Author Topic: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?  (Read 12831 times)

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Offline ssspence

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #90 on: February 09, 2013, 12:48:33 PM »
I asked this before in this post, but can someone confirm the following:

Didn't we get Jeff Green and Jared Sullinger (Clipper's 1st round pick) out of that trade?

If so, can we put the actual return to the Celtics by trading Kendrick Perkins as Jeff Green and Jared Sullinger?

I loved Perkins, but I don't think he guaranteed us anything as far as championships go. For all we know he could have re-injured his knee in round two fo the playoffs that year, just like Shaq got injured and Rondo got injured. Incredibly bad luck with injuries at the wrong time to key players is the main reason this team built around KG and Pierce hasn't rasied 2-3 banners instead of one and that isn't only because of Perkins  being traded.

Looking forward, I would much rather have a tandem of Green and Sullinger than I would Kendrick Perkins.

* Perkins was one of my all time favorite Celtics.

They actually took Fab Melo with that pick. And as another poster pointed out, they got Charlotte's 2nd this year from OKC as compensation for a lack of disclosure on Green's medical condition, though obviously they didn't know they'd be receiving that at the time. That pick was used to get Courtney Lee from the Rockets.

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #91 on: February 09, 2013, 12:49:58 PM »
Someone said that after the trade, we won 5 straight, then Shaq got hurt or we found out how much he was hurt.  How does anyone know that it wasn't that which hurt team spirit?

Shaq got hurt about 3 weeks prior to the trade deadline.  Danny definitely underestimated the injury, although Shaq has indicated that Danny knew at the time that he might not be able to come back.
OK, that sets the time line more accurately but the question is still how do you know it was the trade that affected team chemistry and not the Shaq injury revealing itself as being worse than originally thought?

Reports at the time were that the team was "livid" and devastated by the deal.  The true extent of Shaq's injury -- that he'd be out for the season -- wasn't discovered until much later.  Indeed, the team still had Shaq trying to comeback in the playoffs, although he wasn't healthy enough to do so.

Didn't we later learn that the Big 3, or at least Pierce and Garnett were consulted on this possible trade and both signed-on or something?

The only real affect I recall was with Rondo, people might be "livid" at the time, but we looked good playing together.

Offline Roy H.

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #92 on: February 09, 2013, 12:50:25 PM »
But realistically...what's Perk doing over in OKC? 4 points and 6 rebounds?

... and anchoring the defense of a team that reached the Finals last year, and has the second best record in the NBA.

Perk's presence is about a lot more than points scored and rebounds collected.

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Offline Roy H.

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #93 on: February 09, 2013, 12:52:13 PM »
The only real affect I recall was with Rondo, people might be "livid" at the time, but we looked good playing together.

We didn't look that good.  We finished out the year 15-12, which was pretty poor.  We played below .500 for the last quarter of the season.

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Offline kgainez

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #94 on: February 09, 2013, 12:53:19 PM »
But realistically...what's Perk doing over in OKC? 4 points and 6 rebounds?

... and anchoring the defense of a team that reached the Finals last year, and has the second best record in the NBA.

Perk's presence is about a lot more than points scored and rebounds collected.

arguable
did he get a ring, or nah?

Offline ScoobyDoo

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #95 on: February 09, 2013, 12:58:06 PM »
Ok, so:

Jeff Green: Who appears capable of being a 12-15 point scorer with 4-6 boards a game and a very strong defender at the 2,3 and 4 spots - and who can also play some PF - for the next ten years.

Fab Melo: Perhpas can be as good as Perkins in 2-3 years and then we'd have for another 10 seasons

Courtney Lee: Who we were able to get, in part, because of the Perkins Trade.

I am Ok with that as a return for Perkins, who is now close to a 10 year veteran.

Again, I'm not sure we win the ring that year even with Perk - we haven't raised more then 1 ring in the KG era mostly because of of a series of bad luck with key injuries to key players - not the Perk trade.     

Offline Roy H.

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #96 on: February 09, 2013, 01:01:18 PM »
But realistically...what's Perk doing over in OKC? 4 points and 6 rebounds?

... and anchoring the defense of a team that reached the Finals last year, and has the second best record in the NBA.

Perk's presence is about a lot more than points scored and rebounds collected.

arguable
did he get a ring, or nah?

He's gotten a lot closer than Jeff Green has, and realistically, he's probably going to get closer than Green this year, too.

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Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #97 on: February 09, 2013, 01:05:43 PM »
The only real affect I recall was with Rondo, people might be "livid" at the time, but we looked good playing together.

