Author Topic: Rondo can adapt  (Read 2919 times)

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Re: Rondo can adapt
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2013, 12:34:36 PM »

Offline RyNye

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Also, maybe guys wouldn't be standing around if Rondo wasn't dribbling for half of the shot clock at the top of the key.

You know, I've asked this before of you, and of others.

Can you actually provide ANY evidence that Rondo eats up more of the shot clock than any other player? Or that our team is paying at a faster pace, now?

Just because you say that something happens, doesn't mean it does. There is a reason the "eye test" is unreliable. Seriously: either show the numbers that prove our pace is faster without Rondo, or stop parroting unsubstantiated claims.

Re: Rondo can adapt
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2013, 12:36:44 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I'll interested to see if the Celtics can win this away game tonight without Rondo and Sully.  Good luck to us. 

Re: Rondo can adapt
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2013, 12:40:15 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Can you actually provide ANY evidence that Rondo eats up more of the shot clock than any other player? Or that our team is paying at a faster pace, now?
You can't provide evidence that he "eats up" shot clock, because for it to be non-anecdotal, someone has to actually track down what we do during a shot clock. A 20-second possession in which we passed the ball around 5 times is fundamentally different than a 20-second possession where Rondo dribbled around for 12 seconds waiting for something to happen. To my knowledge, no-one keeps easily accessible, large dataset of this.

Just because you say that something happens, doesn't mean it does. There is a reason the "eye test" is unreliable. Seriously: either show the numbers that prove our pace is faster without Rondo, or stop parroting unsubstantiated claims.
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Re: Rondo can adapt
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2013, 01:27:05 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Rondo is too much of a liability without the basketball to adapt to the Freedom Offense.  He's not a legit threat to knock down open shots... we couldn't play this way with Rondo.

Re: Rondo can adapt
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2013, 01:39:26 PM »

Offline wiley

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Rondo is too much of a liability without the basketball to adapt to the Freedom Offense.  He's not a legit threat to knock down open shots... we couldn't play this way with Rondo.

Not true.  There's always a place for a great passer in this kind of offense.  He can cut to the hole or take it there himself as well...

You're making it too black and white.  Subtle adjustments are the name of the game in sports....

Re: Rondo can adapt
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2013, 02:05:53 PM »

Offline Onslaught

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I'm still worried that our improved "play" is mostly schedule related. We're about to find out with a much tougher stretch especially on the road.
And how much will still be in the tank at the end of the year if 34 & 5 must keep the ship from sinking without Rondo.
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Re: Rondo can adapt
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2013, 02:25:35 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I'm still worried that our improved "play" is mostly schedule related. We're about to find out with a much tougher stretch especially on the road.
And how much will still be in the tank at the end of the year if 34 & 5 must keep the ship from sinking without Rondo.
Just as much.

The majority of the improved play so far has come from players not named Paul Pierce or Kevin Garnett being more efficient in their (expanded) roles.
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Re: Rondo can adapt
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2013, 03:01:35 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Rondo is too much of a liability without the basketball to adapt to the Freedom Offense.  He's not a legit threat to knock down open shots... we couldn't play this way with Rondo.

  I'd guess you haven't seen many games this year. But it wouldn't be a disaster if we go back to our (generally superior) offense with Rondo.


Re: Rondo can adapt
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2013, 03:11:11 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I'm still worried that our improved "play" is mostly schedule related. We're about to find out with a much tougher stretch especially on the road.
And how much will still be in the tank at the end of the year if 34 & 5 must keep the ship from sinking without Rondo.
Just as much.

The majority of the improved play so far has come from players not named Paul Pierce or Kevin Garnett being more efficient in their (expanded) roles.

  Paul's had 3 double doubles in 4 games and he's getting 6-7 assists a game.

Re: Rondo can adapt
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2013, 03:21:39 PM »

Offline Galeto

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Rondo is too much of a liability without the basketball to adapt to the Freedom Offense.  He's not a legit threat to knock down open shots... we couldn't play this way with Rondo.

  I'd guess you haven't seen many games this year. But it wouldn't be a disaster if we go back to our (generally superior) offense with Rondo.

