Author Topic: I change my mind. We are still a threat in the playoffs.  (Read 4520 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: I change my mind. We are still a threat in the playoffs.
« Reply #60 on: February 03, 2013, 09:05:04 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Sam Jones
  • **********************
  • Posts: 22888
  • Tommy Points: 1056
Just quickly looking at past Finals MVPs...

Lebron, Dirk, Kobe, Kobe, Pierce, Parker, Wade, Duncan, Billups, Duncan, Shaq, Shaq, Shaq, Duncan, Jordan, Jordan, Jordan, Hakeem, Hakeem, Jordan, Jordan, Jordan.

I believe you need stars.

Parker and Billups are sub-stars, one level below a star. And Pierce is that at this stage of his career

But Pierce had some otherworldly games during that title run.  The 40+ point showdown with Lebron that year was certainly the best he has ever been, IMO.

Yeah totally agree, Pierce was a bonafide superstar in 2008... But now, he's  sub-star, and stats good enough to win a title

I think Pierce is still a star, one level below a super-star. KG is still a star too, and RR was on the borderline of superstar. Terry is no longer a sub-star.

And if we can trade our injured borderline-superstar PG for a star C, we're set this year, IMO.

  File that one under "there's no way to know either way". When's the last time a team traded a star center for a pg that just went down with a knee injury?

Re: I change my mind. We are still a threat in the playoffs.
« Reply #61 on: February 03, 2013, 09:06:46 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6175
  • Tommy Points: 382
  • Jeff Green
Just quickly looking at past Finals MVPs...

Lebron, Dirk, Kobe, Kobe, Pierce, Parker, Wade, Duncan, Billups, Duncan, Shaq, Shaq, Shaq, Duncan, Jordan, Jordan, Jordan, Hakeem, Hakeem, Jordan, Jordan, Jordan.

I believe you need stars.

Parker and Billups are sub-stars, one level below a star. And Pierce is that at this stage of his career

But Pierce had some otherworldly games during that title run.  The 40+ point showdown with Lebron that year was certainly the best he has ever been, IMO.

Yeah totally agree, Pierce was a bonafide superstar in 2008... But now, he's  sub-star, and stats good enough to win a title

I think Pierce is still a star, one level below a super-star. KG is still a star too, and RR was on the borderline of superstar. Terry is no longer a sub-star.

And if we can trade our injured borderline-superstar PG for a star C, we're set this year, IMO.

  File that one under "there's no way to know either way". When's the last time a team traded a star center for a pg that just went down with a knee injury?

The only places I can think of a team trading a good Center for an injured PG would be.... Orlando/Minnesota?
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: I change my mind. We are still a threat in the playoffs.
« Reply #62 on: February 03, 2013, 11:36:00 PM »

Offline action781

  • Bailey Howell
  • ***
  • Posts: 3688
  • Tommy Points: 273
C's are playing better , but we have played Sac, Orlando and Clippers without cp3, let's not get carried away.

I will always root for the c's to win, but just don't see the c's beating a healthy bulls team or Miami.
Bingo!! I was going to post the same thing

someone conveniently skipped the Heat from that list...

Not to mention that the Kings wupped us earlier this year when we had Rondo, and the Clippers with Bledsoe instead of CP3 are still a very good team.

What are you guys going to say when we beat the lakers on thursday? Who do we have to beat to actually look good?

Yeah.  And also, a team can only beat the team's on its schedule.
.................to the
Assistant ^ General Manager for the Pawnee Pacers

Tony Parker, Courtney Lee, Rudy Gay, Zach Randolph, Marc Gasol
Jeff Teague, Paul George, Trevor Ariza, Chuck Hayes, Channing Frye
Kemba Walker, Andres Nocioni, Jason Collins

Re: I change my mind. We are still a threat in the playoffs.
« Reply #63 on: February 04, 2013, 12:16:19 AM »

Offline Mr Green

  • Avery Bradley
  • Posts: 287
  • Tommy Points: 29
Bleed Green Ubuntu Mofos!!  ;D

Re: I change my mind. We are still a threat in the playoffs.
« Reply #64 on: February 04, 2013, 12:24:55 AM »

Offline bfrombleacher

  • Bailey Howell
  • ***
  • Posts: 3342
  • Tommy Points: 367
Just quickly looking at past Finals MVPs...

Lebron, Dirk, Kobe, Kobe, Pierce, Parker, Wade, Duncan, Billups, Duncan, Shaq, Shaq, Shaq, Duncan, Jordan, Jordan, Jordan, Hakeem, Hakeem, Jordan, Jordan, Jordan.

I believe you need stars.

Parker and Billups are sub-stars, one level below a star. And Pierce is that at this stage of his career

But Pierce had some otherworldly games during that title run.  The 40+ point showdown with Lebron that year was certainly the best he has ever been, IMO.

Yeah totally agree, Pierce was a bonafide superstar in 2008... But now, he's  sub-star, and stats good enough to win a title

I think Pierce is still a star, one level below a super-star. KG is still a star too, and RR was on the borderline of superstar. Terry is no longer a sub-star.