We didn't look that good.  We finished out the year 15-12, which was pretty poor.  We played below .500 for the last quarter of the season.

Oh, we looked good with the newly acquired players... we just had some other roster problems that contributed to our struggle.

First, Krstic, KG, and Troy Murphy (who hadn't played all year until that point pretty much) were the only healthy bigs we had in some of our losses.

2 later loses with Pierce playing poorly, and Rondo playing some of the worst basketball of his life (which I've already attributed Rondo as being affected by the trade the most).

Then a game were we played late in the year without Rondo, Pierce, and Allen.

But in all, the consistent in all those games lost are poor games by Rondo, but we had other problems going for us that year other than getting Krstic and Green for Perk.

I thought Krstic assimilated with our team very well right off the bat, Green was a more work in progress.

Offline celts10

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #98 on: February 09, 2013, 01:26:35 PM »
I can, but a lot of people attached to Perk won't.

Offline Vermont Green

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #99 on: February 09, 2013, 01:33:19 PM »
Someone said that after the trade, we won 5 straight, then Shaq got hurt or we found out how much he was hurt.  How does anyone know that it wasn't that which hurt team spirit?

Shaq got hurt about 3 weeks prior to the trade deadline.  Danny definitely underestimated the injury, although Shaq has indicated that Danny knew at the time that he might not be able to come back.
OK, that sets the time line more accurately but the question is still how do you know it was the trade that affected team chemistry and not the Shaq injury revealing itself as being worse than originally thought?

So what is the lesson learned here.  Don't make a trade if someone on the team may not like it?

I think most people at this point recognize that the trade was good when you consider value in vs. value out.  So does a GM not make the trade based on value because a mercurial PG may not like it?

Maybe Danny could have handled the communication of the trade better, I don't know but if there is a player who stops playing becasue his friend is traded, that shouldn't affect the GM's decision to make a trade.  That is a problem with the player, not the GM.

Offline CelticConcourse

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #100 on: February 09, 2013, 01:34:53 PM »
I can, because he got us Jeffrey Lynn Green!
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

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Offline tonyto3690

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #101 on: February 24, 2013, 11:32:52 AM »
But realistically...what's Perk doing over in OKC? 4 points and 6 rebounds?

... and anchoring the defense of a team that reached the Finals last year, and has the second best record in the NBA.

Perk's presence is about a lot more than points scored and rebounds collected.
That defense sure looks a whole lot of mediocre a lot of the time.

I haven't honestly watched them enough to say, but every time I talk to a Thunder fan all they want is to amnesty Perkins and start Ibaka over him.  Lets not be foolhardy and try to act like Perkins is some juggernaut defensive player who has a massive impact on the game.

He's a player who does the dirty work and works hard, but has Bynum calibre knee issues with a very low ceiling, is hugely overpaid, and has a minimal positive effect (Thunder fans even claim negative) on a team that wants to run.

Offline Roy H.

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #102 on: February 24, 2013, 11:44:37 AM »
... every time I talk to a Thunder fan all they want is to amnesty Perkins and start Ibaka over him. 

Those Thunder fans must not be particularly savvy, then.

Slotting Perk at center allowed the Thunder to start Ibaka at PF, and to allow him to roam on defense.  Moving Ibaka over to center would minimize his talent, and would continuously put him against larger big men, rather than allowing him to maximize his defensive talent.

The Thunder defense is ranked 8th in the NBA.  Perk's presence is a big part of that.  He ranks 26th in the entire NBA in points allowed per possession, allowing only 36.4% shooting to his opponents overall.

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Offline tonyto3690

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #103 on: February 24, 2013, 11:52:51 AM »
... every time I talk to a Thunder fan all they want is to amnesty Perkins and start Ibaka over him. 

Those Thunder fans must not be particularly savvy, then.

Slotting Perk at center allowed the Thunder to start Ibaka at PF, and to allow him to roam on defense.  Moving Ibaka over to center would minimize his talent, and would continuously put him against larger big men, rather than allowing him to maximize his defensive talent.

The Thunder defense is ranked 8th in the NBA.  Perk's presence is a big part of that.  He ranks 26th in the entire NBA in points allowed per possession, allowing only 36.4% shooting to his opponents overall.

Fair enough, though I didn' say they were particularly smart.  TP.

Either way, Perkins knees are a ticking timebomb that arguably have already gone off and he is going to only continue to decline.  Green is only going to improve and Green is already arguably better, and obviously younger.

Offline CoachBo

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #104 on: February 24, 2013, 11:53:45 AM »
I always have.

Perkins is consistently overrated on this board.

 

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