Author Topic: Clippers have inquired about KG  (Read 11442 times)

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Re: Clippers have inquired about KG
« Reply #150 on: February 04, 2013, 11:50:58 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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If you trade KG, you have to trade Pierce

How about

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b2xdfq8



With a 1st coming to Boston and a 1st coming to Cleveland (Boston gets the better of the two)


Boston sheds 14.9 million this season.  It puts them 1.4 million under the cap.  Buy out Odom (last year at 8 million) and the Celtics probably have enough to offer a two year deal to Oden. 


Find takers for Bass and Terry, the Celtics suddenly have young talent, cap space and extra 1sts to build a team around Rondo when he comes back. 


That's how Ainge did it the last time. 




Yes, I would find this a very hard pill to swallow.

Not convinced they have to be in the same trade.


Of course not.  Just more fun to play with.





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Re: Clippers have inquired about KG
« Reply #151 on: February 04, 2013, 11:55:11 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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Anyone who would trade the legendary kg for a garbage package of Bledsoe and butler has some issues...this shouldn't even be a debate...yeah let's officially become a bad franchise again for that package? Right...wouldn't do it for Jordan either...sorry

Consider the 'hindsight' perspective.  Imagine you are in June, 2014 and watching KG's retirment ceremony.  The last 2 years have been mediocre (7/8 seed; 1st round out) and KG (insert Pierce too) is now retiring as a Celtic.  Will you wish you had traded him (them) for something?   

Maybe Bledsoe/Butler isn't enough, maybe Bledsoe/Jordan isn't enough. Anyway, Danny should keep the door open -- perhaps more appealing offers will present themselves.

I'd rather see kg retire a Celtic then accept a package of butler and Bledsoe...I know most people feel this way about pierce but I'd trade pierce for that package..unless kg is the one actually pushing for the trade I'd tell the clips to pound sand

Re: Clippers have inquired about KG
« Reply #152 on: February 04, 2013, 12:00:25 PM »

Offline MBunge

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I'm saying I don't understand why you think this is a "crazy pipe dream", given that it's an obviously poor trade for the Celtics. Garnett, on his last legs, is likely going to be better than any of those two players will be over the next two or three years.

So you're trading away the best player in the deal, and gaining no cap flexibility in the process. Not sure what the incentive is to do this deal

1.  Right now, KG still seems the best player in the deal, but we haven't gotten a chance to see what Bledsoe is like as a full-time starter.  If he produces even close to what he did against Boston, say 18 pts and 7 assists a game, he'd already be very close to KG's current level and has the chance to be even better.

2.  With his no-trade clause, KG's value in any future deal is automatically lower than either Jordan's or Bledsoe's.  KG really doesn't even have any value as an expiring deal unless he's willing to go to some team trying to unload a bad contract.

3.  Giving up the best player isn't a big deal when the whole point is that you're not concerned with winning this year.  Getting a shot at a top 3 lottery pick might be a better deal than holding onto the 8th playoff spot in the East.

4.  If we just hold onto KG until he retires, Boston gets nothing but cap space.  Unless you think a rebuilding Celtics team is suddenly going to become vastly more attractive to free agents than it ever has been in the past, players > cap space.

5.  Getting Bledsoe allows you to make a future trade of either him or Rondo for another player.

Ultimately, all that matters is what KG wants.  If he's willing to accept the trade, it would be crazy to pass on something like Bledsoe and Jordan.  Which gets you closer to another title?  2 to 3 years of a continually declining KG with a no-trade clause or 5 to 10 years of Bledsoe and Jordan?

Mike
The fact that Garnett's no-trade clause hurts his trade value isn't a reason to take 50 cents on the dollar for him. I find three years of Garnett more valuable than Jordan's Bird rights three years from now. Bledsoe expires even earlier than this, I think.

Also, the real pipe dream is that Bledsoe is an 18/7 player.

50 cents on the dollar is better than nothing, which is likely all we get if KG simply retires as a Celtic.

And Bledsoe in the last 7 games without Paul is averaging 13 pts, 5.7 assists and 5 rebounds a game.

Mike

Re: Clippers have inquired about KG
« Reply #153 on: February 04, 2013, 12:02:33 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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I'm saying I don't understand why you think this is a "crazy pipe dream", given that it's an obviously poor trade for the Celtics. Garnett, on his last legs, is likely going to be better than any of those two players will be over the next two or three years.

