Author Topic: Rondo was slowing the team down?!  (Read 5694 times)

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Re: Rondo was slowing the team down?!
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2013, 01:23:13 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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I always stated Rondo was a Great Player but not a Great Fit.

Then you get the players and coach to fit around Rondo, not get rid of your best player.

Mike

My problem with this is Rondo isn't a great enough player where you build your franchise around him. 

How many players in the whole frickin' league are then "great" enough to build a franchise around them if Rondo isn't?

LeBron.  Howard.  Durant.  Probably Derrick Rose and Chris Paul.  After that?  Can we really put Carmello in that category?  Isn't it too early to put Kyrie Irving in that class?  Steph Curry clearly isn't that kind of player.  Heck, Tim Duncan is no longer that kind of player.  Neither was KG, Pierce or Ray when Ainge put them all together.

Rondo's the best player on the team.  Either you build around him...or what?  Build around aging veterans who are going to retire in a year or two?  Deliberately try and suck as bad as you can in the hope that you get lucky in the draft and get someone better than Rondo?  Clear out cap space in the hope you can get a free agent better than Rondo?  How many teams have spent YEARS in the lottery without ever getting someone better than Rondo?  Look where the whole "let's just get cap space" approach got Dallas, from championship and likely contender for several more years to terrible with nothing to show for it.

You have to deal with what is.  Not some fantasy of what you want to be.

Mike

That's the problem.

We've got a VERY talented player in Rondo, no question. Is he a superstar and a franchise player?  In my opinion, no.  Can he get there?  Of course, if he puts in the work.

If we build around Rondo, we'll never be contenders unless he steps up his game.  We aren't going to build around KG and Pierce; they're on the tail end of their careers.  We aren't building around anyone else on the roster because none of them have superstar potential.

That's our problem.  We are stuck with a talented guy in Rondo as our franchise player, and unfortunately, we won't be able to win a chip with him as our best player.

If Danny feels the same as I do, he will blow it up, try to nab a stud in the draft, and see how he pans out.  He might even trade Rondo in the next year or two.  If the rook doesn't pan out, it's rinse and repeat.  That's how rebuilding works.  Sometimes it takes five years, ten years, heck, even 22 years.

I have to try and tackle the illogic of this post, as I have before when this argument is presented.  The problem is the use of the term "build around".  It's a mis-used term. 

Do you think Oklahoma City went out and got Russell Westbrook because they wanted a PG who would shoot a lower percentage than Durant and yet continue to shoot more than him despite it?  No.  They picked up Westbrook because he was a stud basketball player.  Is that "building around" Durant?  Or is it just adding as much talent as possible.  The answer is the latter.

NBA team building is about collecting as much talent as possible at each position, period.  Of course you can tweak things like defense, rebounding, and pure shooting abiilty, but you don't tweak it at the expense of overall talent.

If you look closely, what you and many others are saying is that Rondo sucks at being best.  Trust me, if he sucks that bad at being best we can find better.  And if a team like the Boston Celtics can't find better than Rondo, then it's time to give the guy props.  But the bottom line is that keeping Rondo is not going to prevent the Celtics from re-loading at other positions, especially at his current contract.

So, if you don't like Rondo as a PG, that's fine.  Get rid of him.  But don't argue that you can't build around him.  He'd have 3 rings without injuries to Garnett and Perk.  He's going to the hall of fame if he can get healthy.  Of course you can build around that.

What's wrong with saying, "Rondo sucks at being best"?  I gave Rondo props; he's very talented, but he's not a franchise player.

Sure, you can reload at other positions with players that have skill-sets  which compliment Rondo's game.  I have no problem with that.  You just have to hope that one of those guys is better than Rondo.

I love Rondo.  I don't understand why people here think, "Oh, this guy criticizes Rondo, therefore he doesn't like Rondo."  And, yes, Rondo would have three rings if it weren't for injuries.  Was he the best player on those three teams?  In my opinion, no.  Is he going to the HOF?  Yeah, if he can stay healthy.  Could you build around that?  I'm not as sure as you are.

