Author Topic: Hope DA not swayed by "Fools Gold"!  (Read 2976 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Hope DA not swayed by "Fools Gold"!
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2013, 12:02:16 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11857
  • Tommy Points: 1133
No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.

I don't know why you see our future as grim and are terrified of it, as far as I'm concern we have this team for 2-3 more years, with opportunities to improve each and every year, and after that we'll have ample opportunity to upgrade the team with a lot of cap flexibility and tradeable assets.

The only thing I'm really worried about is about Danny overreacting to how a team played for half a season.

You don't know that. This isn't the first time this year we've won 6 in a row. What were you saying after the last winning streak?

I was high on this team's chances even before we started playing well, so...

Was that before rondo and sully went down as well?

Yes...

Re: Hope DA not swayed by "Fools Gold"!
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2013, 12:09:31 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

  • NCE
  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1949
  • Tommy Points: 134
No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.

I don't know why you see our future as grim and are terrified of it, as far as I'm concern we have this team for 2-3 more years, with opportunities to improve each and every year, and after that we'll have ample opportunity to upgrade the team with a lot of cap flexibility and tradeable assets.

The only thing I'm really worried about is about Danny overreacting to how a team played for half a season.

You don't know that. This isn't the first time this year we've won 6 in a row. What were you saying after the last winning streak?

I was high on this team's chances even before we started playing well, so...

Was that before rondo and sully went down as well?

Yes...

You can't possibly feel the same way about this team after losing players of that magnitude. Best player on the team and best rebounder, done for the season.....

Re: Hope DA not swayed by "Fools Gold"!
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2013, 12:28:22 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11857
  • Tommy Points: 1133
No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.

I don't know why you see our future as grim and are terrified of it, as far as I'm concern we have this team for 2-3 more years, with opportunities to improve each and every year, and after that we'll have ample opportunity to upgrade the team with a lot of cap flexibility and tradeable assets.

The only thing I'm really worried about is about Danny overreacting to how a team played for half a season.

You don't know that. This isn't the first time this year we've won 6 in a row. What were you saying after the last winning streak?

I was high on this team's chances even before we started playing well, so...

Was that before rondo and sully went down as well?

Yes...

You can't possibly feel the same way about this team after losing players of that magnitude. Best player on the team and best rebounder, done for the season.....

Problem is that I don't consider Rondo as the best player of this team, or let me put it this way...the most valuable or important. I've always sustained that a player's added value to the team is as good as the difference of the players that replace him. And since this roster was constructed, I've always said that this team would be fine without Rondo majorly because we're deep in the guard position, with multiple players who can handle the ball, and all of them are talented players.

In fact, was a bit more concerned with losing Sully than Rondo more than anything, but as I mentioned right when went down for the season, this team wasn't constructed with the consideration that Sully would be producing for us as he has been. That he had been, it's been a bonus, but still we got players that can step in and contribute.

I also had mentioned that a big problem for us this year was that Bass and Sully can't play together... well problem solved, and Bass is looking better now (though I think that has more to do with him losing his starting position to Sully against Miami).

I've also continuously mentioned that I'm high on Wilcox and what he brings to this team. More concerned right now about Doc overusing Collins.

The only thing that has changed for me and how I've looked at this team is Jason Terry. Part of it because I was surprised and how poorly him and Rondo played together (even though since the beginning of the season I had stated that they should not play together through long stretches, we give too much size). Yet my position has always stayed that no one in our guard rotation should be traded, but if needed be, and I had to choose between Lee and Terry, then Terry should go.

Since Rondo went down, now things changed and Terry is playing better without him. So no longer has much value for me to trade him.

I remember a thread right after that Nets game we played without Rondo, someone mentioning "this game proves that we need Rondo to win", and posted that completely disagreed, that it proved just the opposite.

In all, I always saw this team as a talented group that could sustain a loss from Rondo, and not falter. Don't see why now that projection should be invalidated now that it has actually happened, and coincidentally we're playing well. This is the reason why we have depth, but now with Rondo and Sully down, depth is a bit of a concern; we have less margin for error/injuries.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 12:39:36 PM by BudweiserCeltic »

Re: Hope DA not swayed by "Fools Gold"!
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2013, 05:54:20 PM »

Offline kgainez

  • NCE
  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1126
  • Tommy Points: 54
No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.

I don't know why you see our future as grim and are terrified of it, as far as I'm concern we have this team for 2-3 more years, with opportunities to improve each and every year, and after that we'll have ample opportunity to upgrade the team with a lot of cap flexibility and tradeable assets.

