Author Topic: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?  (Read 12771 times)

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Offline Smitty77

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #150 on: February 24, 2013, 08:42:04 PM »
Boris,

I don't think it is fair to mention that Kristic only played 26 games in the NBA after the trade.  He CHOSE to take a nice offer overseas if memory serves me correctly.  I am old, so I might not be remembering correctly tho:-))

Smitty77

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #151 on: February 24, 2013, 08:42:55 PM »
Boris,

I don't think it is fair to mention that Kristic only played 26 games in the NBA after the trade.  He CHOSE to take a nice offer overseas if memory serves me correctly.  I am old, so I might not be remembering correctly tho:-))

Smitty77

Yeah he didn't want to sit around for the lockout.

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Offline vjcsmoke

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #152 on: February 24, 2013, 08:59:18 PM »
Jeff Green is more talented than Perkins.  But if he had stayed, we had a chance of winning the championship that year.  Ainge gambled that Shaq or O'Neal would stay healthy and it didn't happen. That cost us a title shot.  So you've got to ask yourself if losing a legit chance at the title is worth acquiring Jeff Green for the future.

Offline Boris Badenov

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #153 on: February 24, 2013, 10:26:28 PM »
Boris,

I don't think it is fair to mention that Kristic only played 26 games in the NBA after the trade.  He CHOSE to take a nice offer overseas if memory serves me correctly.  I am old, so I might not be remembering correctly tho:-))

Smitty77

I guess the question is whether Presti or even Ainge knew that Krstic had a real chance of choosing to go home. That might explain why he was included in the trade. We'll never know.

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #154 on: February 24, 2013, 10:32:38 PM »
Boris,

I don't think it is fair to mention that Kristic only played 26 games in the NBA after the trade.  He CHOSE to take a nice offer overseas if memory serves me correctly.  I am old, so I might not be remembering correctly tho:-))

Smitty77

I guess the question is whether Presti or even Ainge knew that Krstic had a real chance of choosing to go home. That might explain why he was included in the trade. We'll never know.

I think Presti didn't care all that much; he knew Krstic isn't the type of center you can build around or commit too long-term.

As for Danny, he knew Krstic was a free agent, and should have anticipated that him leaving was a possibility.  I'm sure it was a consideration.

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Offline Cman

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #155 on: February 24, 2013, 10:39:40 PM »
Jeff Green is more talented than Perkins.  But if he had stayed, we had a chance of winning the championship that year.  Ainge gambled that Shaq or O'Neal would stay healthy and it didn't happen. That cost us a title shot.  So you've got to ask yourself if losing a legit chance at the title is worth acquiring Jeff Green for the future.

Meh, we also didn't know about Perkins' health. He, like Shaq and JO was a pretty big question mark. Turns out he was okay, turns out the trade probably worked against the Cs short term, but perhaps for the Cs long term. I don't really care anymore.

The bigger question, IMHO, is why these threads keep popping up.
An even bigger question is why I read them.
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Online saltlover

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #156 on: February 24, 2013, 11:43:20 PM »
Jeff Green is more talented than Perkins.  But if he had stayed, we had a chance of winning the championship that year.  Ainge gambled that Shaq or O'Neal would stay healthy and it didn't happen. That cost us a title shot.  So you've got to ask yourself if losing a legit chance at the title is worth acquiring Jeff Green for the future.

Rondo's elbow getting knocked out of its socket by wade cost us an opportunity for a championship, not whatever difference existed between Perkins and Green.  We blew the Knicks off the court in the first round of the playoffs that year.  But no Rondo, or a very limited Rondo, decided the Miami series, and the playoffs.  That trade simply did not cost us a championship.

Offline Induna

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #157 on: February 25, 2013, 12:55:53 AM »
Anyone who thinks Perkins for Green is not a steal has very little understanding of basketball.

Anyone who thinks this is a persuasive argument has very little understanding of how to present their ideas logically.

do tell how does one present one's ideas (or perhaps argument) Logically and while you doing that it would be good if you explained how the logical presentation of an idea is diminished by my presentation. You may disagree and that's cool but logical presentation?? that makes no sense at all.

A logical argument involves rationally explaining one's point of view and showing why it makes sense, rather than saying (essentially) "My opinion is obviously right, and anybody who doesn't agree is an idiot".

Literally hundreds of posters on this blog have disagreed with your assessment of the trade.  To suggest that they don't understand basketball not only is against our rules, but it shows how close-minded your own view of basketball is.

The fact that I expressed an opinion doe not make the argument or the point being argued any less logical controversial... maybe, opinionated... sure perhaps even disrespectful. I do suggest that in the case of the Perkins Green trade thinking Perkins is better than Green demonstrates a lack of understanding of basketball. I am sure we can agree to disagree.

Offline BballTim

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #158 on: March 08, 2013, 10:32:57 AM »
Perk is garbage.

Garbage that ranks 26th in the entire league in opponents' points allowed per possession.

26th isn't that great for a center that is meant to be a defensive specialist.

How about the net points for versus points against for his position?

