Author Topic: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?  (Read 4892 times)

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Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2013, 01:41:53 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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hold on. I'm not saying the 6 game winning streak means we are going to win it all.

Let's be REALISTIC, if we thought a team that sat at 20-23 WITH RONDO was going to win Banner 18 as they played, then we were all in for a special treat.

What I'm saying is, the 6 game winning streak is evidence that this team is actually making a REAL turn around. Our previous 6 game winning streak, we had 3 convincing wins and 3 that really sucked. Then we turned around and started a losing streak my losing to the Hornets.

We are winning games we should. Giving our all consistently in games with higher competition. Everyone is locked in and focused now. Everyone is being utilized now. That's just what it is.

Oh ok then well in that case maybe. I'm not convinced we've turned it around yet either tho. If we have a good roadtrip *Its coming up* ill be convinced.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2013, 01:45:33 PM »

Offline manl_lui

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Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too. However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Its not just that we won 6 in a row but its the way we're doing it. It looks alot better than the first 6 game winning streak we had. The one game we didn't look good in we still found a way to win *Raptors game*. Still I'm not convinced by any means.

We win against the Heat in Double OT, after we just had a Double OT and lost.
We handle the Sacremento Kings by double digits, a team that handled us by 20+ earlier in the season.
Handle the Magic.
Find a way to blow a lead with the Clippers and STILL win.
We win against Raptors after being down 10 in the 4th to come back and win by 5....in regulation.
We then turn around and beat the uptrending Lakers by 21 points, and led them by 30 at one point.

and these mean nothing to you? You do know that earlier in the season we would've lost to the Heat, the Clippers and the Raptors?

I just would love to know at what point are these wins 'conclusive' enough for you experts? lol. These are all night and day wins of losses we've endured....and still, nothing???

wow

It means we won 6 straight and I had fun watching it, that's it. What do you want me to say? The celtics are legit championship contenders because they won 6 games in a row in the regular season?

I'd also like to add, the Heat game was the first game Rondo has went down, and we needed something completely new to face the Heat. We would've beat the Heat in regulation if it wasn't for a few defense mistakes, but after that game, we have been rolling

does it mean we are better with Rondo, NO, of course not...Rondo always shows up during playoffs, so therefore we need Rondo

but it does mean Rondo needs to adapt to this current system, and we should not have him pound the ball so much

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2013, 01:53:28 PM »

Offline kgainez

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Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too. However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Its not just that we won 6 in a row but its the way we're doing it. It looks alot better than the first 6 game winning streak we had. The one game we didn't look good in we still found a way to win *Raptors game*. Still I'm not convinced by any means.

We win against the Heat in Double OT, after we just had a Double OT and lost.
We handle the Sacremento Kings by double digits, a team that handled us by 20+ earlier in the season.
Handle the Magic.
Find a way to blow a lead with the Clippers and STILL win.
We win against Raptors after being down 10 in the 4th to come back and win by 5....in regulation.
We then turn around and beat the uptrending Lakers by 21 points, and led them by 30 at one point.

and these mean nothing to you? You do know that earlier in the season we would've lost to the Heat, the Clippers and the Raptors?

I just would love to know at what point are these wins 'conclusive' enough for you experts? lol. These are all night and day wins of losses we've endured....and still, nothing???

wow

It means we won 6 straight and I had fun watching it, that's it. What do you want me to say? The celtics are legit championship contenders because they won 6 games in a row in the regular season?

I'd also like to add, the Heat game was the first game Rondo has went down, and we needed something completely new to face the Heat. We would've beat the Heat in regulation if it wasn't for a few defense mistakes, but after that game, we have been rolling

does it mean we are better with Rondo, NO, of course not...Rondo always shows up during playoffs, so therefore we need Rondo

but it does mean Rondo needs to adapt to this current system, and we should not have him pound the ball so much

that's a new perspective. i think the heat is one of the teams we need to absolutely beat the Heat...but I can see your point. We definitely found a way to win.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2013, 01:54:16 PM »

Offline jbaerg

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I'm a big fan of the argument that even though this team is playing extremely well, the team has unlimited potential with Rondo (when he buys into the system)

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2013, 01:56:48 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too. However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Its not just that we won 6 in a row but its the way we're doing it. It looks alot better than the first 6 game winning streak we had. The one game we didn't look good in we still found a way to win *Raptors game*. Still I'm not convinced by any means.