And if we can trade our injured borderline-superstar PG for a star C, we're set this year, IMO.

  File that one under "there's no way to know either way". When's the last time a team traded a star center for a pg that just went down with a knee injury?

The only places I can think of a team trading a good Center for an injured PG would be.... Orlando/Minnesota?

T-Wolves have Rubio. Unless we're dealing for him too.

Utah? Derrick Favors would be awesome.

Re: I change my mind. We are still a threat in the playoffs.
« Reply #65 on: February 04, 2013, 12:54:58 AM »

Offline ItStaysYang

  • Jared Sullinger
  • Posts: 383
  • Tommy Points: 25
You don't necessarily need a STAR to win a championship - you need a CLOSER. Someone you can go to at the end of games when the defense tightens.

Pierce is a top 5 closer in this league, and Terry is very very good as well.

I hope we don't trade Pierce - we will not be able to get his true value to this team.

As long as we play suffocating defense (props to Bradley's game changing defensive play), we have the ability to do some damage.

Oh and because YOU change your mind, now suddenly it matters? Garbage post

Re: I change my mind. We are still a threat in the playoffs.
« Reply #66 on: February 04, 2013, 01:20:32 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8317
  • Tommy Points: 653
You don't necessarily need a STAR to win a championship - you need a CLOSER. Someone you can go to at the end of games when the defense tightens.

Pierce is a top 5 closer in this league, and Terry is very very good as well.

I hope we don't trade Pierce - we will not be able to get his true value to this team.

As long as we play suffocating defense (props to Bradley's game changing defensive play), we have the ability to do some damage.
You don't need a "closer". You need a good enough team. If you are good enough, someone will hit the shots when needed, and then people will call whoever happened to hit the shot a "closer".

Re: I change my mind. We are still a threat in the playoffs.
« Reply #67 on: February 04, 2013, 04:19:42 AM »

Offline bfrombleacher

  • Bailey Howell
  • ***
  • Posts: 3342
  • Tommy Points: 367
You don't necessarily need a STAR to win a championship - you need a CLOSER. Someone you can go to at the end of games when the defense tightens.

Pierce is a top 5 closer in this league, and Terry is very very good as well.

I hope we don't trade Pierce - we will not be able to get his true value to this team.

As long as we play suffocating defense (props to Bradley's game changing defensive play), we have the ability to do some damage.
You don't need a "closer". You need a good enough team. If you are good enough, someone will hit the shots when needed, and then people will call whoever happened to hit the shot a "closer".

So the takeaway from this is...the better team wins.

Not knocking it. Nothing wrong at all. All this controversial, elaborate, highly abstract crap about having enough "star power", tiers of players...

The team that's built better, that can deal with the situations they need to deal with, that has fitting pieces, with a coach that runs a system that fits those players...that team wins.

And I do see that in the C's.

Re: I change my mind. We are still a threat in the playoffs.
« Reply #68 on: February 04, 2013, 04:46:47 AM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

  • NCE
  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1949
  • Tommy Points: 134
You don't necessarily need a STAR to win a championship - you need a CLOSER. Someone you can go to at the end of games when the defense tightens.

Pierce is a top 5 closer in this league, and Terry is very very good as well.

I hope we don't trade Pierce - we will not be able to get his true value to this team.

As long as we play suffocating defense (props to Bradley's game changing defensive play), we have the ability to do some damage.
You don't need a "closer". You need a good enough team. If you are good enough, someone will hit the shots when needed, and then people will call whoever happened to hit the shot a "closer".

So the takeaway from this is...the better team wins.

Not knocking it. Nothing wrong at all. All this controversial, elaborate, highly abstract crap about having enough "star power", tiers of players...

The team that's built better, that can deal with the situations they need to deal with, that has fitting pieces, with a coach that runs a system that fits those players...that team wins.

And I do see that in the C's.

No that's not CRAP that's FACT. Learn the difference. Stars win championships rather you wanna accept that reality or not is up to you.

Re: I change my mind. We are still a threat in the playoffs.
« Reply #69 on: February 04, 2013, 05:21:37 AM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

  • NCE
  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1949
  • Tommy Points: 134
Let me elaborate on my last post. A championship team needs at least 2-3 legitimate stars to be serious contenders and have a shot at a title. Go back and look at history.

I agree the best team will win a 7 game series. That being said who has the best 10-12 guys is irrelevant. Once the playoffs start it will be your best 7-8 guys vs the other teams.

Keep in mind as good as we were in 2008 it took a superstar like performance from pierce to get past the cavs. It took him going point for point against lebron to survive that game 7. If pierce has a bad game we lose. I could go on and on but you get my point. Stars win championships not role players.


Re: I change my mind. We are still a threat in the playoffs.
« Reply #70 on: February 04, 2013, 06:08:48 AM »

Offline mr. dee

  • Jeff Green
  • Posts: 626
  • Tommy Points: 40
Hmmm... let's see.