The only thing I'm really worried about is about Danny overreacting to how a team played for half a season.

You don't know that. This isn't the first time this year we've won 6 in a row. What were you saying after the last winning streak?

I was high on this team's chances even before we started playing well, so...

Was that before rondo and sully went down as well?

Yes...

You can't possibly feel the same way about this team after losing players of that magnitude. Best player on the team and best rebounder, done for the season.....

Problem is that I don't consider Rondo as the best player of this team, or let me put it this way...the most valuable or important. I've always sustained that a player's added value to the team is as good as the difference of the players that replace him. And since this roster was constructed, I've always said that this team would be fine without Rondo majorly because we're deep in the guard position, with multiple players who can handle the ball, and all of them are talented players.

In fact, was a bit more concerned with losing Sully than Rondo more than anything, but as I mentioned right when went down for the season, this team wasn't constructed with the consideration that Sully would be producing for us as he has been. That he had been, it's been a bonus, but still we got players that can step in and contribute.

I also had mentioned that a big problem for us this year was that Bass and Sully can't play together... well problem solved, and Bass is looking better now (though I think that has more to do with him losing his starting position to Sully against Miami).

I've also continuously mentioned that I'm high on Wilcox and what he brings to this team. More concerned right now about Doc overusing Collins.

The only thing that has changed for me and how I've looked at this team is Jason Terry. Part of it because I was surprised and how poorly him and Rondo played together (even though since the beginning of the season I had stated that they should not play together through long stretches, we give too much size). Yet my position has always stayed that no one in our guard rotation should be traded, but if needed be, and I had to choose between Lee and Terry, then Terry should go.

Since Rondo went down, now things changed and Terry is playing better without him. So no longer has much value for me to trade him.

I remember a thread right after that Nets game we played without Rondo, someone mentioning "this game proves that we need Rondo to win", and posted that completely disagreed, that it proved just the opposite.

In all, I always saw this team as a talented group that could sustain a loss from Rondo, and not falter. Don't see why now that projection should be invalidated now that it has actually happened, and coincidentally we're playing well. This is the reason why we have depth, but now with Rondo and Sully down, depth is a bit of a concern; we have less margin for error/injuries.

I agree
I hated losing Sully much more. And I also don't think Rondo is our BEST player. TP for you.

Re: Hope DA not swayed by "Fools Gold"!
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2013, 09:04:31 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

  • Jeff Green
  • Posts: 632
  • Tommy Points: 33
I hope Ainge understands that if Rondo and Sullinger return healthy next season and he can add a useful free agent big, this is a legitimate contender next season.

Of course it is. With PP losing more of his jump shot and going flatter by the day, and no legs, KG playing 25 mins a game next year, JET taking 2/3 of the season to find his shot, hell we will go undefeated! ::)

Re: Hope DA not swayed by "Fools Gold"!
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2013, 09:48:28 AM »

Offline Casperian

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2607
  • Tommy Points: 160
No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.

I certainly never said we could never play well again.

However, what I did say was

Being streaky is the mark of an once great team (much like it is for extremely talented, young teams). In the end, quality trumps chemistry, energy and experience.

"Playing well" isn´t the same as winning the championship, you know?
Mama don't take my Kodachrome away

Re: Hope DA not swayed by "Fools Gold"!
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2013, 09:51:40 AM »

Offline CelticConcourse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6175
  • Tommy Points: 382
  • Jeff Green
Being streaky is the mark of an once great team (much like it is for extremely talented, young teams). In the end, quality trumps chemistry, energy and experience.

"Playing well" isn´t the same as winning the championship, you know?

Dude, you're literally talking to yourself.
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: Hope DA not swayed by "Fools Gold"!
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2013, 09:55:46 AM »

Offline Casperian

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2607
  • Tommy Points: 160
Being streaky is the mark of an once great team (much like it is for extremely talented, young teams). In the end, quality trumps chemistry, energy and experience.

"Playing well" isn´t the same as winning the championship, you know?

Dude, you're literally talking to yourself.

You might want to take a closer look.

I was quoting what I said back in December.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 10:00:48 AM by Casperian »
Mama don't take my Kodachrome away

Re: Hope DA not swayed by "Fools Gold"!
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2013, 10:00:42 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11857
  • Tommy Points: 1133
No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.

I certainly never said we could never play well again.