We win against the Heat in Double OT, after we just had a Double OT and lost.
We handle the Sacremento Kings by double digits, a team that handled us by 20+ earlier in the season.
Handle the Magic.
Find a way to blow a lead with the Clippers and STILL win.
We win against Raptors after being down 10 in the 4th to come back and win by 5....in regulation.
We then turn around and beat the uptrending Lakers by 21 points, and led them by 30 at one point.

and these mean nothing to you? You do know that earlier in the season we would've lost to the Heat, the Clippers and the Raptors?

I just would love to know at what point are these wins 'conclusive' enough for you experts? lol. These are all night and day wins of losses we've endured....and still, nothing???

wow

It means we won 6 straight and I had fun watching it, that's it. What do you want me to say? The celtics are legit championship contenders because they won 6 games in a row in the regular season?

I'd also like to add, the Heat game was the first game Rondo has went down, and we needed something completely new to face the Heat. We would've beat the Heat in regulation if it wasn't for a few defense mistakes, but after that game, we have been rolling

does it mean we are better with Rondo, NO, of course not...Rondo always shows up during playoffs, so therefore we need Rondo

but it does mean Rondo needs to adapt to this current system, and we should not have him pound the ball so much

With the way we're playing, one would think we're playing a different sport than basketball!
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Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2013, 02:20:03 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

And boom, Roy again delivers the sanity.

We lost in 7 games against the Magic, in the 2nd round, and they went to the finals.

We also lost Powe in the first round.

We were also relying on Scalabrine who returned during the playoffs after suffering some concussions, and if reports are to be believed, was playing with the symptoms still.

We were playing without a back-up SF, Tony was hurt and Doc didn't trust him, none of our rookies were prepared to at least give us a few minutes, and we only had Scal.

Pierce was out of gas, Rondo got hurt if I'm not mistaken during the playoffs.

The point is, a lot more happened to us that year other than losing Garnett, and yet, we performed at a high level when it counted, we just fell short in  a series that I still think we should've won.

That said, no way in hell we were better without KG and agree with the premise, but just like back then, it would be a mistake to underestimate this team just because a star player goes down. So while 10-1 wasn't representative of us playing better, it did show us how this team could still be dangerous come playoff time, and the same applies to us right now.
We almost lost to the Bulls in the first round, we also went from a +8 scoring differential (elite like 07-08) to a mere +2 differential.

We still matched up well with Howard's magic that year due to our ability to guard Howard. Only Rashard caused us issues and that's what generally beat us that series.

LBJ's Cavs would have chewed us up and spit us out without KG to play help defense against him.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2013, 02:24:14 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
LBJ's Cavs would have chewed us up and spit us out without KG to play help defense against him.

They would have ate us alive without Rondo too.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2013, 02:38:17 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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snippet from this thing:
Quote
Rajon Rondo’s agent says his client isn’t listening to the wayward words of those who believe the Celtics will actually be a better team in the long run without their All-Star point guard. But the representative knows what’s being discussed by some of the team’s followers, and he dismissed such talk decisively yesterday.

“I don’t really have a reaction to that,” said Bill Duffy. “But if those people think they can win a championship without him, I think that’s shortsighted.

“I mean, this is the regular season. This guy’s a playoffs superstar. So I think you can take a lot of what happens in the regular season with a grain of salt.”

I don't like this because if the agent is saying this it almost makes me feel like RR is saying this. It's like saying the Celtics are nothing without Rondo. It's rubbed me the wrong way and I kinda hope we win it all without him now.

I've never necessarily been a RR basher but at what point is EVERYONE going to be realistic. We won a championship in 2008 with rondo playing pretty regularly. His averages aren't anything to crazy about. Maybe a couple great games...but are you all really saying we don't have the talent on our bench? They can't find something dip within them?

And at what point are these regular season wins going to MEAN something? I just hate that notion. If we go 10-0 or even 15-0, we will still be saying it doesn't mean anything?

