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[PhoSita]

There's something to be said for seeing basketball played at an extremely high level, even if the team ultimately falls short.

There isn't a great example with the Celtics, because generally when the team has had great players they've won.  Using a baseball example, though, I'd gladly re-live the 40s and 50s as a Red Sox fan.  That's decades without a title, but the chance to watch Ted Williams every day.  I think getting to witness that is special in its own right.

If this team had missed on a title in 2008, would we look back on the past five years and consider it a waste of time?  Do people now feel that way about 2009 until the present?  Or, do they look at the special opportunity we've had as fans to watch amazing basketball and to enjoy a lot of thrills along the way?

I guess we ought to ask some Utah Jazz fans.

If you told me the next great Celtics star (or two) would lead the team on a run of 19 straight seasons over .500, 7 seasons with 55 or more wins, and two Finals appearances, but no championships, I'd be on board with that.

[Roy H.]

There's something to be said for seeing basketball played at an extremely high level, even if the team ultimately falls short.

There isn't a great example with the Celtics, because generally when the team has had great players they've won.  Using a baseball example, though, I'd gladly re-live the 40s and 50s as a Red Sox fan.  That's decades without a title, but the chance to watch Ted Williams every day.  I think getting to witness that is special in its own right.

If this team had missed on a title in 2008, would we look back on the past five years and consider it a waste of time?  Do people now feel that way about 2009 until the present?  Or, do they look at the special opportunity we've had as fans to watch amazing basketball and to enjoy a lot of thrills along the way?

I guess we ought to ask some Utah Jazz fans.

My guess would be that most Jazz fans appreciate the Stockton / Malone years.  My further guess is that if given the option to go back in time and trade Stockton in his final seasons for a mid-level first rounder, most of them would pass.

If you told me the next great Celtics star (or two) would lead the team on a run of 19 straight seasons over .500, 7 seasons with 55 or more wins, and two Finals appearances, but no championships, I'd be on board with that.

Yeah.  So long as the Lakers don't pass us in titles along the way.

[CelticConcourse]

There's something to be said for seeing basketball played at an extremely high level, even if the team ultimately falls short.

There isn't a great example with the Celtics, because generally when the team has had great players they've won.  Using a baseball example, though, I'd gladly re-live the 40s and 50s as a Red Sox fan.  That's decades without a title, but the chance to watch Ted Williams every day.  I think getting to witness that is special in its own right.

If this team had missed on a title in 2008, would we look back on the past five years and consider it a waste of time?  Do people now feel that way about 2009 until the present?  Or, do they look at the special opportunity we've had as fans to watch amazing basketball and to enjoy a lot of thrills along the way?

I guess we ought to ask some Utah Jazz fans.

Nearly all. Same with us and Mr. 34

[KGs Knee]

There's something to be said for seeing basketball played at an extremely high level, even if the team ultimately falls short.

There isn't a great example with the Celtics, because generally when the team has had great players they've won.  Using a baseball example, though, I'd gladly re-live the 40s and 50s as a Red Sox fan.  That's decades without a title, but the chance to watch Ted Williams every day.  I think getting to witness that is special in its own right.

If this team had missed on a title in 2008, would we look back on the past five years and consider it a waste of time?  Do people now feel that way about 2009 until the present?  Or, do they look at the special opportunity we've had as fans to watch amazing basketball and to enjoy a lot of thrills along the way?

I guess we ought to ask some Utah Jazz fans.

My guess would be that most Jazz fans appreciate the Stockton / Malone years.  My further guess is that if given the option to go back in time and trade Stockton in his final seasons for a mid-level first rounder, most of them would pass.

If you told me the next great Celtics star (or two) would lead the team on a run of 19 straight seasons over .500, 7 seasons with 55 or more wins, and two Finals appearances, but no championships, I'd be on board with that.

Yeah.  So long as the Lakers don't pass us in titles along the way.

Sounds to me like your thought process concerning whether or not winning championships is important or not is partially colored by the fact the Celtics not only have won championships already, but have won the most.  Otherwise, if it wasn't important, why would you care whether or not the Lakers pass us?

[Roy H.]

There's something to be said for seeing basketball played at an extremely high level, even if the team ultimately falls short.

There isn't a great example with the Celtics, because generally when the team has had great players they've won.  Using a baseball example, though, I'd gladly re-live the 40s and 50s as a Red Sox fan.  That's decades without a title, but the chance to watch Ted Williams every day.  I think getting to witness that is special in its own right.

