Author Topic: Felger's First Good Celtics Point  (Read 4812 times)

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Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2013, 12:03:20 PM »

Offline clover

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The irony of course would be if KG's demand led the team to trade Pierce when they wouldn't have otherwise.  The assumption behind that has to be that Pierce would rather be traded than left on a losing team, and if that's already where he is...

But I believe reports have been that KG and Rondo were hanging closely together as of last season with another group of players--and Pierce wasn't in that group.  It's entirely possible for KG and Pierce to have a strong work relationship that doesn't extend to the personal.

But I believe Wyc is the guy who has put stops on other than lopsided deals for the Big Three over the past two years--and thus kept the C's from, for example, having Drummond on their roster right now.

Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2013, 12:03:56 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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There are also games where Rondo's fairly close to a triple double in the 3rd quarter and doesn't get another rebound the entire night. He doesn't spend those games hanging around under the basket. Are you claiming that Rondo only wants to pad his stats during certain games?
That's another topic for discussion, too -- most of his triple-doubles are on national TV. Make of this what you will.

  I knew what was going on when it was said. At the time Rondo had a large percentage of his triple doubles in the playoffs, and all playoff games are on national tv. Check out the career playoff triple double leaders, they have 10% to 20% of their triple doubles during the playoffs. For Rondo that number is probably 40% or more.

  I know there are a ton of people here who heard that stat  and decided that it meant that if Rondo was playing the Hawks twice in a week he'd figure out which one was on TNT and not comcast so he'd know which game to try harder in. They should try and learn more about the players they root for.

Just to build off this, it annoys me how people say Rondo coasts through every non-National TV game.  That's just false.

Everyone can agree that Rondo takes his game to new heights when he plays on ESPN, TNT, ABC, etc.  what cannot be agreed on, though, is Rondo's effort on Comcast and such.  I've seen plenty of games where Rondo has great games (he had a trip-dub last year against the Bucks in a game that wasn't on National TV).  Sure, Rondo coasts in plenty of those games, but there are some where he does show effort.

And to those who wonder why Rondo can't play like he does on TV every game, the simple answer is that it would shorten his career. Heck, you could argue his play style could be the reason he blew out his knee. There are few players who hit the ground as much as Rondo, and that takes a toll on you.  Just look at Wade.  He's slowed down significantly.

Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2013, 12:07:50 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Let me get one thing out of the way first; Michael Felger is the absolute worst radio personality out there.  The guy is a total jackass, who does nothing but spew sensationalist garbage.  I guess that is what "sells" these days though.  Sure, he's right about KG, and Wyc also, but I'm not giving him credit for things that are painfully obvious.

Now, about KG; KG is absolutely one of the most loyal atheletes out there.  It's just the way he's built.  KG almost assuredly asked for the no-trade clause because he just didn't want to deal with trade speculation.  KG doesn't have to say anythig at this point, he knows it doesn't matter what rumors are out there.  The no-trade clause means he gets to control the narrative.

As for what Wyc's ideas are on how to best go forward, post KG/PP, I thought what Jackie Mac said last night on Sports Tonight was interesting.  She basically said it's her impression Wyc is of the mindset, in regards to trading Rondo, "over my dead body".  Wyc has been attached to qoutes saying he would never allow Danny to trade Pierce either.

Wyc is a fan as much as he is a business man.  Now, maybe Wyc would ultimately step aside and let Danny do his job as he sees fit, but Wyc's opinion matters, for better or worse.  Things will have to get a lot worse before KG, Pierce, or Rondo ever get traded.  Although in Rondo's case, despite Wyc's supposed felelings about Rondo, I could see a deal being done if the Celtics were absolutely "blown away".
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Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2013, 12:14:59 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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There are also games where Rondo's fairly close to a triple double in the 3rd quarter and doesn't get another rebound the entire night. He doesn't spend those games hanging around under the basket. Are you claiming that Rondo only wants to pad his stats during certain games?
That's another topic for discussion, too -- most of his triple-doubles are on national TV. Make of this what you will.

  I knew what was going on when it was said. At the time Rondo had a large percentage of his triple doubles in the playoffs, and all playoff games are on national tv. Check out the career playoff triple double leaders, they have 10% to 20% of their triple doubles during the playoffs. For Rondo that number is probably 40% or more.