Why is the realism for Rondo so totally skewed and overrated? He's a great ball player and I hope he can adapt to this system we have. He has ONE ring when he avged 10.2pts/4.1rebs/6.6assists on 40.7% shooting in 32 minutes. Really?


http://bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2013/02/rondo_agent%E2%80%99s_not_sold_new_celtics

The bolded part is a good point, BUT - if one looked closely in that clinching game 6 vs LA in 07-08, Rajon Rondo flirted with a QUADRUPLE double in that game - 21 pts, 7 rebs, 8 assists, SIX STEALS, only 1 TO. Perhaps the one bad was 8-20 shooting, but everything else points to, to me at least, a VERY under-rated performance.

We had KG, Ray and Paul and those three were still very close to their primes, so I can understand a bit why Rondo's performance could be overlooked.

As for his agent? Well, I'd say he's doing what any good agent would do - protecting his client.

My observation in regards to the win streak w/without Rondo? It should be looked at both ways, here - Rajon Rondo DOES dominate a the ball A BIT...as a maturing player, I'd hope he realizes this and perhaps consult with Doc, KG and Paul and continue to become a better player.

But we must NOT blind ourselves, here...my opinion is that - based off of how we've played since Rondo got hurt - there IS an extremely small shot at getting to June 2013 without him...part of that is my Green Koolaid I drink often, and another part is the fact that the team IS playing VERY WELL right now...beating MIA, Lakers (still a dangerous team), a revamped and better TOR in TOR, plus I think we've gotten sharper defensively.

Having Rajon Rondo opens that window up a bit for us.

He WILL be missed dearly...."How" much is dependent upon how this team continues to play without him and how much they "want" it.

We DO, IMO - Need Rajon Rondo going forward. The only player I'd perhaps trade him for is Chris Paul.

He is  - IMO - "That" good.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2013, 02:46:08 PM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

And boom, Roy again delivers the sanity.

We lost in 7 games against the Magic, in the 2nd round, and they went to the finals.

We also lost Powe in the first round.

We were also relying on Scalabrine who returned during the playoffs after suffering some concussions, and if reports are to be believed, was playing with the symptoms still.

We were playing without a back-up SF, Tony was hurt and Doc didn't trust him, none of our rookies were prepared to at least give us a few minutes, and we only had Scal.

Pierce was out of gas, Rondo got hurt if I'm not mistaken during the playoffs.

The point is, a lot more happened to us that year other than losing Garnett, and yet, we performed at a high level when it counted, we just fell short in  a series that I still think we should've won.

That said, no way in hell we were better without KG and agree with the premise, but just like back then, it would be a mistake to underestimate this team just because a star player goes down. So while 10-1 wasn't representative of us playing better, it did show us how this team could still be dangerous come playoff time, and the same applies to us right now.
We almost lost to the Bulls in the first round, we also went from a +8 scoring differential (elite like 07-08) to a mere +2 differential.

We still matched up well with Howard's magic that year due to our ability to guard Howard. Only Rashard caused us issues and that's what generally beat us that series.

LBJ's Cavs would have chewed us up and spit us out without KG to play help defense against him.

All true, yet I would've relished the chance to try. We did beat the Cavs that season though without KG once. Not that it means much, but considering how the Cavs played through that season, it was an accomplishment. We did have Powe though back then, and the Cavs really had no answer for him.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2013, 03:02:23 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Maybe you might think his agent is out of line saying this in the media but at least he is being truthful and saying what everyone already knows.

that's an awful argument lol

i think our play off run may be a tinch easier with Rondo but everyone is making it seem like we are getting swept first round. like there's no one (or two people) in the world that can avg 10 points and 6 assists on our current roster.

how is going 6-0 with several convincing wins to be taken with a grain of salt? who REALLY isn't being realistic here?

You're argument is based on 5 years ago when rondo was surrounded by 3 first ballot hall of famers in the last year of their prime in his second Nba season... Well duh... Of course his stats are going to be "regular" it doesn't take away how important he was to the team at that time.

Currently Rondo is our most talented player. To say that the Celtics are "nothing without him" is a) putting words in his mouth that he has never said and B) somewhat silly. But regardless he is still a major focal point of the team and the team will suffer from his absence in the long run without him, just like we would if any other key member went down.
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SG: D. Green/Miller/Wroten
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Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2013, 03:08:04 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

This is the exact stat I was going to look for. We played amazing without KG for a big stretch. But we ended up coming short in the playoffs missing a huge focal point of our unit.