If this team had missed on a title in 2008, would we look back on the past five years and consider it a waste of time?  Do people now feel that way about 2009 until the present?  Or, do they look at the special opportunity we've had as fans to watch amazing basketball and to enjoy a lot of thrills along the way?

I guess we ought to ask some Utah Jazz fans.

My guess would be that most Jazz fans appreciate the Stockton / Malone years.  My further guess is that if given the option to go back in time and trade Stockton in his final seasons for a mid-level first rounder, most of them would pass.

If you told me the next great Celtics star (or two) would lead the team on a run of 19 straight seasons over .500, 7 seasons with 55 or more wins, and two Finals appearances, but no championships, I'd be on board with that.

Yeah.  So long as the Lakers don't pass us in titles along the way.

Sounds to me like your thought process concerning whether or not winning championships is important or not is partially colored by the fact the Celtics not only have won championships already, but have won the most.  Otherwise, if it wasn't important, why would you care whether or not the Lakers pass us?

Did you see the little winkie face there?  That implies it's a joke.

[KGs Knee]

There's something to be said for seeing basketball played at an extremely high level, even if the team ultimately falls short.

There isn't a great example with the Celtics, because generally when the team has had great players they've won.  Using a baseball example, though, I'd gladly re-live the 40s and 50s as a Red Sox fan.  That's decades without a title, but the chance to watch Ted Williams every day.  I think getting to witness that is special in its own right.

If this team had missed on a title in 2008, would we look back on the past five years and consider it a waste of time?  Do people now feel that way about 2009 until the present?  Or, do they look at the special opportunity we've had as fans to watch amazing basketball and to enjoy a lot of thrills along the way?

I guess we ought to ask some Utah Jazz fans.

My guess would be that most Jazz fans appreciate the Stockton / Malone years.  My further guess is that if given the option to go back in time and trade Stockton in his final seasons for a mid-level first rounder, most of them would pass.

If you told me the next great Celtics star (or two) would lead the team on a run of 19 straight seasons over .500, 7 seasons with 55 or more wins, and two Finals appearances, but no championships, I'd be on board with that.

Yeah.  So long as the Lakers don't pass us in titles along the way.

Sounds to me like your thought process concerning whether or not winning championships is important or not is partially colored by the fact the Celtics not only have won championships already, but have won the most.  Otherwise, if it wasn't important, why would you care whether or not the Lakers pass us?

Did you see the little winkie face there?  That implies it's a joke.

Ok, that makes sense.  Never been the best at deciphering internet humor.

I could swear I've seen you say before how much it would pain you to see the Lakers pass us for titles though.  Must be mistaken.

[Roy H.]

I could swear I've seen you say before how much it would pain you to see the Lakers pass us for titles though.  Must be mistaken.

While it wouldn't be ideal, it's not like it's keeping me up at night. 

I've never said championships don't matter.  Obviously, they're the ultimate goal in a season.  However, there's a lot more to sports than rings.

[Lightskinsmurf]

Great topic, TP to Roy for bringingi it up.
I love getting into certain players, and the journey is fun, and potentially also heartbreaking (Pats loss to Giants in 2008 Super bowl is still the most painful sports memory for me).
But the team matters more to me than certain players.

All that said, pro sports are just a form of entertainment.  Some people get really into Disney; I get really into the Celtics. It is important not to lose sight of the fact that, at the end of the day, it is all just paid entertainment.

By far my biggest heartbreak involving sports. I will NEVER get over that. I still can't believe it even to this day. I was a complete wreck after that game.

[Lightskinsmurf]

There's something to be said for seeing basketball played at an extremely high level, even if the team ultimately falls short.

There isn't a great example with the Celtics, because generally when the team has had great players they've won.  Using a baseball example, though, I'd gladly re-live the 40s and 50s as a Red Sox fan.  That's decades without a title, but the chance to watch Ted Williams every day.  I think getting to witness that is special in its own right.

If this team had missed on a title in 2008, would we look back on the past five years and consider it a waste of time?  Do people now feel that way about 2009 until the present?  Or, do they look at the special opportunity we've had as fans to watch amazing basketball and to enjoy a lot of thrills along the way?

I guess we ought to ask some Utah Jazz fans.

If you told me the next great Celtics star (or two) would lead the team on a run of 19 straight seasons over .500, 7 seasons with 55 or more wins, and two Finals appearances, but no championships, I'd be on board with that.

Not me man lol. To each its own tho.