One thing about the on and off splits is the sample size.  Rondo plays so much and hardly sits for more than 3-4 minutes at a time that I don't take too much from that data, good or bad. 

But just on a general point, is the leader of the 26th best offense that big of a loss?  They gain more on defense than they lose on offense.  They're also just more fun to watch because ball movement is better than a one-man dribble fest. 

Re: Rondo can adapt
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2013, 04:00:39 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Rondo is too much of a liability without the basketball to adapt to the Freedom Offense.  He's not a legit threat to knock down open shots... we couldn't play this way with Rondo.

  I'd guess you haven't seen many games this year. But it wouldn't be a disaster if we go back to our (generally superior) offense with Rondo.

One thing about the on and off splits is the sample size.  Rondo plays so much and hardly sits for more than 3-4 minutes at a time that I don't take too much from that data, good or bad. 

But just on a general point, is the leader of the 26th best offense that big of a loss?  They gain more on defense than they lose on offense.  They're also just more fun to watch because ball movement is better than a one-man dribble fest.

  We're 26th in offense but we're above average in eFG% and TS%. What happens if those numbers take a dive?

Re: Rondo can adapt
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2013, 04:08:13 PM »

Offline kgfor3

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Rondo is too much of a liability without the basketball to adapt to the Freedom Offense.  He's not a legit threat to knock down open shots... we couldn't play this way with Rondo.

I disagree. His mid range game has drastically improved, and Rondo is a great PG he can adapt to any offense.

Re: Rondo can adapt
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2013, 04:16:18 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Rondo is too much of a liability without the basketball to adapt to the Freedom Offense.  He's not a legit threat to knock down open shots... we couldn't play this way with Rondo.

I disagree. His mid range game has drastically improved, and Rondo is a great PG he can adapt to any offense.

Yeah, I don't see the problem with playing Rondo off the ball, particularly when he's actually taking the shots, and making them for a change.

He should be able to cut well, and his penetration off ball movement should give him good opportunities.

Re: Rondo can adapt
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2013, 04:55:58 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Rondo is too much of a liability without the basketball to adapt to the Freedom Offense.  He's not a legit threat to knock down open shots... we couldn't play this way with Rondo.
Everyone clearly has a different point of view on this but I agree 100% with LarBrd33. Although you tend to see stretches where Rondo just works the ball more but it seems to always revert back to the norm of Rondo dribbling and waiting for a pass that can result in an assist.

One thing I notice that the coach could fix is after a defensive rebound, if Rondo is on the court, they always give him the ball and he dribbles it the rest of the way, always.  Without Rondo, they just seem to let whoever advance the ball and tend to pass more.  It seems like they have been told to get Rondo the ball.

Rondo is dangerous as a passer in this situation but I would prefer to see them just taking what is there and let Rondo end up with the ball only when that is a more natural result (vs. always forcing the ball to him).

The defenses though sag off Rondo once you get in a play set situation.  Rondo then seems to fall into the trap of not wanting to shoot and not being pressured so he just dribbles and looks.  It is a self sustaining cycle that is the result of Rondo not being a shooting threat that the other team is worried about.

If Rondo passes the ball, his man just goes off and doubles.  I guess when Rondo is on the floor, we are probably better off with the ball in his hands and his man sagging vs. Rondo not having the ball and his man doubling whoever does have the ball.  Thus the the cycle continues of Rondo holding the ball, dribbling, waiting......

Re: Rondo can adapt
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2013, 05:03:55 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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The guy single handedly wheeled us into wins in most games and has always being the one that seemed to care on most games this season (even last).  When he creates good looks for guys (who are obviously waiting around in the first place), they still brick most of it.
Overstatement of the year (also, you probably meant 'willed'?).

Also, maybe guys wouldn't be standing around if Rondo wasn't dribbling for half of the shot clock at the top of the key.

Last year that wasn't a problem. The personnel around Rondo preferred to play off the ball more than this group does. Rondo, no Doc adjusted to that change and as a result we've been running the same sets and Rondo has been playing the same way he played last year.
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