Author Topic: Who believes this Danny statement?  (Read 1992 times)

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Who believes this Danny statement?
« on: February 08, 2013, 05:07:54 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Yes, another Rondo thread  ;D , but I find the following intriguing.

Jackie Mac wrote a story about how Danny views the post-Rondo Cs. Here's an excerpt, ending with a key statement from Danny:

Quote
The ball movement has been superb and transition opportunities have been more plentiful.

And, yet, conventional wisdom persists. The Boston Celtics can't possibly be better off without their All-Star point guard.

Right?

Let Celtics boss Danny Ainge take it from here.

"We are different without him,'' Ainge explained. "We're running better now because five guys are running. Honestly, I think we rely on Rondo too much.

"For example, with Rondo out you see Jeff Green grab a rebound and push it up the court himself. If he gets a rebound when Rondo is playing, he just gives it to him.

"That's not Rondo's fault. It's only because he's a great player and guys see him in that role."

I have to say that I'm skeptical about this. I'm sure that all the other Celtics know that Rondo's good, and should have the ball a good chunk of the time, but are they really "voluntarily" giving the ball on nearly every possession, including in transition opportunities? Or is it, as I suspect, because of a directive from Doc that Rondo must always have the ball? If any non-Rondo Celtic gets a rebound and is able to bust it down the court, or at least outlet the ball to a capable ball-handler who's further up the court, why hadn't they been doing that? Why would players halt fast-break opportunities and look all around the court for Rondo, giving the ball to no one but him (and occasionally Pierce)? Is this they're choice?

Or is it because Doc told them to do it?

Here's Danny's solution, per Jackie:

Quote
So how can Rondo rectify that when he returns next season?

"So, when Jeff Green gets the rebound,'' Ainge replied, "Rondo has to take off down the court in that situation. Then Jeff can take two dribbles and hit Rondo. Now you see Rondo attack the basket in the open court. He is unguardable in those situations.''

Sounds great, but will this really happen? Hasn't happened much before now, and to make such a change requires a change in Doc's coaching philosophy re: Rondo.

So, if and when Rondo returns to the Cs, will Doc let other guys push the ball upcourt instead of making them automatically give it to Rondo?
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis


Re: Who believes this Danny statement?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2013, 05:30:13 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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I believe it...I think the franchise from the top on down was overly sold on it being rondos team now from what happened in the playoffs etc...and it led to being overly reliant on him... This team gelled differently then they expected and teams in the past.

Re: Who believes this Danny statement?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2013, 05:38:36 PM »

Offline timobusa

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Rondo was playing like that in 2010 and years prior to that.
Always pushing the ball, making the go ahead pass, and running the break.

Late 2011 early 2012 is when we saw Rondo commanding the ball more. I think it's partly because he is great on the open court and partly because Doc wants him to have the ball 95% of the time.

Just like with everything there's pros and cons.
I think Rondo can revert to that kind of play when he gets back.

Re: Who believes this Danny statement?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2013, 05:56:01 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  KG agrees with Danny. Er, sort of, in a KG way...

  "Well, the only way I can really explain it is when you see that Rondo does so many different great things for this team and you kind of get lackadaisical, if you will. It's very similar to if you have someone cooking for you and you're expecting it every day. All of a sudden someone's not there for you to do that, and now it's up to you to feed yourself. Then all of a sudden you start making these gourmet dishes and have more people over to the house, more people eating. You never know you possessed that unless you lost that person who was cooking. So it's kind of like that, you know what I mean?"

Re: Who believes this Danny statement?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2013, 05:58:52 PM »

Offline dreamgreen

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I would assume the coach makes those decisions, so I look at Doc.

Re: Who believes this Danny statement?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2013, 06:13:32 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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  KG agrees with Danny. Er, sort of, in a KG way...

