Author Topic: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?  (Read 14034 times)

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2013, 09:43:09 PM »

Offline tonyto3690

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Perk played exactly 12 games before being traded and scored 82 points for the Celtics that season.  I think it is a severe stretch to say that it is clear or obvious that he was going to carry us to a championship.

We played great the whole time he was injured.  We played great because of Shaq.  Shaq got hurt and Perk got traded about the same time.  We received great value for Perk.  He barely did anything for OK after being traded.  How is it that he was going to carry us to a championship?

I just don't get it.
Here's the thing
No one said perk would have carried us to a championship...but if you couldn't see that it ruined that teams spirit dramatically then I'm not sure what you were watching...

Remember when we started the season hot and were blowing out playoff teams with Shaq starting?

How many minutes was Perkins playing then?

Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2013, 09:47:52 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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The only spirit that was ruined was the bizarre fan attachment to Perkins.

Green has finally gotten going, so that deal has progressed from a trade that helped neither team to Danny Ainge has Sam Presti's wallet.

Again.

Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2013, 10:06:10 PM »

Offline LB3533

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The only spirit that was ruined was the bizarre fan attachment to Perkins.

Green has finally gotten going, so that deal has progressed from a trade that helped neither team to Danny Ainge has Sam Presti's wallet.

Again.

Agreed.

5 game winning streak immediately following the trade.

What broken spirit?

Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2013, 10:41:41 PM »

Offline jdz101

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Nope.


Ainge still traded away someone who should have been the starting C of the playoff team that season for a back up SF who is still the backup SF. 



The Celtics have been playing undersized ever since.  Even if the Celtics move Perk that offseason, a backup SF is still a terrible return.

In no way should Perkins be a starting center for anyone. The thunder continuing to start him despite his pathetic all round play baffles me. He has no passing game out of the horns set (which is the only play they actually let him touch the ball), he has no shooting, cannot finish around the rim, can't defend anyone except for centers that are slower or more inept offensively than he is, and he is literally a snail on the court. He was not the difference for the thunder and he sure as heck wouldn't have been for us.

Jeff green IS good enough to start for a lot of teams. He is backing up one of the all time greats though.


Perk starts because they have been a better team since the trade.


Green is good enough to start on another team.  But the Celtics did not need a starting SF off the bench.  They needed a solid player to play 15 minutes a night to give Pierce a break.

Perk being there does not necessarily make him the reason for their success.

The emergence of ibaka, and the improvement/increased experience of their two stars are the best two indicators for their improvement. Indicators that are actually backed up by statistical evidence. Not scowls.

Perkins' numbers

Net Points per 100 Possessions
+8.9 On court
+10.0 Off court
-1.1

They are 1.1 points better off when he's not on the court.

Green's Numbers
 
Net Points per 100 Possessions
-2.0 On court
-1.7 Off court
-0.3

Almost zero drop off when green comes on with the bench. Whereas perkins is a net negative as a starter, playing with Oklahoma's best players.

Let's look into opponent production vs own production for both players.

Perkins' numbers

9.0        Own production average per 48
17.8      Opponent production average per 48
-8.9      Net production per 48

Not stopping many people defensively it seems.

Green's Numbers

11.8      Own production average per 48
11.3      Opponent production average per 48
+0.5      Net production per 48

Not amazing by any standards but at least green is in the positive.


         


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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2013, 10:59:28 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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No, we can't - not even close.

with Perk, the Celtics were leading the East with an excellent shot at the title in 2011 - this team, as much fun as they have been, isn't close to that team's level.

please don't play out the argument that, well, Rondo's injury in the 2011 playoffs vs Miami would have negated our title shot that year. we keep Perk and we probably have home court throughout the playoffs that season (unless the Spurs make the Finals) and we never would have seen Miami until the East finals.

and please save the argument about Perk's stats - his value, especially to this group of Celtics, goes way beyond the boxscore.

finally, may i remind you - Danny Boy has been looking for a solid center ever since he gave Perk away. that trade was an Ainge ego trip and he is still trying to justify it.

wouldn't you rather be sitting here tonight with another banner already in the rafters watching Danny trying to sustain an aging team than enjoying Jeff Green's improved play of late, which i suppose is the point of this thread ?

Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2013, 11:06:35 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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No, we can't - not even close.

with Perk, the Celtics were leading the East with an excellent shot at the title in 2011 - this team, as much fun as they have been, isn't close to that team's level.

please don't play out the argument that, well, Rondo's injury in the 2011 playoffs vs Miami would have negated our title shot that year. we keep Perk and we probably have home court throughout the playoffs that season (unless the Spurs make the Finals) and we never would have seen Miami until the East finals.

and please save the argument about Perk's stats - his value, especially to this group of Celtics, goes way beyond the boxscore.

finally, may i remind you - Danny Boy has been looking for a solid center ever since he gave Perk away. that trade was an Ainge ego trip and he is still trying to justify it.

wouldn't you rather be sitting here tonight with another banner already in the rafters watching Danny trying to sustain an aging team than enjoying Jeff Green's improved play of late, which i suppose is the point of this thread ?

I actually would not.
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2013, 11:09:33 PM »

Offline gpap

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To the previous poster, well said.

To me, stats don't necessarily tell anything.

Perk and the Celtics were a perfect match.

When the Perk trade happened, KG/Paul/Ray/Rondo were affected in a very negative way.

Doc said it was like they lost a family member.

For those quick to criticize Perk for his play in OKC, well what did you expect? Perk fit well with this team, plain and simple

Perk hasn't been the same since the trade and neither have the Celtics.

You have to go beyond the stats sometimes for the whole story. I also truly believe Miami was absolutely ecstatic when we traded Perk. I think that was the one guy Lebron and Wade feared the most (other than maybe Tony Allen.)

Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2013, 11:12:26 PM »

Offline ssspence

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The reality: two very good NBA GMs got rid of players they didn't want to pay because they had doubts about their value vs. price tag. So far, neither player has panned out in either of those two categories  No one won, both teams lost.

But Perk should have been an asset of stronger value than a return of Jeff Green. So in that fact, I'd say it's still very low on Danny's track record.

Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #53 on: February 08, 2013, 11:12:48 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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To the previous poster, well said.

To me, stats don't necessarily tell anything.

Perk and the Celtics were a perfect match.

When the Perk trade happened, KG/Paul/Ray/Rondo were affected in a very negative way.

Doc said it was like they lost a family member.

For those quick to criticize Perk for his play in OKC, well what did you expect? Perk fit well with this team, plain and simple

Perk hasn't been the same since the trade and neither have the Celtics.

You have to go beyond the stats sometimes for the whole story. I also truly believe Miami was absolutely ecstatic when we traded Perk. I think that was the one guy Lebron and Wade feared the most (other than maybe Tony Allen.)

I didn't say that but ok.
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2013, 11:13:11 PM »

Offline thenotoriousjts

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That trade still hasn't paid off in any way. Aren't we 8th or something?
Can't we just bring Gerald Green back?

Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2013, 11:13:27 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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I never said the Celtics would win the title that year because of Perk.

But I do believe they would have had a better shot with a healthy starting center.



Running the Clippers with Redz.

Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2013, 11:15:06 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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That trade still hasn't paid off in any way. Aren't we 8th or something?

We didnt know he would nearly die.

We have three+ more years
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

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"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #57 on: February 08, 2013, 11:16:38 PM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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The reality: two very good NBA GMs got rid of players they didn't want to pay because they had doubts about their value vs. price tag. So far, neither player has panned out in either of those two categories  No one won, both teams lost.

But Perk should have been an asset of stronger value than a return of Jeff Green. So in that fact, I'd say it's still very low on Danny's track record.

Stronger value than Jeff Green? What? After he had come off an injury that has been quite evident to slow him down? Sorry, but I'm having a tough time believing that Perk would've had more trade value than what we got.

We also got a rotation center in that deal. A center that actually played quite well for us, but sadly also got injured as we were closing in for the playoffs.

Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2013, 11:45:10 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Perkins had 17 pts and 9 rebounds tonight. Jus sayin'.

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Re: Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?
« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2013, 11:54:50 PM »

Offline tonyto3690

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So the argument now...

"I COUNTER YOUR ARGUMENT BASED ON FACTS, STATISTICS AND COMMON SENSE WITH MY PERSONAL OPINION BASED ON NOTHING BUT HOW I THINK THE TEAM EMOTIONALLY FELT AND HOW GROWN MEN AND PAID PROFESSIONALS DECIDED TO PLAY LESS HARD BECAUSE THEIR BEST FRIEND PERKINS WASNT THERE."

 

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