s shortsighted.

“I mean, this is the regular season. This guy’s a playoffs superstar. So I think you can take a lot of what happens in the regular season with a grain of salt.”

I don't like this because if the agent is saying this it almost makes me feel like RR is saying this. It's like saying the Celtics are nothing without Rondo. It's rubbed me the wrong way and I kinda hope we win it all without him now.

I've never necessarily been a RR basher but at what point is EVERYONE going to be realistic. We won a championship in 2008 with rondo playing pretty regularly. His averages aren't anything to crazy about. Maybe a couple great games...but are you all really saying we don't have the talent on our bench? They can't find something dip within them?

And at what point are these regular season wins going to MEAN something? I just hate that notion. If we go 10-0 or even 15-0, we will still be saying it doesn't mean anything?

Why is the realism for Rondo so totally skewed and overrated? He's a great ball player and I hope he can adapt to this system we have. He has ONE ring when he avged 10.2pts/4.1rebs/6.6assists on 40.7% shooting in 32 minutes. Really?


http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/02/rondo_agent%E2%80%99s_not_sold_new_celtics

My concern is moreso that he said "you can rake the regular season with a grain of salt".  If this is feedback from Rondo being forwarded through his agent, then that pretty much confirms the thought that he doesn't care about the regular season, and only bothers to play in playoff games, or games against playoff teams.  I don't like that "choose which games you play in" attitude at all because you need to beat teams in the regular season in order to make the playoffs.

If this (as many of us feared) really is his attitude I would trade him now.

  Aside from the fact that you have no idea whether Rondo had anything to do with that comment, are you advocating trading all of the players who seem to have stepped up while Rondo's out? Do we need players on offense who play harder only when they have a bigger role on offense?

I think this is debateable for a couple reasons. Doc's system to use role players for one or two things. It feels like many of them are not allowed to or don't feel comfortable playing outside of what the system says. For example, JET running all those double screens like Ray did -- that's not his game but that's what he has to do. As much as I hate the PP iso, he has to do it even if he may not want to.

I think these players aren't playing harder but they're playing FREER. They're playing to their strengths and don't have as many things holding them back. And as I've said before the only thing they have to step up to do is rebound.

Jeff Green was a puppet in the corner. If he did cut, Rondo almost always looked him off. Jet was being utilized as a spot up shooter, not much of a creator. So forth and so on.

  In one post you attack Rondo's effort at times and call him a diva, in another post you explain why it's ok for people to lollygag around on the court because "they aren't comfortable with their roles". Go figure.

  Also, look at the quotes you're seeing from the team about how players are stepping up because they normally expect Rondo to do so much for the team, now they have to do things on their own. You're attacking the player who's team claims he does much of the heavy lifting and defending the players who were to a point watching him do all the work.

oh, I never said they were lollygagging around, so that's where you're wrong. I essentially said they were too much in a box.

of course they're going to say they're stepping up. fortunately they know a bit of PR and aren't going to be classless like the agent here or like our western rivals the lakers. Jet is probably the only one who has said we get to play freer. DA has said they get to play more free. Doc has essentially said that.

  Pretty sure Jet also said the wings were going to run harder up the court when we got a rebound to try and get more transition points.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #76 on: February 09, 2013, 06:25:44 PM »

Offline kgainez

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It bothers me that rondo can score 30 points in one game and 6 in another and think thats hunky dory. It bothers me that Rondo can be pass first one game, and take the shots the next. That's inconsistency. And in no way are we to be consistent until our leader is. He doesn't get to coast.

  Rondo's role on the team isn't to score 30 points. He does at times but he's more valuable as a passer. The guy came close to the all time double digit assist streak and he probably has more double doubles in the last year than any other point guard. That's not inconsistent unless you don't understand anything that a point guard like Rondo contributes to a team other than scoring. And being pass first in one game and shooting more the next game isn't inconsistent, it's being able to contribute to the team in multiple ways depending on the situation.

i disagree
almost always when he's scoring we don't win. i just believe in ball movement and getting everyone involved. not just paul and kg.
one game he comes out super aggressive, the next game he's passive. that's inconsistent. you might as well say the team isn't inconsistent because we're just waiting to see what the other team gives us. no...we have to always be aggressive and play hard.

you know what to expect when these contenders play. never know what to expect when boston plays. and i (personally) blame that on Rondo.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #77 on: February 09, 2013, 06:40:57 PM »

Online BballTim

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It bothers me that rondo can score 30 points in one game and 6 in another and think thats hunky dory. It bothers me that Rondo can be pass first one game, and take the shots the next. That's inconsistency. And in no way are we to be consistent until our leader is. He doesn't get to coast.

