Author Topic: When does AB become an impact player?  (Read 2788 times)

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Re: When does AB become an impact player?
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2013, 09:15:19 AM »

Offline jambr380

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He's a Tony Allen with less defensive upside and better shooting motion. Quality rotation player at worst and at best, so, he's an impact player probably.

Less defensive upside?  I can't really agree with that.  Are you basing that just on the fact that he's an inch or two shorter than TA?  Bradley is a much smarter player, for starters.  I think it's fair to say his upside is better on both ends of the floor.

I think Bradley's ceiling is as the best guard defender in the game with an offensive game pretty similar to Courtney Lee -- 12-14 pts a night on 45 / 40 / 80 shooting.

  The advantage Allen has over Bradley is versatility. Avery's a very good defender but Tony's bigger and stronger and can cover more players effectively.

Yeah, I get that.  TA can perhaps cover 3 positions (both guard spots and SF) while Avery can really only cover guards. 

But I don't think that's the same as saying that Bradley doesn't have more "upside" than TA, even defensively.  TA is a very good defender, but he doesn't change the game the way that Bradley does.  Bradley seems to have an almost KG-like effect on team defense.  I don't remember TA ever doing that.

Also you can't underestimate the importance of the fact that Bradley is a smart basketball player; nobody has ever accused TA of being particularly smart (on the court).

  I remember the 2010 playoffs where TA made a big defensive impact against the Heat by guarding Wade, the Cavs by guarding James and the Lakers by guarding Kobe. Bradley generally doesn't guard whoever the best scorer is on the other team, he guards the pg.

Bradley is perhaps the best defender ever against Wade. Also, this is the age of the pg, so I have no problem with him guarding the likes of Irving, Westbrook, CP3, etc...

Re: When does AB become an impact player?
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2013, 09:45:04 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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He's a Tony Allen with less defensive upside and better shooting motion. Quality rotation player at worst and at best, so, he's an impact player probably.

Less defensive upside?  I can't really agree with that.  Are you basing that just on the fact that he's an inch or two shorter than TA?  Bradley is a much smarter player, for starters.  I think it's fair to say his upside is better on both ends of the floor.

I think Bradley's ceiling is as the best guard defender in the game with an offensive game pretty similar to Courtney Lee -- 12-14 pts a night on 45 / 40 / 80 shooting.

  The advantage Allen has over Bradley is versatility. Avery's a very good defender but Tony's bigger and stronger and can cover more players effectively.

Yeah, I get that.  TA can perhaps cover 3 positions (both guard spots and SF) while Avery can really only cover guards. 

But I don't think that's the same as saying that Bradley doesn't have more "upside" than TA, even defensively.  TA is a very good defender, but he doesn't change the game the way that Bradley does.  Bradley seems to have an almost KG-like effect on team defense.  I don't remember TA ever doing that.

Also you can't underestimate the importance of the fact that Bradley is a smart basketball player; nobody has ever accused TA of being particularly smart (on the court).

  I remember the 2010 playoffs where TA made a big defensive impact against the Heat by guarding Wade, the Cavs by guarding James and the Lakers by guarding Kobe. Bradley generally doesn't guard whoever the best scorer is on the other team, he guards the pg.

Bradley is perhaps the best defender ever against Wade. Also, this is the age of the pg, so I have no problem with him guarding the likes of Irving, Westbrook, CP3, etc...

Tony Allen was just as good on wade...I do think Avery is smarter then ta ever was here and doesn't get the credit for his d on taller 2s ala James harden and Joe Johnson and and I expect to see him on Kobe coming up...he doesn't just chase pgs

Re: When does AB become an impact player?
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2013, 09:47:07 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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When he gets back to being a somewhat effective offensive player.

Re: When does AB become an impact player?
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2013, 09:59:05 AM »

Offline sofutomygaha

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I think the answer to your question is probably "now"

His offensive usage will be much higher for the rest of the spring than it was before. If he takes 4-5 three pointers every night from here on and makes .375 or better, I'll say he's arrived.

Re: When does AB become an impact player?
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2013, 10:07:15 AM »

Offline TripleOT

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In his time in an NBA rotation, AB shot 40/50/80%.  This season, coming off operations to BOTH shoulders, his accuracy is down.  Is that really all that surprising? 