  I know there are a ton of people here who heard that stat  and decided that it meant that if Rondo was playing the Hawks twice in a week he'd figure out which one was on TNT and not comcast so he'd know which game to try harder in. They should try and learn more about the players they root for.
Rondo has 28 career triple-doubles. 20 on national TV. Of these, 10 were in playoff games. Therefore, 55% of the non-playoff triple-doubles were in national TV games.

Also, you're not really trying to argue that players don't know which games are on national TV. Maybe not a week in advance, but certainly at tip-off -- and that should be sufficient to determine the type of effort.

As I said, make of this what you will -- there's an argument to be made that it's indicative of having an "extra gear" in big games (as national TV games typically are). There's also an argument of occasionally coasting and padding stats.
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Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2013, 12:19:50 PM »

Online Eddie20

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There are also games where Rondo's fairly close to a triple double in the 3rd quarter and doesn't get another rebound the entire night. He doesn't spend those games hanging around under the basket. Are you claiming that Rondo only wants to pad his stats during certain games?
That's another topic for discussion, too -- most of his triple-doubles are on national TV. Make of this what you will.

  I knew what was going on when it was said. At the time Rondo had a large percentage of his triple doubles in the playoffs, and all playoff games are on national tv. Check out the career playoff triple double leaders, they have 10% to 20% of their triple doubles during the playoffs. For Rondo that number is probably 40% or more.

  I know there are a ton of people here who heard that stat  and decided that it meant that if Rondo was playing the Hawks twice in a week he'd figure out which one was on TNT and not comcast so he'd know which game to try harder in. They should try and learn more about the players they root for.

Just to build off this, it annoys me how people say Rondo coasts through every non-National TV game.  That's just false.

Everyone can agree that Rondo takes his game to new heights when he plays on ESPN, TNT, ABC, etc.  what cannot be agreed on, though, is Rondo's effort on Comcast and such.  I've seen plenty of games where Rondo has great games (he had a trip-dub last year against the Bucks in a game that wasn't on National TV).  Sure, Rondo coasts in plenty of those games, but there are some where he does show effort.

And to those who wonder why Rondo can't play like he does on TV every game, the simple answer is that it would shorten his career. Heck, you could argue his play style could be the reason he blew out his knee. There are few players who hit the ground as much as Rondo, and that takes a toll on you.  Just look at Wade.  He's slowed down significantly.

Well, according to Sean Grande, 20 out of his 27 career triple doubles have come on National TV. The C's have been on National TV about 30% during the Big 3 era. So he's only had 7 during the other 70% of games. I'm not really a stat guy, but I make reference to show how his effort level rises significantly when he wants.

I have a real problem with him "pacing himself" at 26 years of age. If he were in his 30's then I could understand it. Perhaps it's because I hold him to a higher standard since I know what he's capable of. But if he's going to have that on/off switch and coast through a majority of games then he simply can't be the face of the franchise. Because if you're relying on him to bring it consistently, night in and night out, then you'll probably find yourself below 500% like we were.

Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
« Reply #50 on: February 06, 2013, 12:21:20 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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How did this become a thread about Rondo's triple doubles?  What does that have to do with the OP?
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Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2013, 12:29:40 PM »

Offline BballTim

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There are also games where Rondo's fairly close to a triple double in the 3rd quarter and doesn't get another rebound the entire night. He doesn't spend those games hanging around under the basket. Are you claiming that Rondo only wants to pad his stats during certain games?
That's another topic for discussion, too -- most of his triple-doubles are on national TV. Make of this what you will.

  I knew what was going on when it was said. At the time Rondo had a large percentage of his triple doubles in the playoffs, and all playoff games are on national tv. Check out the career playoff triple double leaders, they have 10% to 20% of their triple doubles during the playoffs. For Rondo that number is probably 40% or more.

  I know there are a ton of people here who heard that stat  and decided that it meant that if Rondo was playing the Hawks twice in a week he'd figure out which one was on TNT and not comcast so he'd know which game to try harder in. They should try and learn more about the players they root for.

You know that it was Sean Grande who first brought this up, right? Grande has called every game Rondo has played in his professional career. This isn't Chris Broussard, Skip Bayless, or some other talking head spewing out nonsense.