As BBTim said, 26th in the NBA is very good.  It's especially good for a big man, as players who play close to the basket are by their nature going to give up shots that are usually higher percentage looks.  Perk has held opponents to something like 36% shooting.  How can you look at that as a bad thing?

Perk is in the top 6% of all defensive players in the league.  That's pretty dang good.  In practice, Perk's stalwart defense has allowed Ibaka to roam, maximizing OKC's defensive potential.  There's a ton of value in that.

  While I realize that people are tired of the Perk/Green talk, one of the articles from the Sloan conference (that I haven't read too much of yet) was about interior defense:

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/The%20Dwight%20Effect%20A%20New%20Ensemble%20of%20Interior%20Defense%20Analytics%20for%20the%20NBA.pdf

  According to their analysis (which, again, I haven't fully read yet) they have Perk rated as the 3rd best interior defender in the league.

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #159 on: March 08, 2013, 10:50:07 AM »
Jeff Green is more talented than Perkins.  But if he had stayed, we had a chance of winning the championship that year.  Ainge gambled that Shaq or O'Neal would stay healthy and it didn't happen. That cost us a title shot.  So you've got to ask yourself if losing a legit chance at the title is worth acquiring Jeff Green for the future.

Rondo's elbow getting knocked out of its socket by wade cost us an opportunity for a championship, not whatever difference existed between Perkins and Green.  We blew the Knicks off the court in the first round of the playoffs that year.  But no Rondo, or a very limited Rondo, decided the Miami series, and the playoffs.  That trade simply did not cost us a championship.

Nah, we were already down 0-2 before that rondo injury and I'm pretty confident we lose that series even if rondo stayed healthy. If you're saying that injury squashed whatever little hope we had then yeah I guess I agree.

Offline CelticsFan9

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #160 on: March 08, 2013, 10:53:36 AM »
Jeff Green is more talented than Perkins.  But if he had stayed, we had a chance of winning the championship that year.  Ainge gambled that Shaq or O'Neal would stay healthy and it didn't happen. That cost us a title shot.  So you've got to ask yourself if losing a legit chance at the title is worth acquiring Jeff Green for the future.

Rondo's elbow getting knocked out of its socket by wade cost us an opportunity for a championship, not whatever difference existed between Perkins and Green.  We blew the Knicks off the court in the first round of the playoffs that year.  But no Rondo, or a very limited Rondo, decided the Miami series, and the playoffs.  That trade simply did not cost us a championship.

Nah, we were already down 0-2 before that rondo injury and I'm pretty confident we lose that series even if rondo stayed healthy. If you're saying that injury squashed whatever little hope we had then yeah I guess I agree.

Even though we lost that series in 5, every game was tightly contested.  I think we would've pulled it out if Rondo had been healthy.

Offline clover

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #161 on: March 08, 2013, 11:15:41 AM »
Perk is garbage.

Garbage that ranks 26th in the entire league in opponents' points allowed per possession.

26th isn't that great for a center that is meant to be a defensive specialist.

How about the net points for versus points against for his position?

As BBTim said, 26th in the NBA is very good.  It's especially good for a big man, as players who play close to the basket are by their nature going to give up shots that are usually higher percentage looks.  Perk has held opponents to something like 36% shooting.  How can you look at that as a bad thing?

Perk is in the top 6% of all defensive players in the league.  That's pretty dang good.  In practice, Perk's stalwart defense has allowed Ibaka to roam, maximizing OKC's defensive potential.  There's a ton of value in that.

  While I realize that people are tired of the Perk/Green talk, one of the articles from the Sloan conference (that I haven't read too much of yet) was about interior defense:

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/The%20Dwight%20Effect%20A%20New%20Ensemble%20of%20Interior%20Defense%20Analytics%20for%20the%20NBA.pdf

  According to their analysis (which, again, I haven't fully read yet) they have Perk rated as the 3rd best interior defender in the league.

A ranking in which Perk comes in behind #2, Bargnani.  Food for thought.

Offline LB3533

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #162 on: March 08, 2013, 11:16:48 AM »

No. The pick was used on Melo. Sully would've still been on the board for our pick.

It's tough to say, I do think you may be right, but had we not had that 2nd pick do our motivations or strategies change?

If we only had one pick, would we have taken the risk on Sully or followed much like every other team and passed on him?

Maybe, had we only the 1 pick we would have drafted Melo with it over Sullinger.

Who really knows?


Online LooseCannon

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #163 on: March 08, 2013, 11:24:34 AM »
If Ainge could have traded Perk for Green in the off-season instead of waiting until Perkins was healthy, perhaps Green would have gotten up to speed by the end of the season to where he is now and replaced Glen Davis in the crunch time lineup.  Where would the Celtics be then?
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Offline CelticConcourse

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #164 on: March 08, 2013, 11:25:22 AM »

No. The pick was used on Melo. Sully would've still been on the board for our pick.

It's tough to say, I do think you may be right, but had we not had that 2nd pick do our motivations or strategies change?

If we only had one pick, would we have taken the risk on Sully or followed much like every other team and passed on him?

Maybe, had we only the 1 pick we would have drafted Melo with it over Sullinger.

Who really knows?

It's too tough to say. Our two picks strongly influenced who we picked.
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