Author Topic: SVG: Rondo is not a Franchise Player  (Read 1884 times)

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Re: SVG: Rondo is not a Franchise Player
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2013, 12:59:35 PM »

Online kozlodoev

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Sounds like SVG doesn't think Dwight Howard was a franchise player.

You can't put the ball in Dwight's hands and expect him to carry you either.
And he's right. That's precisely what they tried to do in Orlando, and it was a complete train wreck.
Hedo/Jameer/Vince had the ball not Dwight.
They did -- because Dwight obviously can't dribble it up the floor.

But their idea of half-court set was feeding it to Dwight repeatedly, until it was obvious that his awkward post "moves" weren't getting them anywhere.
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Re: SVG: Rondo is not a Franchise Player
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2013, 01:02:36 PM »

Online Fafnir

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Sounds like SVG doesn't think Dwight Howard was a franchise player.

You can't put the ball in Dwight's hands and expect him to carry you either.
And he's right. That's precisely what they tried to do in Orlando, and it was a complete train wreck.
Hedo/Jameer/Vince had the ball not Dwight.
They did -- because Dwight obviously can't dribble it up the floor.

But their idea of half-court set was feeding it to Dwight repeatedly, until it was obvious that his awkward post "moves" weren't getting them anywhere.
Sure they did that a fair amount, especially early in the game.

But late it was a lot of P&R and other sets from what I recall.

Re: SVG: Rondo is not a Franchise Player
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2013, 01:03:02 PM »

Online kozlodoev

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A lot of guys are paid to be franchise players, but that doesn't mean they are.  James Harden?  Carry the Rockets to the WCF and we'll talk.
You understand this is an inherently faulty definition, right? There are only 4 spots in the conference finals. That doesn't mean that there are only 4 franchise players in the NBA.
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Re: SVG: Rondo is not a Franchise Player
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2013, 01:06:07 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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SVG restating the obvious - at least to everyone outside Boston.



actually people outside Boston are less critical of Rondo and think he is better then people in Boston....voted all star starter, the biggest name players in the game credit him as the engine and best player on our team, the NBA itself was marketing him, espn even had a rondo commercial and the national media thought we should blow it up because of his injury and the locals think it's addition by subtraction...sorry

Re: SVG: Rondo is not a Franchise Player
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2013, 01:07:02 PM »

Online KCattheStripe

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Rondo may not be a franchise player but he's capable of being the second best player on a dynasty. There's a little Pippen in him both in his temperment and his wide skill set.

Re: SVG: Rondo is not a Franchise Player
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2013, 01:08:05 PM »

Online kozlodoev

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Sounds like SVG doesn't think Dwight Howard was a franchise player.

You can't put the ball in Dwight's hands and expect him to carry you either.
And he's right. That's precisely what they tried to do in Orlando, and it was a complete train wreck.
Hedo/Jameer/Vince had the ball not Dwight.
They did -- because Dwight obviously can't dribble it up the floor.

But their idea of half-court set was feeding it to Dwight repeatedly, until it was obvious that his awkward post "moves" weren't getting them anywhere.
Sure they did that a fair amount, especially early in the game.

But late it was a lot of P&R and other sets from what I recall.
I always felt that was mostly a result of the obvious fact that you can't win by feeding Howard the ball all the time. I only never understood why they  started every game as if they thought he could have morphed overnight into a Shaq clone.
Managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com

Re: SVG: Rondo is not a Franchise Player
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2013, 01:10:17 PM »

Offline BballTim

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This is the dilemma with a Rondo-centric team.  A dilemma that has been discuss ad nauseam of late.

SVG is correct.  100%.  His quote is right-on.

Now, onto a fan's quote:

Quote
I think if the Celtics can get this scorer along side Rondo...

Herein lies a problem.  In late game situations the ball needs to be in the hands of the scorer, not Rondo, and Rondo is ineffective off-the-ball.  Rondo is not a good spot-up shooter and he is a horrible 3-pt shooter.  He's also below-average at the free throw line, so he can become a liability in numerous ways in certain situations.  Instead of spacing the floor, he actually helps the defense shrink it.  What fan gets excited to see Rondo dribbling the ball at the 3-pt line as the clock winds down?  It's nauseating to watch.  Unless he drives and gets clean to the bucket, it's a wasted possession.  God forbid he gets fouled and has to hit free throws to win the game.

A franchise player cannot be someone who potentially hurts your team at end-of-game situations, such as Dwight Howard or Rondo (just to name two).  Coaches actively keep the ball out of these players' hands.  That says something.  That says they're not franchise players.

  The thing is, people can come up with long lists of franchise players. Most of them are unlikely to have as much postseason success as Howard and Rondo, in fact many of them will have less playoff success in their careers as Rondo's had in the last 3-4 years. People like to make lists of players that can be the best player on a contender that don't include Rondo or list a myriad of reasons why he'll never be that guy. That ship's already sailed. Arguing that Rondo will never be capable of doing what he's already done is less compelling than one would imagine.