  The first time I heard it was in a nationally televised game against the Knicks, and it wasn't Sean Grande that said it. Even if it was Grande, that doesn't really change my post.

Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2013, 12:33:06 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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How did this become a thread about Rondo's triple doubles?  What does that have to do with the OP?
Not sure, but I do agree with your sentiment about Felger. He's the local equivalent of Skip Bayless. I tend to ignore him.
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Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2013, 12:36:20 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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How did this become a thread about Rondo's triple doubles?  What does that have to do with the OP?


Maybe because 90% of felger and mazz celtics opinion is rondo hate, and they have been getting giddy about.. it was mentioned in the same segment on their show.. so it was inevitable

Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
« Reply #54 on: February 06, 2013, 12:36:33 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Did anyone else hear what Jackie Mac said last night about Wyc's thoughts on trading Rondo?  I thought it was interesting, even though I'm not sure what to make of it.

I'm wondering of this is worthy of a thead of it's own.
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Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
« Reply #55 on: February 06, 2013, 12:38:11 PM »

Offline clover

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Let me get one thing out of the way first; Michael Felger is the absolute worst radio personality out there.  The guy is a total jackass, who does nothing but spew sensationalist garbage.  I guess that is what "sells" these days though.  Sure, he's right about KG, and Wyc also, but I'm not giving him credit for things that are painfully obvious.

Now, about KG; KG is absolutely one of the most loyal atheletes out there.  It's just the way he's built.  KG almost assuredly asked for the no-trade clause because he just didn't want to deal with trade speculation.  KG doesn't have to say anythig at this point, he knows it doesn't matter what rumors are out there.  The no-trade clause means he gets to control the narrative.

As for what Wyc's ideas are on how to best go forward, post KG/PP, I thought what Jackie Mac said last night on Sports Tonight was interesting.  She basically said it's her impression Wyc is of the mindset, in regards to trading Rondo, "over my dead body".  Wyc has been attached to qoutes saying he would never allow Danny to trade Pierce either.

Wyc is a fan as much as he is a business man.  Now, maybe Wyc would ultimately step aside and let Danny do his job as he sees fit, but Wyc's opinion matters, for better or worse.  Things will have to get a lot worse before KG, Pierce, or Rondo ever get traded.  Although in Rondo's case, despite Wyc's supposed felelings about Rondo, I could see a deal being done if the Celtics were absolutely "blown away".

For worse, IMO--though Wyc's a nice guy.

Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
« Reply #56 on: February 06, 2013, 12:43:22 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Did anyone else hear what Jackie Mac said last night about Wyc's thoughts on trading Rondo?  I thought it was interesting, even though I'm not sure what to make of it.

I'm wondering of this is worthy of a thead of it's own.
I missed this. Share the essence, please?
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Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
« Reply #57 on: February 06, 2013, 12:45:38 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Did anyone else hear what Jackie Mac said last night about Wyc's thoughts on trading Rondo?  I thought it was interesting, even though I'm not sure what to make of it.

I'm wondering of this is worthy of a thead of it's own.
I missed this. Share the essence, please?
Over (Wyc's) dead body.

Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
« Reply #58 on: February 06, 2013, 12:46:07 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Did anyone else hear what Jackie Mac said last night about Wyc's thoughts on trading Rondo?  I thought it was interesting, even though I'm not sure what to make of it.

I'm wondering of this is worthy of a thead of it's own.
I missed this. Share the essence, please?

She said, word-for-word, it was her impression Wyc's thoughts on trading Rondo were "over my dead body".  It just seemed so odd for what was kind of a throw away comment.
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Re: Felger's First Good Celtics Point
« Reply #59 on: February 06, 2013, 12:48:07 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Did anyone else hear what Jackie Mac said last night about Wyc's thoughts on trading Rondo?  I thought it was interesting, even though I'm not sure what to make of it.

I'm wondering of this is worthy of a thead of it's own.
I missed this. Share the essence, please?
Over (Wyc's) dead body.
Interesting.

In terms of potential incoming value vs. value to the team, I think Rondo is the most tradeable player on the roster (this is to say, he has very high value to our team, but can also bring very high value in return).
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