So you're trading away the best player in the deal, and gaining no cap flexibility in the process. Not sure what the incentive is to do this deal

1.  Right now, KG still seems the best player in the deal, but we haven't gotten a chance to see what Bledsoe is like as a full-time starter.  If he produces even close to what he did against Boston, say 18 pts and 7 assists a game, he'd already be very close to KG's current level and has the chance to be even better.

2.  With his no-trade clause, KG's value in any future deal is automatically lower than either Jordan's or Bledsoe's.  KG really doesn't even have any value as an expiring deal unless he's willing to go to some team trying to unload a bad contract.

3.  Giving up the best player isn't a big deal when the whole point is that you're not concerned with winning this year.  Getting a shot at a top 3 lottery pick might be a better deal than holding onto the 8th playoff spot in the East.

4.  If we just hold onto KG until he retires, Boston gets nothing but cap space.  Unless you think a rebuilding Celtics team is suddenly going to become vastly more attractive to free agents than it ever has been in the past, players > cap space.

5.  Getting Bledsoe allows you to make a future trade of either him or Rondo for another player.

Ultimately, all that matters is what KG wants.  If he's willing to accept the trade, it would be crazy to pass on something like Bledsoe and Jordan.  Which gets you closer to another title?  2 to 3 years of a continually declining KG with a no-trade clause or 5 to 10 years of Bledsoe and Jordan?

Mike
The fact that Garnett's no-trade clause hurts his trade value isn't a reason to take 50 cents on the dollar for him. I find three years of Garnett more valuable than Jordan's Bird rights three years from now. Bledsoe expires even earlier than this, I think.

Also, the real pipe dream is that Bledsoe is an 18/7 player.

50 cents on the dollar is better than nothing, which is likely all we get if KG simply retires as a Celtic.

And Bledsoe in the last 7 games without Paul is averaging 13 pts, 5.7 assists and 5 rebounds a game.

Mike

No thanks...No interest in a Bledsoe centerpiece trade for kg...ridiculous

Maybe for pierce

Re: Clippers have inquired about KG
« Reply #154 on: February 04, 2013, 12:08:27 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Would rather have the cap room when Garnett retires than a PG prospect and contract ballast.

The only trades I am interested in are ones that move mid-length contracts (Bass, Terry, Green, Lee) for expirings and chips.

Start the rebuild during/just before the 2014/15 season.
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Re: Clippers have inquired about KG
« Reply #155 on: February 04, 2013, 12:13:23 PM »

Offline MBunge

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No thanks...No interest in a Bledsoe centerpiece trade for kg...ridiculous

Maybe for pierce

Who do you think Boston can get for KG, given his age, level of production, salary cap limitations and no-trade clause?

Mike

Re: Clippers have inquired about KG
« Reply #156 on: February 04, 2013, 12:15:12 PM »

Offline Moranis

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If you trade KG, you have to trade Pierce

How about

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b2xdfq8



With a 1st coming to Boston and a 1st coming to Cleveland (Boston gets the better of the two)


Boston sheds 14.9 million this season.  It puts them 1.4 million under the cap.  Buy out Odom (last year at 8 million) and the Celtics probably have enough to offer a two year deal to Oden. 


Find takers for Bass and Terry, the Celtics suddenly have young talent, cap space and extra 1sts to build a team around Rondo when he comes back. 


That's how Ainge did it the last time. 




Yes, I would find this a very hard pill to swallow.
Utah never makes that trade.


Why?


They improve their lineup

Bledseo
Lee
Pierce
Millsap
Jefferson


with a bench of
Foye'
Carrol
Marvin Williams
Kantor. 


That team can contend.
THey aren't giving up Favors and Hayward in that trade.  If you swapped out Favors for Milsap or Jefferson, they may do it, but no guarantee.  That isn't a team that is win now mode so Pierce doesn't help them and while Bledsoe is a nice prospect, he isn't a better prospect than Hayward and is no where near the prospect of Favors.
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Re: Clippers have inquired about KG
« Reply #157 on: February 04, 2013, 12:15:47 PM »

Offline Chris

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No thanks...No interest in a Bledsoe centerpiece trade for kg...ridiculous

Maybe for pierce

Who do you think Boston can get for KG, given his age, level of production, salary cap limitations and no-trade clause?