Re: SVG: Rondo is not a Franchise Player
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2013, 01:12:02 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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rondo is very talented, but i agree he is not a franchise player.  A team with him as the 1st or 2nd option is not a championship level team imo.  I think having rondo as a 3rd option would be ideal.

Re: SVG: Rondo is not a Franchise Player
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2013, 01:13:48 PM »

Offline Mr October

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I agree that Rondo is not a franchise player. There are few of those in the NBA today.

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Carmello Anthony
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
James Harden
Dwayne Wade

Thats it. Others have potential to be one: Griffin, Westbrook, Love.

Others are either stripped by injuries or age: Howard (when he had his full athleticism, he could carry a team), Dirk, Garnett, Pau Gasol (he was the best low post player in the NBA for 2-3 years), Pierce, Duncan, Kidd, Nash.

this just goes to show how difficult it is to get a franchise player. And without one or even 2, it is extremely hard to win a title.

A person could make a case for Parker, Ray Allen in his prime, Vince Carter in his prime.

Re: SVG: Rondo is not a Franchise Player
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2013, 01:14:19 PM »

Offline BballTim

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A lot of guys are paid to be franchise players, but that doesn't mean they are.  James Harden?  Carry the Rockets to the WCF and we'll talk.
You understand this is an inherently faulty definition, right? There are only 4 spots in the conference finals. That doesn't mean that there are only 4 franchise players in the NBA.

  If the same 4 teams get to the conference finals every year it means exactly that. How many franchise players can you name that never led a team to the conference finals?

Re: SVG: Rondo is not a Franchise Player
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2013, 01:16:09 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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rondo is very talented, but i agree he is not a franchise player.  A team with him as the 1st or 2nd option is not a championship level team imo.  I think having rondo as a 3rd option would be ideal.

Yeah definitely, if rondo is your 3rd best player chances are you have a championship team on your hands. 2nd option MAYBE but first? Nah

Re: SVG: Rondo is not a Franchise Player
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2013, 01:18:49 PM »

Offline anthony83

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I agree with STV, Rondo isn't a great shooter and this is very important in this league. For me Rajon Rondo is a incredible player, fantastic and the best  in this league passing the ball, but he is not a closer.
I love Rondo but the words by STV are true.

Re: SVG: Rondo is not a Franchise Player
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2013, 01:19:36 PM »

Offline BballTim

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rondo is very talented, but i agree he is not a franchise player.  A team with him as the 1st or 2nd option is not a championship level team imo.  I think having rondo as a 3rd option would be ideal.

  A team in the playoffs with two players that are both playing better than Rondo would need to have serious problems aside from those three players to avoid being prohibitive favorites.

Re: SVG: Rondo is not a Franchise Player
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2013, 01:28:38 PM »

Offline edwardjkasche

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A lot of guys are paid to be franchise players, but that doesn't mean they are.  James Harden?  Carry the Rockets to the WCF and we'll talk.
You understand this is an inherently faulty definition, right? There are only 4 spots in the conference finals. That doesn't mean that there are only 4 franchise players in the NBA.

A true franchise player is a guy worth a max deal who will actually single-handedly make you a championship contender for a number of years!

They HAVE to be able to carry their team deep into the playoffs multiple times.

They HAVE to be great enough that you can build a multi-year championship contender around them.

They HAVE to be great at more than one thing and good at everything else, and they HAVE to make those around them better.

They HAVE to have proven that they can do all of the above.

You cannot declare a 20-year-old kid on an 15-win team a franchise player - Kyrie.  Not yet.  He has to prove it. 

You cannot declare a 28-year-old player who eight times lost in the first round of the playoffs a franchise player - Carmelo.  He has to prove it.

You cannot declare a guy who has never been anything but the third-best player on his team, who is only 50 games into his first opportunity to lead a team, a franchise player - Harden.  He has to prove it.

You're being too liberal with the term "franchise player."

Re: SVG: Rondo is not a Franchise Player
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2013, 01:32:01 PM »

Online LooseCannon

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You can't have the sort of bench cobbled together behind teams like KG/PP/RA or Lebron/Wade/Bosh, but I think that a team with a core of Rondo and, to name two good players who are not as good as a healthy Rondo, Joachim Noah and Ryan Anderson, you could have a contender. 

If you had an uninjured Rondo/Sullinger and replaced Garnett and Pierce on the current team with Noah, Anderson, and a role-playing 3-and-D backup SF who is a plus defender at two positions, I'd argue that you would have a collection of talent that, at least on paper, would look like a team with a reasonable shot at contention now and in the near-future.
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