I don't think Bradley will be a career 50/40% shooter, because there are very guards who have been in league history, but I suspect he can be somewhere close to that as he gets more experience and understands his strong spots on the floor. 

This season Bradley is a disaster with perimeter shooting from the middle of the court (4-27).  From the corners, he's a respectable 25-53 with both his twos and threes.  He's also struggling at the rim this year at 45%  after hitting 64% there last year, not getting as many back door layups.

 

Re: When does AB become an impact player?
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2013, 10:14:45 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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In his time in an NBA rotation, AB shot 40/50/80%.  This season, coming off operations to BOTH shoulders, his accuracy is down.  Is that really all that surprising? 

I don't think Bradley will be a career 50/40% shooter, because there are very guards who have been in league history, but I suspect he can be somewhere close to that as he gets more experience and understands his strong spots on the floor. 

This season Bradley is a disaster with perimeter shooting from the middle of the court (4-27).  From the corners, he's a respectable 25-53 with both his twos and threes.  He's also struggling at the rim this year at 45%  after hitting 64% there last year, not getting as many back door layups.
The problem is Bradley is now jacking threes like there's no tomorrow (3 per game) -- and when he shot .500 from the field he mostly got wide open layups.

I do think he's better that the current numbers indicate, but I don't think he'll be anything more than 10 ppg player who mostly scores on wide open shots, cuts, and broken defensive assignments.
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Re: When does AB become an impact player?
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2013, 10:36:37 AM »

Offline rutzan

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i think everyone knows he is a great defensive player and is young with a lot of upside...and...at the same time...i do not think he wants to be labeled a one-trick pony...when you think of great def players you think of russell, mchale, bobby jones, rodman, mutumbo, ben wallace...then...you have players like michael cooper, joe dumars, marcus camby,reggie evans, tony allen...i'm sure i'm missing many...is ab dpoy candidate...maybe...i think we have already seen he is not a ft pg...better as a sg or combo guard...not really a strong rebounder...to be called a more complete guard...i think it has to come from more scoring...which comes back to how does he score more...do the c's need to call his number more...running the ball would obviously help...also...right now...there is a minutes crunch...i'm sure his numbers would increase with starter minutes...

Re: When does AB become an impact player?
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2013, 10:42:49 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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i think everyone knows he is a great defensive player and is young with a lot of upside...and...at the same time...i do not think he wants to be labeled a one-trick pony...when you think of great def players you think of russell, mchale, bobby jones, rodman, mutumbo, ben wallace...then...you have players like michael cooper, joe dumars, marcus camby,reggie evans, tony allen...i'm sure i'm missing many...is ab dpoy candidate...maybe...i think we have already seen he is not a ft pg...better as a sg or combo guard...not really a strong rebounder...to be called a more complete guard...i think it has to come from more scoring...which comes back to how does he score more...do the c's need to call his number more...running the ball would obviously help...also...right now...there is a minutes crunch...i'm sure his numbers would increase with starter minutes...
I'm sure he "doesn't want to" be labeled a one-trick pony. I reckon Rondo also doesn't want to be a 60-odd percent FT shooter. Except that's not the way it works :-D
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Re: When does AB become an impact player?
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2013, 10:47:58 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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In his time in an NBA rotation, AB shot 40/50/80%.  This season, coming off operations to BOTH shoulders, his accuracy is down.  Is that really all that surprising? 

I don't think Bradley will be a career 50/40% shooter, because there are very guards who have been in league history, but I suspect he can be somewhere close to that as he gets more experience and understands his strong spots on the floor. 

This season Bradley is a disaster with perimeter shooting from the middle of the court (4-27).  From the corners, he's a respectable 25-53 with both his twos and threes.  He's also struggling at the rim this year at 45%  after hitting 64% there last year, not getting as many back door layups.
The problem is Bradley is now jacking threes like there's no tomorrow (3 per game) -- and when he shot .500 from the field he mostly got wide open layups.

I do think he's better that the current numbers indicate, but I don't think he'll be anything more than 10 ppg player who mostly scores on wide open shots, cuts, and broken defensive assignments.
I'm fine with his threes, they're in transition or off of feeds to the corner shot and have a better eFG% than his roughly 43% 2 point FG%.