However, what I did say was

Being streaky is the mark of an once great team (much like it is for extremely talented, young teams). In the end, quality trumps chemistry, energy and experience.

"Playing well" isn´t the same as winning the championship, you know?

Have no clue what you're getting at.

Re: Hope DA not swayed by "Fools Gold"!
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2013, 10:03:29 AM »

Offline CelticConcourse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6175
  • Tommy Points: 382
  • Jeff Green
No Fools Gold here... just because you guys didn't believe it to be the case, and suddenly we playing well now contrary to your initial believes, doesn't invalidate the capacity of this team.

I certainly never said we could never play well again.

However, what I did say was

Being streaky is the mark of an once great team (much like it is for extremely talented, young teams). In the end, quality trumps chemistry, energy and experience.

"Playing well" isn´t the same as winning the championship, you know?

Have no clue what you're getting at.

I'm pretty sure "playing well" is always used as a relative term as to if one is playing well enough to win a championship.
Ether that or you turn into the ATL Hawks
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: Hope DA not swayed by "Fools Gold"!
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2013, 10:12:34 AM »

Offline Casperian

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2607
  • Tommy Points: 160
Have no clue what you're getting at.

You made it sound as if believing this team could play well and believing we´re incapable of winning a championship are mutually exclusive, which I object.

Unless you were talking purely about people doubting the ability of this team to play well, at all, which would be a rather radical stance I haven´t seen posted yet, and in which case I´m sorry for misinterpreting your post.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 10:18:05 AM by Casperian »
Mama don't take my Kodachrome away

Re: Hope DA not swayed by "Fools Gold"!
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2013, 10:27:56 AM »

Offline Casperian

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2607
  • Tommy Points: 160
I'm pretty sure "playing well" is always used as a relative term as to if one is playing well enough to win a championship.

I´m not sure if this post is tongue-in-cheek.

If you have one of the highest payrolls in the league, and a bunch of highly paid players on long-term contracts, then yes, absolutely.
Mama don't take my Kodachrome away

Re: Hope DA not swayed by "Fools Gold"!
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2013, 10:36:17 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11857
  • Tommy Points: 1133
Have no clue what you're getting at.

You made it sound as if believing this team could play well and believing we´re incapable of winning a championship are mutually exclusive, which I object.

Unless you were talking purely about people doubting the ability of this team to play well, at all, which would be a rather radical stance I haven´t seen posted yet, and in which case I´m sorry for misinterpreting your post.

Could go either way, I really don't care to make the distinction. This team is capable of playing very well, and beating anyone in the league and yes even get a championship. It's been my stance at all points of the season.

I'd say this much, I don't think the multitude of the doubters were envisioning us capable of playing like we've been lately, so that's that. But now many are revising their stance with "oh, it's because suddenly we're playing hard now" which is crap in my opinion.

Re: Hope DA not swayed by "Fools Gold"!
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2013, 11:14:40 AM »

Offline badshar

  • Jeff Green
  • Posts: 576
  • Tommy Points: 67
I find this thread pretty stupid.

All these so-called Celtics fans who want to trade KG and Pierce, do you not realize the simple fact that you need stars to win a championship, not role players, or extreme luck?

Let's be real, if you call rondo a superstar, you are dreaming. As good as he is, he won't carry the team by himself.
For us to win a championship with rondo and role players, every major star on the opposing team has to go down.
Additionally, guess what? We are not as lucky as OKC to build a championship team through the draft.

If we trade Pierce and KG now, we will be awful for the next several years.

We will not be the bobcats because rondo and other trade assets will hopefully be good enough to at least make the playoffs or just miss them, and we will never be championship contenders for obvious reasons.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 11:34:58 AM by badshar »

Re: Hope DA not swayed by "Fools Gold"!
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2013, 11:21:46 AM »

Offline clover

  • Front Page Moderator
  • Jim Loscutoff
  • ****
  • Posts: 4886
  • Tommy Points: 229
I don't really think the issue is fool's gold at this point. 

Instead I think it has to do with Danny likely not getting sufficiently good offers for KG and Pierce, who apparently would both likely have to go, to give the remaining team the advantages of at least remaining competitive (e.g., preserving the value of the contracts that they'll still be holding) and new assets to offset their plunge.

I don't think Danny's at all fooled about their chances in the playoffs.  I think his hands may be tied now with the double shackles of his top asset being injured and his boss now shifting his fan-loyalty to a possible overvaluing of that asset (Rondo) once he's fit for trading again.

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Welcome to CelticsBlog