Can we finally give credit to Ainge for the Perkins trade?

[Celtics4ever]

Not to mention he was and is badly damaged goods.

[soap07]

But realistically...what's Perk doing over in OKC? 4 points and 6 rebounds?

... and anchoring the defense of a team that reached the Finals last year, and has the second best record in the NBA.

Perk's presence is about a lot more than points scored and rebounds collected.

Good thing it is - because he's terrible at both.

The Thunder defense is ranked 8th in the NBA.  Perk's presence is a big part of that.  He ranks 26th in the entire NBA in points allowed per possession, allowing only 36.4% shooting to his opponents overall.

His presence is not a big part of that. He's a net negative on the court. He plays barely half the game. The team gives 104.8 per 100 with him off court, 103.3 with him on it. Which is fine, he has a negligible positive defensive impact - but the offense is equally as worse with him on the court. So he really, his impact is...barely anything.

Combine that with the fact that he's a 7 footer who can't rebound and is continuing to decline....etc etc...

[fairweatherfan]

If you assume KG was going to have to slide over to C to stay effective at this point in the career, Perk would be redundant by now anyway. 

Green and Lee definitely aren't (we gave up more for Lee but the pick was basically what the Rockets moved him for).  Melo's still a big TBD but it seems like we benefited from it.

[TripleOT]

It was a bad trade that might have cost the Cs a banner or two.  If Green actually plays to the level of his latest contract, I might feel differently, but him having a couple of good games in a row isn't going to convince me. 

Regarding those who continue to devalue Perk's contribution in OKC, I say - take a look at the won-loss records of OKC and Boston since the trade.  For whatever reasons, it resulted in a serious change in win/loss for both franchises. 

[soap07]

Regarding those who continue to devalue Perk's contribution in OKC, I say - take a look at the won-loss records of OKC and Boston since the trade.  For whatever reasons, it resulted in a serious change in win/loss for both franchises. 

Look at the won-loss record of Cleveland when LeBron went to the finals. Clearly, we should resign Sasha Pavlovic.

[tonyto3690]

It was a bad trade that might have cost the Cs a banner or two.  If Green actually plays to the level of his latest contract, I might feel differently, but him having a couple of good games in a row isn't going to convince me. 

Regarding those who continue to devalue Perk's contribution in OKC, I say - take a look at the won-loss records of OKC and Boston since the trade.  For whatever reasons, it resulted in a serious change in win/loss for both franchises.

-Durant becomes the second best player in the world
-Westbrook becomes a top 5 PG
-Harden becomes the leagues best sixth man
-Ibaka becomes one of the leagues best bigmen
-Pierce, KG, and Ray all exit their primes



No, you're right, it was all Perkins.   

Regarding those who continue to devalue Perk's contribution in OKC, I say - take a look at the won-loss records of OKC and Boston since the trade.  For whatever reasons, it resulted in a serious change in win/loss for both franchises. 

Look at the won-loss record of Cleveland when LeBron went to the finals. Clearly, we should resign Sasha Pavlovic.

I think you're talking Udonis Haslem.  Lebron James hasn't won a single title without him.

Maybe Danny can work out a deal package of KG, Rondo and Green for Haslem.  Man, wouldn't that be the biggest steal in NBA history?  We'd be giving up a mere three franchise players for Udonis "automatic banner" Haslem.

I mean what was Danny thinking trading Perkins (who has a ring) and completely shot knees for a young lotto pick athlete with massive upside who DOESNT HAVE A RING?!?


FIRE AINGE

[BballTim]

Someone said that after the trade, we won 5 straight, then Shaq got hurt or we found out how much he was hurt.  How does anyone know that it wasn't that which hurt team spirit?

Shaq got hurt about 3 weeks prior to the trade deadline.  Danny definitely underestimated the injury, although Shaq has indicated that Danny knew at the time that he might not be able to come back.

OK, that sets the time line more accurately but the question is still how do you know it was the trade that affected team chemistry and not the Shaq injury revealing itself as being worse than originally thought?

Reports at the time were that the team was "livid" and devastated by the deal.  The true extent of Shaq's injury -- that he'd be out for the season -- wasn't discovered until much later.  Indeed, the team still had Shaq trying to comeback in the playoffs, although he wasn't healthy enough to do so.

Didn't we later learn that the Big 3, or at least Pierce and Garnett were consulted on this possible trade and both signed-on or something?

The only real affect I recall was with Rondo, people might be "livid" at the time, but we looked good playing together.

  Rondo had a lot of health issues that year, starting with the plantar fascitis which bothered him all year. He also had some type of hand injury that affected his play. When he was playing well the team was one of the best in the league, when he wasn't the team was really struggling.

[Kane3387]

I don't think people in here watch okc much. Collison typically finishes games. Perk barely played in the finals against Miami.

Still all this talk about us "winning the title in 2010" is pure nonsense. Whether it was perk or green on the floor wade is still dislocating our PGs arm. Rondo with one arm isn't getting the celtics a title so please put that one to rest.