[mgent]

There's something to be said for seeing basketball played at an extremely high level, even if the team ultimately falls short.

There isn't a great example with the Celtics, because generally when the team has had great players they've won.  Using a baseball example, though, I'd gladly re-live the 40s and 50s as a Red Sox fan.  That's decades without a title, but the chance to watch Ted Williams every day.  I think getting to witness that is special in its own right.

If this team had missed on a title in 2008, would we look back on the past five years and consider it a waste of time?  Do people now feel that way about 2009 until the present?  Or, do they look at the special opportunity we've had as fans to watch amazing basketball and to enjoy a lot of thrills along the way?

I guess we ought to ask some Utah Jazz fans.

My guess would be that most Jazz fans appreciate the Stockton / Malone years.  My further guess is that if given the option to go back in time and trade Stockton in his final seasons for a mid-level first rounder, most of them would pass.

If you told me the next great Celtics star (or two) would lead the team on a run of 19 straight seasons over .500, 7 seasons with 55 or more wins, and two Finals appearances, but no championships, I'd be on board with that.

Yeah.  So long as the Lakers don't pass us in titles along the way.

Sounds to me like your thought process concerning whether or not winning championships is important or not is partially colored by the fact the Celtics not only have won championships already, but have won the most.  Otherwise, if it wasn't important, why would you care whether or not the Lakers pass us?

I don't know man, I think LA winning 7 more titles would hurt all of us.

[PhoSita]

There's something to be said for seeing basketball played at an extremely high level, even if the team ultimately falls short.

There isn't a great example with the Celtics, because generally when the team has had great players they've won.  Using a baseball example, though, I'd gladly re-live the 40s and 50s as a Red Sox fan.  That's decades without a title, but the chance to watch Ted Williams every day.  I think getting to witness that is special in its own right.

If this team had missed on a title in 2008, would we look back on the past five years and consider it a waste of time?  Do people now feel that way about 2009 until the present?  Or, do they look at the special opportunity we've had as fans to watch amazing basketball and to enjoy a lot of thrills along the way?

I guess we ought to ask some Utah Jazz fans.

If you told me the next great Celtics star (or two) would lead the team on a run of 19 straight seasons over .500, 7 seasons with 55 or more wins, and two Finals appearances, but no championships, I'd be on board with that.

Not me man lol. To each its own tho.

I guess I should add that a run like that would almost assuredly coincide with watching at least one if not two of the greatest 15-20 players ever doing great things pretty much night in and night out for the majority of two decades.  That's pretty special.

[Kane3387]

There's something to be said for seeing basketball played at an extremely high level, even if the team ultimately falls short.

There isn't a great example with the Celtics, because generally when the team has had great players they've won.  Using a baseball example, though, I'd gladly re-live the 40s and 50s as a Red Sox fan.  That's decades without a title, but the chance to watch Ted Williams every day.  I think getting to witness that is special in its own right.

If this team had missed on a title in 2008, would we look back on the past five years and consider it a waste of time?  Do people now feel that way about 2009 until the present?  Or, do they look at the special opportunity we've had as fans to watch amazing basketball and to enjoy a lot of thrills along the way?

I guess we ought to ask some Utah Jazz fans.

If you told me the next great Celtics star (or two) would lead the team on a run of 19 straight seasons over .500, 7 seasons with 55 or more wins, and two Finals appearances, but no championships, I'd be on board with that.

Not me man lol. To each its own tho.

I guess I should add that a run like that would almost assuredly coincide with watching at least one if not two of the greatest 15-20 players ever doing great things pretty much night in and night out for the majority of two decades.  That's pretty special.

As a fan while it would be special it would never be 100 % fulfilling.

[PhoSita]

There's something to be said for seeing basketball played at an extremely high level, even if the team ultimately falls short.

There isn't a great example with the Celtics, because generally when the team has had great players they've won.  Using a baseball example, though, I'd gladly re-live the 40s and 50s as a Red Sox fan.  That's decades without a title, but the chance to watch Ted Williams every day.  I think getting to witness that is special in its own right.

If this team had missed on a title in 2008, would we look back on the past five years and consider it a waste of time?  Do people now feel that way about 2009 until the present?  Or, do they look at the special opportunity we've had as fans to watch amazing basketball and to enjoy a lot of thrills along the way?

I guess we ought to ask some Utah Jazz fans.

If you told me the next great Celtics star (or two) would lead the team on a run of 19 straight seasons over .500, 7 seasons with 55 or more wins, and two Finals appearances, but no championships, I'd be on board with that.