  Rondo's role on the team isn't to score 30 points. He does at times but he's more valuable as a passer. The guy came close to the all time double digit assist streak and he probably has more double doubles in the last year than any other point guard. That's not inconsistent unless you don't understand anything that a point guard like Rondo contributes to a team other than scoring. And being pass first in one game and shooting more the next game isn't inconsistent, it's being able to contribute to the team in multiple ways depending on the situation.

i disagree
almost always when he's scoring we don't win. i just believe in ball movement and getting everyone involved. not just paul and kg.
one game he comes out super aggressive, the next game he's passive. that's inconsistent. you might as well say the team isn't inconsistent because we're just waiting to see what the other team gives us. no...we have to always be aggressive and play hard.

you know what to expect when these contenders play. never know what to expect when boston plays. and i (personally) blame that on Rondo.

  We win some of the games when he scores well but many of the games where he's scoring it's because nobody else is stepping up on offense. I'd also say that you'd probably never notice when anyone on the team other than Rondo was playing passively and never consider how hard it makes it for Rondo to run the offense when that happens. Not surprising that you blame the team's overall play on Rondo.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #78 on: February 09, 2013, 07:13:19 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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First of all, I find nothing wrong with his agent's comments. I'd fire my agent if his loyalty lies with the team not with his client.

Secondly, I'm getting tired of all this Rondo bashing. Winning 6 games without him does not make us better without him. Sure the team is playing better NOW, but in the playoffs, we will surely need him. What bothers me this season though, is that both Rondo and Pierce seem to have that mindset Sheed's Pistons had during their contender years, not putting much effort into the regular season. Both have been driving me crazy with their play this season, and maybe its on Doc to actually limit their minutes so they wouldn't have to coast so much.

People are forgetting that the playoffs is a very different animal indeed. When the game slows down, and the other team has ample of time to figure you out, know your weaknesses, your plays etc, its rondo's creativity that can solve the riddle that is the opposing team's defense.

I really wish we could have Rondo back by playoffs but I know its impossible.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #79 on: February 09, 2013, 08:22:30 PM »

Offline cltc5

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First of all, I find nothing wrong with his agent's comments. I'd fire my agent if his loyalty lies with the team not with his client.

Secondly, I'm getting tired of all this Rondo bashing. Winning 6 games without him does not make us better without him. Sure the team is playing better NOW, but in the playoffs, we will surely need him. What bothers me this season though, is that both Rondo and Pierce seem to have that mindset Sheed's Pistons had during their contender years, not putting much effort into the regular season. Both have been driving me crazy with their play this season, and maybe its on Doc to actually limit their minutes so they wouldn't have to coast so much.

People are forgetting that the playoffs is a very different animal indeed. When the game slows down, and the other team has ample of time to figure you out, know your weaknesses, your plays etc, its rondo's creativity that can solve the riddle that is the opposing team's defense.

I really wish we could have Rondo back by playoffs but I know its impossible.

Im sick of this "in the Playoffs" argument.  Playoff Rondo has yet to be the difference for us winning a championship.  And with the players we have now and him hogging the ball, he would be the difference with us having an early exit.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #80 on: February 09, 2013, 08:38:04 PM »

Online BballTim

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First of all, I find nothing wrong with his agent's comments. I'd fire my agent if his loyalty lies with the team not with his client.

Secondly, I'm getting tired of all this Rondo bashing. Winning 6 games without him does not make us better without him. Sure the team is playing better NOW, but in the playoffs, we will surely need him. What bothers me this season though, is that both Rondo and Pierce seem to have that mindset Sheed's Pistons had during their contender years, not putting much effort into the regular season. Both have been driving me crazy with their play this season, and maybe its on Doc to actually limit their minutes so they wouldn't have to coast so much.

People are forgetting that the playoffs is a very different animal indeed. When the game slows down, and the other team has ample of time to figure you out, know your weaknesses, your plays etc, its rondo's creativity that can solve the riddle that is the opposing team's defense.

I really wish we could have Rondo back by playoffs but I know its impossible.

Im sick of this "in the Playoffs" argument.  Playoff Rondo has yet to be the difference for us winning a championship.  And with the players we have now and him hogging the ball, he would be the difference with us having an early exit.

  We've gotten to the finals and the ecf recently. That's not a title but it's nothing to sneeze at. Rondo was 26 in the playoffs last year. Go back over the last 30 years and start finding teams who won the title whose best player was Rondo's age or younger. The list will be extremely short.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #81 on: February 09, 2013, 09:02:51 PM »

Offline badshar

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Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

  Only the team didn't collapse when KG went down.