Do I think this squad could probably make a run to the finals and surprise some people and win?...Yes.
If we do in fact win, would it have been easier to do so with Rondo? ...Yes.
DKC: GM Boston Celtics: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuCTllmkG26udHRaa0xrWm1qZTExaHltaEdtZzVRNFE&usp=sharing#gid=50
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PG: Lillard/ReggieJackson
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Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2013, 03:13:25 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too.  However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

This is the exact stat I was going to look for. We played amazing without KG for a big stretch. But we ended up coming short in the playoffs missing a huge focal point of our unit.

Do I think this squad could probably make a run to the finals and surprise some people and win?...Yes.
If we do in fact win, would it have been easier to do so with Rondo? ...Yes.

See, the second part is debatable. The first part isn't.
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Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2013, 03:35:24 PM »

Offline albas89

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This is the exact stat I was going to look for. We played amazing without KG for a big stretch. But we ended up coming short in the playoffs missing a huge focal point of our unit.
Actually I think that Leon Powe's injury cost the Celtics a lot, despite Garnett's absence. With a healthy Leon they would definitely beat the Bulls a lot easier, and maybe beat the Magic and the Cavs as well. You can't expect to make a serious championship run playing Scal+Mikki Moore for 45 mins per game and with a sophomore Big Baby as your starter...
"Life has so many hurdles. Some of them I've hopped over, some of them I've tripped over. The key is to get back up and finish the race."- Paul Pierce

And he did finish...

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2013, 03:35:34 PM »

Offline blink

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Well, at one point we had a stretch where we went 10-1 without KG in 2009.  Sometimes teams can pull together when one of their stars is down.  That doesn't mean the team is better without that player.

I've liked how the Celts have looked, too. However, the record alone isn't conclusive, and the agent is right:  wait until the playoffs before making any long-term decisions.

Its not just that we won 6 in a row but its the way we're doing it. It looks alot better than the first 6 game winning streak we had. The one game we didn't look good in we still found a way to win *Raptors game*. Still I'm not convinced by any means.

We win against the Heat in Double OT, after we just had a Double OT and lost.
We handle the Sacremento Kings by double digits, a team that handled us by 20+ earlier in the season.
Handle the Magic.
Find a way to blow a lead with the Clippers and STILL win.
We win against Raptors after being down 10 in the 4th to come back and win by 5....in regulation.
We then turn around and beat the uptrending Lakers by 21 points, and led them by 30 at one point.

and these mean nothing to you? You do know that earlier in the season we would've lost to the Heat, the Clippers and the Raptors?

I just would love to know at what point are these wins 'conclusive' enough for you experts? lol. These are all night and day wins of losses we've endured....and still, nothing???

wow

It means we won 6 straight and I had fun watching it, that's it. What do you want me to say? The celtics are legit championship contenders because they won 6 games in a row in the regular season?

I'd also like to add, the Heat game was the first game Rondo has went down, and we needed something completely new to face the Heat. We would've beat the Heat in regulation if it wasn't for a few defense mistakes, but after that game, we have been rolling

does it mean we are better with Rondo, NO, of course not...Rondo always shows up during playoffs, so therefore we need Rondo

but it does mean Rondo needs to adapt to this current system, and we should not have him pound the ball so much

I tend to take the middle ground like this post.  From the eye test, obviously we seem to be coming together as a team.  But I don't really see this as a Rondo issue, it is the whole team's issue.

I believe we are NOT better without RR, especially in the playoffs.  I just really hope Rajon is watching these games and learning about how he can help the team even more during his absence. 

Maybe Rondo can use this to be more aware about helping lead his team, and helping people stay involved and understand their role.  But there is also a responsibility for our role players to know that shouldn't take losing Rondo for them to step up and give 100% and find your role / niche.

Re: Rondo's agent concerns me -- realistically?
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2013, 03:44:03 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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I suspect Duffy's phone will be ringing from a 617 area code very shortly for a quick chat about his comments. Just a dumb thing to say, and what's worse, a further implication of his clients growing reputation as a less than stellar team player.
Pretty much, although Duffy's not saying anything that any Celtics fan not awash in manlove doesn't know already.

"My guy is a dominant player WHEN HE WANTS TO PLAY."

Duffy's just saying what some of us have known for years. No biggie.

 

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