Mike

I think the question is less about who you can get for KG, but more about whether it is actually worth trading KG.  Keeping KG around can have a tremendous value for this team, both on the court, as he is still a very good player, but also in the development of the young guys.


Re: Clippers have inquired about KG
« Reply #158 on: February 04, 2013, 12:16:03 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Would rather have the cap room when Garnett retires than a PG prospect and contract ballast.

The only trades I am interested in are ones that move mid-length contracts (Bass, Terry, Green, Lee) for expirings and chips.

Start the rebuild during/just before the 2014/15 season.
Boston won't have cap room thanks to the garbage that is Green, Bass, Lee, and Terry.
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Re: Clippers have inquired about KG
« Reply #159 on: February 04, 2013, 12:16:40 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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No thanks...No interest in a Bledsoe centerpiece trade for kg...ridiculous

Maybe for pierce
Who do you think Boston can get for KG, given his age, level of production, salary cap limitations and no-trade clause?

Mike
If you can't get anything, then maybe it's ok not to trade him, you know.
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Re: Clippers have inquired about KG
« Reply #160 on: February 04, 2013, 12:22:23 PM »

Offline snively

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Would rather have the cap room when Garnett retires than a PG prospect and contract ballast.

The only trades I am interested in are ones that move mid-length contracts (Bass, Terry, Green, Lee) for expirings and chips.

Start the rebuild during/just before the 2014/15 season.

In the Celtics recent history, young players + trade ballast have played a huge role in our success, while cap room has never played a noticeable factor.

I don't understand why you'd prefer cap room. 
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Re: Clippers have inquired about KG
« Reply #161 on: February 04, 2013, 12:25:03 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Would rather have the cap room when Garnett retires than a PG prospect and contract ballast.

The only trades I am interested in are ones that move mid-length contracts (Bass, Terry, Green, Lee) for expirings and chips.

Start the rebuild during/just before the 2014/15 season.

In the Celtics recent history, young players + trade ballast have played a huge role in our success, while cap room has never played a noticeable factor.

I don't understand why you'd prefer cap room.

With the new CBA in effect, cap room is highly prized. Cleveland was recently able to turn some of its cap room into three tradeable assets and a 1st rounder.

Cap room is not just for signing free agents.

It will take some doing to get that cap space, though. The mid-length contracts I mentioned will complicate things. Ainge needs to determine which of the current personnel are building blocks for the future, and jettison the others.
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Re: Clippers have inquired about KG
« Reply #162 on: February 04, 2013, 12:43:33 PM »

Offline MBunge

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No thanks...No interest in a Bledsoe centerpiece trade for kg...ridiculous

Maybe for pierce
Who do you think Boston can get for KG, given his age, level of production, salary cap limitations and no-trade clause?

Mike
If you can't get anything, then maybe it's ok not to trade him, you know.

Bledsoe and Jordan are something.  They're more than just something.  Right now, Jordan is better than any big on the Celtics other than KG.  Even when healthy, I don't think you could say Sully was better than Jordan.  Right now, Bledsoe is better than any PG on the Celtics other than Rondo and you could make an argument he'd be a better 2 guard than anyone currently on Boston's roster.

If you'd rather KG just retire as a Celtic, that's not an indefensible position.  I'd rather that than trade him for either Bledsoe-Butler or Bledsoe-Odom.   But if you recognize that trading KG is probably in the best long-term interests of the team and that the possible trades you could make are severely limited, Bledsoe-Jordan would not only be a pretty good swap, it very likely is the best possible trade to be made.

Mike

Re: Clippers have inquired about KG
« Reply #163 on: February 04, 2013, 12:52:25 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Wow, I just looked at Jordan's contract.

Once he's traded, and his 15% trade kicker activates, he'll be owed more money through 2014/15 than KG will.
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Re: Clippers have inquired about KG
« Reply #164 on: February 04, 2013, 01:02:29 PM »

Offline Chief Macho

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Wow, I just looked at Jordan's contract.

Once he's traded, and his 15% trade kicker activates, he'll be owed more money through 2014/15 than KG will.

ouch.   probably kills that trade idea.  they aren't going to want to pay him that much.

 

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