Championship teams that don't have superstars:

1978 Bullets
1979 Sonics
2004 Pistons

Those team have all-stars but not a superstar.

True, a contender needs to have a star but not necessary superstars. I could name some role players who won or at least have a great impact on their championships.

Robert Horry?
Sam Cassell?
Derek Fisher?
Sean Elliot?

And who could forget James Posey?

What we need is a role players that will fit in the system. If we have deep bench, they could use it as an advantage. And what if Lebron goes down? The heat's chance will drastically drop.

Re: I change my mind. We are still a threat in the playoffs.
« Reply #71 on: February 04, 2013, 07:46:57 AM »

Offline bfrombleacher

  • Bailey Howell
  • ***
  • Posts: 3342
  • Tommy Points: 367
You don't necessarily need a STAR to win a championship - you need a CLOSER. Someone you can go to at the end of games when the defense tightens.

Pierce is a top 5 closer in this league, and Terry is very very good as well.

I hope we don't trade Pierce - we will not be able to get his true value to this team.

As long as we play suffocating defense (props to Bradley's game changing defensive play), we have the ability to do some damage.
You don't need a "closer". You need a good enough team. If you are good enough, someone will hit the shots when needed, and then people will call whoever happened to hit the shot a "closer".

So the takeaway from this is...the better team wins.

Not knocking it. Nothing wrong at all. All this controversial, elaborate, highly abstract crap about having enough "star power", tiers of players...

The team that's built better, that can deal with the situations they need to deal with, that has fitting pieces, with a coach that runs a system that fits those players...that team wins.

And I do see that in the C's.

No that's not CRAP that's FACT. Learn the difference. Stars win championships rather you wanna accept that reality or not is up to you.

The team with the better player certainly has the advantage.

But, like a guy said in another thread, there's no absolutes. "A team ABSOLUTELY can't win with a "superstar"". That's ESPN fluff. The bottom line is the better team wins.

Obviously the teams with amazing players who can do superb things have huge advantages.

But stars are pretty much defined subjectively and loosely as well. "Stars" may emerge from different situations and some "stars" end up flopping in the playoffs. Is Deron Williams still a "superstar"? Rudy Gay is looking great. The terms "star", "superstar" and other such terms are so elusive. Some players thrive in a fitting system, some players just click...

Bottom line: good players, good fit, good coaching...etc.

Hopefully the Grizzlies and/or the Spurs do something this year. That'll stick it to the Hollywood superstar stuff that Jordan started and ESPN is profiting off of. And, of course, I hope our C's upset a few teams (might be 1 to 50, 100, 200 chance of us making the finals...BUT NOT ZERO).

Re: I change my mind. We are still a threat in the playoffs.
« Reply #72 on: February 04, 2013, 12:18:44 PM »

Offline kgainez

  • NCE
  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1126
  • Tommy Points: 54
Just quickly looking at past Finals MVPs...

Lebron, Dirk, Kobe, Kobe, Pierce, Parker, Wade, Duncan, Billups, Duncan, Shaq, Shaq, Shaq, Duncan, Jordan, Jordan, Jordan, Hakeem, Hakeem, Jordan, Jordan, Jordan.

I believe you need stars.

Pierce

Agree. All these stars are closers.

And I agree with this thread.

I don't know why people think we need a 'star' player who doesn't close games with scoring or even legitimate plays to win the play offs. lol.

I've steered away from the forums because I don't want to be labeled a Rondo hater, but this absence is exposing A LOT in coaching and in Rondo. I just hope adjustments will be made with his return.


Re: I change my mind. We are still a threat in the playoffs.
« Reply #73 on: February 04, 2013, 12:31:16 PM »

Offline kgainez

  • NCE
  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1126
  • Tommy Points: 54
C's are playing better , but we have played Sac, Orlando and Clippers without cp3, let's not get carried away.

I will always root for the c's to win, but just don't see the c's beating a healthy bulls team or Miami.

apart from the fact we already beat Miami...?

and the Bulls? lol...we're 1-1 with both.

Re: I change my mind. We are still a threat in the playoffs.
« Reply #74 on: February 04, 2013, 12:35:12 PM »

Offline kgainez

  • NCE
  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1126
  • Tommy Points: 54
C's are playing better , but we have played Sac, Orlando and Clippers without cp3, let's not get carried away.

I will always root for the c's to win, but just don't see the c's beating a healthy bulls team or Miami.

You do know if we play the Clippers in the finals, with or without CP3, Garnett won't be coming out of the game every five minutes for Jason Collins and Pierce won't sit the first half of the 4th quarter while our 19pt lead gets whittled away to single digits.

We have been playing the entire season with about half of a Garnett and Pierce.

I like this because for some odd reason everyone feels like we're going to play the exact same way in the play offs. I've said it, Doc is MUCH better in playoffs than regular season. He's obviously worried about health and legs and such. In playoffs none of that matters and everyone will turn up.

I guess we will just wait and see.

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Welcome to CelticsBlog