Not me man lol. To each its own tho.

I guess I should add that a run like that would almost assuredly coincide with watching at least one if not two of the greatest 15-20 players ever doing great things pretty much night in and night out for the majority of two decades.  That's pretty special.

As a fan while it would be special it would never be 100 % fulfilling.

No.  The lack of a title would always be a bit of a bummer.  But I guess my point is that very few teams ever have that kind of sustained success, let alone a championship.  So if you could guarantee me nearly 20 years of success and amazing play while getting to lay claim to a couple of the greatest players ever, even if it meant not getting a title, I'd be pretty excited about that.  At the very least you'd know the team was going to be really entertaining almost every night during that time frame.  There's value in that.

It's overwhelmingly more likely that the next two decades after KG and Pierce are gone will be characterized by a lot of uncertainty and ups and downs as the team tries to find the next combination of stars and role players to be competitive again.  There's a very good chance the Cs won't win another championship in the next 10-20 years.  There's just so much luck involved in getting that franchise star who can take you there, and getting the guy at the right time (i.e. not when somebody like Jordan -- or perhaps LeBron / Durant -- is dominating the league).


Still, my recognition of that uncertainty doesn't change my desire to get started on that journey.  Indeed, it's part of it.  This era is known, and I'm pretty sure I know how it's going to end.  The next chapter is a mystery.

[Casperian]

Well, it certainly should be to the GM. Why else do we have one? But that wasn´t your question, right?

I think the answer, as always, is "it depends".
Generally, I think it´s disrespectful and undermines the integrity of the game to settle for mediocrity. Disrespectful to your opponents, to the officials, and to the history of the sport. There were players in this league who shed blood to win a title, and you´re certainly not above that.
Let me put it this way: Red wasn´t lighting up cigars for good effort. And little KG didn´t grow up and said "Momma, I´m going to become a professional basketball player, and I will play .500 ball for my entire career."

Now, if you´re a young team, and nobody can realistically expect you to win a championship, then of course I´m more forgiving, but I still expect you to give your best to win a title one day. If you´re a super talented rookie and all you look for is a quick paycheck and blonde women, I will be angry and certainly never root for you, precisely because you´re disrespecting the game.

I mean, what´s next? Allow PED´s, because they enhance the physical capabilities of players, and thus the spectacle?
I despise Lance Armstrong, and I don´t give a dang about the "incredible story" he´s selling us. All it does is leave me with a shallow feeling.

The art of basketball, and what Red taught all of us, is as much about winning, about your team vs my team, than it is about a perfect form in your shot or setting a pick. If you can´t oblige to that, I will forgive you. If you don´t care about it, get out of my sight and don´t you dare to ever come back.

On a related note, and maybe I shouldn´t bring that up, but I think most of you who say winning doesn´t matter on whether you root for a player or not are lying to yourself. Back when I organized the "25 greatest Celtics of all time" polls, we all collectively voted for KG before the likes of Ricky Davis, Dana Barros and Antoine Walker, even though he was only a Celtic for two years. The obvious reason for this is that winning does matter to us, and that it plays an integral part in who we consider to be "a real Celtic".

Finally, I want you to watch this:



Seriously, even if you´ve seen it before, watch the whole 10 minutes, and don´t skip the part about the Timberwolves.

If you´re a fan of Kevin Garnett, what exactly are you a fan of if not winning?

[Moranis]

There's something to be said for seeing basketball played at an extremely high level, even if the team ultimately falls short.

There isn't a great example with the Celtics, because generally when the team has had great players they've won.  Using a baseball example, though, I'd gladly re-live the 40s and 50s as a Red Sox fan.  That's decades without a title, but the chance to watch Ted Williams every day.  I think getting to witness that is special in its own right.

If this team had missed on a title in 2008, would we look back on the past five years and consider it a waste of time?  Do people now feel that way about 2009 until the present?  Or, do they look at the special opportunity we've had as fans to watch amazing basketball and to enjoy a lot of thrills along the way?

I guess we ought to ask some Utah Jazz fans.

My guess would be that most Jazz fans appreciate the Stockton / Malone years.  My further guess is that if given the option to go back in time and trade Stockton in his final seasons for a mid-level first rounder, most of them would pass.

If they knew 100% that Utah would not win, I think most would in fact trade Stockton and/or Malone.  At that time, however, Utah was a legit contender so it didn't make sense to trade either one.