  "Well, the only way I can really explain it is when you see that Rondo does so many different great things for this team and you kind of get lackadaisical, if you will. It's very similar to if you have someone cooking for you and you're expecting it every day. All of a sudden someone's not there for you to do that, and now it's up to you to feed yourself. Then all of a sudden you start making these gourmet dishes and have more people over to the house, more people eating. You never know you possessed that unless you lost that person who was cooking. So it's kind of like that, you know what I mean?"
So what I think KG is saying is "that since the cook is gonna come back but me and the boys been cooking like mad and doing some of the stuff that the cook did because the cook is just a nice person the cook should still cook but won't have to cook as much because me and the boys know we can cook and will keep cooking. So overall we all chefs."

That's what KG means....right?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 06:25:43 PM by nickagneta »
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Re: Who believes this Danny statement?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2013, 06:19:17 PM »

Offline LB3533

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No, no, no, no, no.

It is absolutely Jeff Green and Doc Rivers's fault if we are trotting it up the floor "behind" Rondo.

We can ABSOLUTELY choose to run off the miss after outletting the ball to Rondo.

Jeff Green doesn't have to choose to accept his "corner" assignment in every half court set.

Bust your butt down the floor and you'll get the ball.

Re: Who believes this Danny statement?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2013, 06:20:56 PM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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Yes, another Rondo thread  ;D , but I find the following intriguing.

Jackie Mac wrote a story about how Danny views the post-Rondo Cs. Here's an excerpt, ending with a key statement from Danny:

Quote
The ball movement has been superb and transition opportunities have been more plentiful.

And, yet, conventional wisdom persists. The Boston Celtics can't possibly be better off without their All-Star point guard.

Right?

Let Celtics boss Danny Ainge take it from here.

"We are different without him,'' Ainge explained. "We're running better now because five guys are running. Honestly, I think we rely on Rondo too much.

"For example, with Rondo out you see Jeff Green grab a rebound and push it up the court himself. If he gets a rebound when Rondo is playing, he just gives it to him.

"That's not Rondo's fault. It's only because he's a great player and guys see him in that role."

I have to say that I'm skeptical about this. I'm sure that all the other Celtics know that Rondo's good, and should have the ball a good chunk of the time, but are they really "voluntarily" giving the ball on nearly every possession, including in transition opportunities? Or is it, as I suspect, because of a directive from Doc that Rondo must always have the ball? If any non-Rondo Celtic gets a rebound and is able to bust it down the court, or at least outlet the ball to a capable ball-handler who's further up the court, why hadn't they been doing that? Why would players halt fast-break opportunities and look all around the court for Rondo, giving the ball to no one but him (and occasionally Pierce)? Is this they're choice?

Or is it because Doc told them to do it?

Here's Danny's solution, per Jackie:

Quote
So how can Rondo rectify that when he returns next season?

"So, when Jeff Green gets the rebound,'' Ainge replied, "Rondo has to take off down the court in that situation. Then Jeff can take two dribbles and hit Rondo. Now you see Rondo attack the basket in the open court. He is unguardable in those situations.''

Sounds great, but will this really happen? Hasn't happened much before now, and to make such a change requires a change in Doc's coaching philosophy re: Rondo.

So, if and when Rondo returns to the Cs, will Doc let other guys push the ball upcourt instead of making them automatically give it to Rondo?

 when he comes back if he does not want to share then trade him. i think he may be gone anyway.

Re: Who believes this Danny statement?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2013, 06:36:01 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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Rondo is an elite point. Guys are going to defer to him and that is what this team was whenever a rebound was corralled - you can hear Rondo yelling for the ball.

That second or two gives the opposing Defense time to get set.

I absolutely believe what Danny is saying. I think Doc has to tell the team to play that way.

I also agree with Ainge that if Rondo gets the ball on the run at half court he is unstoppable.

Ainge is referencing the 80's Celtics as well. They didn't have a dominant point (from a play making sense, if Ainge, or Bird or DJ got the ball they just went and everyone started running.

That model is possible with Rondo as well.

Just because it's possible though, doesn't mean Rondo won't get traded - that remains to be seen.   
 

Re: Who believes this Danny statement?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2013, 07:08:13 PM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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Celtics certainly play better team ball when they share the ball

Rondo be a poor shooter dominates the ball way too much.....