Just needs to make more shots period.

Re: When does AB become an impact player?
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2013, 10:53:40 AM »

Offline rutzan

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so...the real question is...was it fool's gold when ab was scoring 16-18 pts/gm in that late-season run last yr...is that something he is capable of...or...is that asking too much...is that too much pressure...is that something he grows into...

Re: When does AB become an impact player?
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2013, 10:55:08 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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He's a Tony Allen with less defensive upside and better shooting motion. Quality rotation player at worst and at best, so, he's an impact player probably.

Less defensive upside?  I can't really agree with that.  Are you basing that just on the fact that he's an inch or two shorter than TA?  Bradley is a much smarter player, for starters.  I think it's fair to say his upside is better on both ends of the floor.

I think Bradley's ceiling is as the best guard defender in the game with an offensive game pretty similar to Courtney Lee -- 12-14 pts a night on 45 / 40 / 80 shooting.

If Avery Bradley ever has a season where he shoots 45 from the floor and 40 from three he should instantly become president of the United States.
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SG:Williams/Miller/Delladova
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Re: When does AB become an impact player?
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2013, 12:00:56 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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The problem is Bradley is now jacking threes like there's no tomorrow (3 per game) -- and when he shot .500 from the field he mostly got wide open layups.

That's not a problem, that's the kind of thing you do to try and develop a young player.  I want him to pick a few spots on the floor other than the corner and shoot a three almost any time he's open there until he is considered a threat or he proves he will never develop that shot.
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Re: When does AB become an impact player?
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2013, 12:09:51 PM »

Offline wiley

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In his time in an NBA rotation, AB shot 40/50/80%.  This season, coming off operations to BOTH shoulders, his accuracy is down.  Is that really all that surprising? 

I don't think Bradley will be a career 50/40% shooter, because there are very guards who have been in league history, but I suspect he can be somewhere close to that as he gets more experience and understands his strong spots on the floor. 

This season Bradley is a disaster with perimeter shooting from the middle of the court (4-27).  From the corners, he's a respectable 25-53 with both his twos and threes.  He's also struggling at the rim this year at 45%  after hitting 64% there last year, not getting as many back door layups.
The problem is Bradley is now jacking threes like there's no tomorrow (3 per game) -- and when he shot .500 from the field he mostly got wide open layups.

I do think he's better that the current numbers indicate, but I don't think he'll be anything more than 10 ppg player who mostly scores on wide open shots, cuts, and broken defensive assignments.

I'm think Bradley has microwave potential.  Down the road a bit when he's comfortable he's going to have games where he suddenly hits 3 and 4 short-range jumpers in a row in the way Vinnie the Microwave Johnson used to....

Re: When does AB become an impact player?
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2013, 12:12:00 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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The problem is Bradley is now jacking threes like there's no tomorrow (3 per game) -- and when he shot .500 from the field he mostly got wide open layups.

That's not a problem, that's the kind of thing you do to try and develop a young player.  I want him to pick a few spots on the floor other than the corner and shoot a three almost any time he's open there until he is considered a threat or he proves he will never develop that shot.

I totally agree.  He needs to take these shots and look for them in game to get used to it.


And this discussion is fine and all, but I hope we aren't saying Avery hasn't made an impact because he shoots 3 three pointers a game and has a 42 % eFG?  Right?


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Re: When does AB become an impact player?
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2013, 12:15:02 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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The problem is Bradley is now jacking threes like there's no tomorrow (3 per game) -- and when he shot .500 from the field he mostly got wide open layups.

That's not a problem, that's the kind of thing you do to try and develop a young player.  I want him to pick a few spots on the floor other than the corner and shoot a three almost any time he's open there until he is considered a threat or he proves he will never develop that shot.

I totally agree.  He needs to take these shots and look for them in game to get used to it.


And this discussion is fine and all, but I hope we aren't saying Avery hasn't made an impact because he shoots 3 three pointers a game and has a 42 % eFG?  Right?
Well, he's taking them. It's mostly a brick fest. "Developing as a threat" is all fine and dandy, except that you don't shoot yourself into being a threat, that's putting the cart before the horse.
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