It kinda did. Our frontline was heavily exposed.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #82 on: February 09, 2013, 09:18:01 PM »

Online BballTim

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Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

  Only the team didn't collapse when KG went down.

It kinda did. Our frontline was heavily exposed.

  I think we were 18-7 without KG that year and went to game 7 of the 2nd round. Our front line was heavily exposed, luckily we got almost 10 rpg from our point guard.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #83 on: February 09, 2013, 09:27:14 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Im sick of this "in the Playoffs" argument.  Playoff Rondo has yet to be the difference for us winning a championship.  And with the players we have now and him hogging the ball, he would be the difference with us having an early exit.

If the Celtics end up with a significantly regular season record without Rondo than with him, but the team fails to do as well in the post-season as their record might suggest they should do, would you consider that evidence that losing Rondo may have hurt the team's chances in the playoffs?
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Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #84 on: February 09, 2013, 09:28:08 PM »

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Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

  Only the team didn't collapse when KG went down.

It kinda did. Our frontline was heavily exposed.

  I think we were 18-7 without KG that year and went to game 7 of the 2nd round. Our front line was heavily exposed, luckily we got almost 10 rpg from our point guard.

But again, we had other injuries, like Powe and Scalabrine playing with a concussion.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #85 on: February 09, 2013, 09:33:45 PM »

Online BballTim

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Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

  Only the team didn't collapse when KG went down.

It kinda did. Our frontline was heavily exposed.

  I think we were 18-7 without KG that year and went to game 7 of the 2nd round. Our front line was heavily exposed, luckily we got almost 10 rpg from our point guard.

But again, we had other injuries, like Powe and Scalabrine playing with a concussion.

  I agree. If we hadn't lost Leon we would have had an easier time with Chicago, fewer games and fewer overtimes. If we weren't so spent after Chicago we'd have had an easier time with Orlando.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #86 on: February 09, 2013, 09:53:27 PM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

  Only the team didn't collapse when KG went down.

It kinda did. Our frontline was heavily exposed.

  I think we were 18-7 without KG that year and went to game 7 of the 2nd round. Our front line was heavily exposed, luckily we got almost 10 rpg from our point guard.

But again, we had other injuries, like Powe and Scalabrine playing with a concussion.

  I agree. If we hadn't lost Leon we would have had an easier time with Chicago, fewer games and fewer overtimes. If we weren't so spent after Chicago we'd have had an easier time with Orlando.

It would have also given us some other options to deal with Lewis, particularly punishing him inside with Powe, and potentially get him in foul trouble. If there's something Powe was good for, it was drawing fouls.

Powe was a big loss in it's own right in an already thin big man depth situation.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #87 on: February 09, 2013, 10:01:20 PM »

Online BballTim

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Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

  Only the team didn't collapse when KG went down.

It kinda did. Our frontline was heavily exposed.

  I think we were 18-7 without KG that year and went to game 7 of the 2nd round. Our front line was heavily exposed, luckily we got almost 10 rpg from our point guard.

But again, we had other injuries, like Powe and Scalabrine playing with a concussion.

  I agree. If we hadn't lost Leon we would have had an easier time with Chicago, fewer games and fewer overtimes. If we weren't so spent after Chicago we'd have had an easier time with Orlando.

It would have also given us some other options to deal with Lewis, particularly punishing him inside with Powe, and potentially get him in foul trouble. If there's something Powe was good for, it was drawing fouls.

Powe was a big loss in it's own right in an already thin big man depth situation.

  I still have nightmares of Doc playing Mikki Moore in those playoffs. I don't even like typing his name.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #88 on: February 09, 2013, 10:09:05 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

?

I'll reiterate: 

* The Celtics had a 10-1 stretch without KG in 2009;

* That happened because the team pulled together;

* However, nobody would take that record as a sign that KG wasn't important;

* Therefore, in determining a player's importance, you need to look at more than the team's record when they were out.

Where did I lose you?  Nowhere did I say that Rondo is or isn't as important as 2009 KG was.  What I said was, the record without other context just doesn't mean a lot right now.  Do you disagree with that, or are you just pushing an agenda?

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Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #89 on: February 09, 2013, 10:29:32 PM »

Online BballTim

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Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Did you seriously just compare KG's importance to the Celtics with Rondo's importance to the Celtics?

That team was built around KG, Pierce and Allen. Hence, when KG went down, the team collapsed. Same reason Heat almost lost when Bosh went down. While the team is constructed as Rondo leading them, Ainge has not put all the leadership duties on him, as demonstrated by his free agent signings. There are a lot of players that can put this team on their back on different nights.

  Aside from RR/PP/KG I'd say that the player that's come closest to putting this team on his back at any point in time is Sully. How many games has anyone else carried the team?

 

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