Also as for a TE. Those normally don't work out and rarely if ever bring back a quality player. Utah with big al and la with nash are the only two that come to mind. David west signed for ten mill. Much more then perks starting Salary. Also a S and T would still have to take place requiring a three year deal. West wanted two years.

[tyrone biggums]

It was a bad trade that might have cost the Cs a banner or two.  If Green actually plays to the level of his latest contract, I might feel differently, but him having a couple of good games in a row isn't going to convince me. 

Regarding those who continue to devalue Perk's contribution in OKC, I say - take a look at the won-loss records of OKC and Boston since the trade.  For whatever reasons, it resulted in a serious change in win/loss for both franchises.

Nothing is guaranteed, Perkins was missed for most of that year and the Celtics were still killing it with Shaq and JO at the 5. However, by saying that you were against this trade you are automatically against trading Pierce and KG for something. The reason why Perk was traded is because he wanted to get paid like an upper tier center and Ainge wanted to get an asset for him before he went to free agency. They wanted to get a young asset instead of letting Perk walk. Not to mention that if Melo even becomes a remotely solid contributor in 2 years that deal will look terrible for OKC. Perkins has one of the worst contracts in the NBA...Ainge was right to make the move.

[kgainez]

i hate the argument that we would've won if we didn't trade perk
lol
what?
how do you guys know that?

also...I think we're going to need a scorer on this team in the future. the future of centers and PFs in the nba is dramatically changing...more jump shooters, not a ton of posting and with the future of nba, it's not a lot of contact. let's be honest. we're breeding a bunch of softies.

JG for PP is going to be worth it. If we can develop Fab, keep the DJ White fella and get him to the right pieces ALONG with Sully, I still don't hate our team.

[CelticsFan9]

I'm loving Green right now, but I feel like if we kept Perk that year, we would've had a much better shot at winning the title.  Pierce and Ray were having superb shooting years, Rondo kept improving, and KG was beginning to fully recover from the knee surgery.  Perk, while a shell of himself, was still an effective defender, and he was definitely better than an injured Shaq, a hobbled Jermaine, and Kristic.

Plus, IIRC, we were going to sign Dahntay Jones to back up Pierce after Quisy went down.  He would've been a decent backup, bringing good defense and sold shooting.

If we could've found a way to trade Perk that offseason, I would've been happy, because we might've had an eighteenth banner by then.

Again, I'm loving Green's play right now, though.

[Surferdad]

I'm loving Green right now, but I feel like if we kept Perk that year, we would've had a much better shot at winning the title.  Pierce and Ray were having superb shooting years, Rondo kept improving, and KG was beginning to fully recover from the knee surgery.  Perk, while a shell of himself, was still an effective defender, and he was definitely better than an injured Shaq, a hobbled Jermaine, and Kristic.

Plus, IIRC, we were going to sign Dahntay Jones to back up Pierce after Quisy went down.  He would've been a decent backup, bringing good defense and sold shooting.

If we could've found a way to trade Perk that offseason, I would've been happy, because we might've had an eighteenth banner by then.

Again, I'm loving Green's play right now, though.

I agree with this.  It is utterly ridiculous to say we could have won a few more titles, but certainly that year, it is legitimate argument that the trade hurt our chances. 

[azzenfrost]

He will never get credit for it. Green is doing really well but Perk had/has a lot of fans with the C's. The slightest chance that he gets any acknowledgement, it would be begrudgingly.

Perk was good for us then but I'm glad we have Green now.

[wiley]

I thought it was a good trade at the time and I still think so.  However, Perk is a very valuable piece on a team going to the finals.  He brings leadership, intimidation, all the things that you want in the playoffs (won't be enough against Miami but that's another topic).

Sometimes it's not necessary to talk about winning or losing a trade....both teams got what they want.  Too bad all our Perk replacement centers all broke down physically....

If we hadn't nabbed Green Danny would have found someone else....like Green a lot right now.  If you like Green (and Sully or Fab, forgot which) give Danny credit.  If not, don't.

[jdz101]

I'm loving Green right now, but I feel like if we kept Perk that year, we would've had a much better shot at winning the title.  Pierce and Ray were having superb shooting years, Rondo kept improving, and KG was beginning to fully recover from the knee surgery.  Perk, while a shell of himself, was still an effective defender, and he was definitely better than an injured Shaq, a hobbled Jermaine, and Kristic.

Plus, IIRC, we were going to sign Dahntay Jones to back up Pierce after Quisy went down.  He would've been a decent backup, bringing good defense and sold shooting.

If we could've found a way to trade Perk that offseason, I would've been happy, because we might've had an eighteenth banner by then.

Again, I'm loving Green's play right now, though.

I agree with this.  It is utterly ridiculous to say we could have won a few more titles, but certainly that year, it is legitimate argument that the trade hurt our chances.

We werent close that year. Perk wouldnt have helped.