I the team has leaned on him too,much , they really discover they can walk on their own....or play better type of ball without Rondo.

Can Rondomlearn to,make foul shots?   Rondo is too predictable running the offense and teams k ow what he is gonna do. Walk the ball down court, stand around and telegraph the passes.  put the whole world to,sleep.

I don' t think he' ll change....best trade him

Re: Who believes this Danny statement?
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2013, 07:58:32 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Celtics certainly play better team ball when they share the ball

Rondo be a poor shooter dominates the ball way too much.....

I the team has leaned on him too,much , they really discover they can walk on their own....or play better type of ball without Rondo.

Can Rondomlearn to,make foul shots?   Rondo is too predictable running the offense and teams k ow what he is gonna do. Walk the ball down court, stand around and telegraph the passes.  put the whole world to,sleep.

I don' t think he' ll change....best trade him

  We're normally a very efficient shooting team when Rondo's running the offense. There's obviously a lot that goes on that you're missing.

Re: Who believes this Danny statement?
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2013, 08:25:09 PM »

Offline manl_lui

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I mean, he's calling it like it is...

he's basically saying we're playing very good basketball without Rondo, but we still need him

so when he comes back, to become a bigger threat, Rondo should adapt to everyone's style of play and not just the players adapting to Rondo

plain and simple, and I think he's right

Re: Who believes this Danny statement?
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2013, 11:49:11 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Celtics certainly play better team ball when they share the ball

Rondo be a poor shooter dominates the ball way too much.....

I the team has leaned on him too,much , they really discover they can walk on their own....or play better type of ball without Rondo.

Can Rondomlearn to,make foul shots?   Rondo is too predictable running the offense and teams k ow what he is gonna do. Walk the ball down court, stand around and telegraph the passes.  put the whole world to,sleep.

I don' t think he' ll change....best trade him

  We're normally a very efficient shooting team when Rondo's running the offense. There's obviously a lot that goes on that you're missing.

This is quite true, yet I also think (though I could be wrong) that the offense with Rondo is ... I'm not quite sure of the right word here ... constricted? stifled? Like, they're efficient (good FG%), yes, but often take a low number of shots, and are pathological offensively—that is, they have one way of operating on offense (a way that doesn't even involve many options or variations), and they stick with it no matter how badly they're playing. No adjustments, no "plan B."
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis


Re: Who believes this Danny statement?
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2013, 12:08:06 AM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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think the cat is out of the bag on  Rondo.     

Just because your teammates throw you the ball every time , doesn't mean you stand there dribbling waiting for a play to develop ,  move the ball, shoot it, but don't stand there waiting for freakin Xmas to come looking lost?   

part of Rondo overall issue ,is he still isn't respected for a jump shot,   the floor spacing is all screwed up ,  Rondo is far too predictable

Rondo needs to look for ways to help his team core, not just assists.........he needs huge work on free throws...Fab Melo is a better free throw shooter than Rondo, a point guard that can' t be counted on for last minute free throw is about useless .

Rondo has a lot of work o do, ,  he nees to stay  in the gym and really learn shoot...........until he becomes a serious outside jump shooter  his career may decline........

DA.    ..... my be forced to trade him, if he doesn't learn to play team ball.

Re: Who believes this Danny statement?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2013, 12:39:46 AM »

Offline Galeto

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This practice of outletting every single dang ball to Rondo so that not even Pierce and Ray could bring the ball up started midway through 2010.  I think it was a game against Milwaukee although I'm not sure.  I remember it because it was a change from how they'd been playing before and also since no other team operates like that, it stuck out.

I think Rondo hadn't been as aggressive in the previous games like as Doc wanted and this was a way to get him more inspired.  It was like he was trying to will Rondo to play harder or better by giving him a huge workload.  I think it turned out to be one of the worst decisions of Doc's coaching tenure because it morphed into something out of control.

In the 2008 games I re-watched, multiple guys brought it up.  If Ray got a rebound, Rondo headed up court and let Ray dribble it up.  The same with Pierce. It's how every team does it.  It's a quick and easy way to distribute touches and attack from different points. 

 

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