Re: Rondo was slowing the team down?!
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2013, 01:29:34 PM »

Offline celtics2

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Simply put Rondo was overall hurting this team. I've been saying so for 3+ yrs now. I always stated Rondo was a Great Player but not a Great Fit. I've been bashed for being a so-called Rondo basher for stating the all of a sudden obvious to many, I even been warned by a moderator in the past for bashing Rondo... ??? Now its an epiphany for most if not all to agree to what I observed 3 seasons ago. thx for catching up  :-*

Well I agree with your assessment. Some of the blame goes to Doc who should have recognized the problem especially with zillions of plays run down to the end of the 24 second clock. Rondo's like a caged Tiger he needs to run laps before game to get rid of all that wasteful enthusiasm. As far as the moderator, we're all being watched. Sign, warm air on your neck.

  Most nba teams take more shots at the end of the shot clock than the Celts. Why is that, if none of them are saddled with Rondo pounding the ball and running complicated plays?

I don't think veterans like Allen, Pierce and KG were thrilled with waiting for Rondo to do his dribble under the net while they were getting through screens and double teams. The Team was tired of running down and waiting. The Team was designed for down the court and quick strikes. But those eventually ended up in half court situations and shoving matches. Dennis Johnson pulled that off because a post up always touched the ball early.

Re: Rondo was slowing the team down?!
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2013, 01:42:32 PM »

Offline ItStaysYang

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Simply put Rondo was overall hurting this team. I've been saying so for 3+ yrs now. I always stated Rondo was a Great Player but not a Great Fit. I've been bashed for being a so-called Rondo basher for stating the all of a sudden obvious to many, I even been warned by a moderator in the past for bashing Rondo... ??? Now its an epiphany for most if not all to agree to what I observed 3 seasons ago. thx for catching up  :-*

... Except it was only true this season, so you're still wrong

Re: Rondo was slowing the team down?!
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2013, 01:43:53 PM »

Offline OmarSekou

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Rondo's done for the season. He's not even playing anymore. Can't we just hope he gets better for next year?

As far as his future, I hope it's with the Celts. If a team can't find a way to make use of a great player, then that's on the team. Rondo's a great player and we won't get back better value for him. Let's hope the team can figure it out when the time comes.

This may be the last ride for PP and KG. We're playing well and I hope we can send them off on a high note if this is indeed the end.

Re: Rondo was slowing the team down?!
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2013, 02:34:50 PM »

Offline action781

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Simply put Rondo was overall hurting this team. I've been saying so for 3+ yrs now. I always stated Rondo was a Great Player but not a Great Fit. I've been bashed for being a so-called Rondo basher for stating the all of a sudden obvious to many, I even been warned by a moderator in the past for bashing Rondo... ??? Now its an epiphany for most if not all to agree to what I observed 3 seasons ago. thx for catching up  :-*

Well I agree with your assessment. Some of the blame goes to Doc who should have recognized the problem especially with zillions of plays run down to the end of the 24 second clock. Rondo's like a caged Tiger he needs to run laps before game to get rid of all that wasteful enthusiasm. As far as the moderator, we're all being watched. Sign, warm air on your neck.

  Most nba teams take more shots at the end of the shot clock than the Celts. Why is that, if none of them are saddled with Rondo pounding the ball and running complicated plays?

For me, the issue is not when we're taking shots compared to other teams.  The issue is the efficiency.  We were 26th in the NBA in offensive efficiency.  And the ball was in Rondo's hands most of the time.  My issue lies with Rondo's over dribbling and Doc's allowing (or encouraging) this inefficient offense.

And over dribbling can even be acceptable in certain cases like if the other players on the team aren't good decision makers with the ball in their hands.  But thats not the case with the celtics, we have so many talented players on this team.
.................to the
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Tony Parker, Courtney Lee, Rudy Gay, Zach Randolph, Marc Gasol
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Re: Rondo was slowing the team down?!
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2013, 02:55:40 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Simply put Rondo was overall hurting this team. I've been saying so for 3+ yrs now. I always stated Rondo was a Great Player but not a Great Fit. I've been bashed for being a so-called Rondo basher for stating the all of a sudden obvious to many, I even been warned by a moderator in the past for bashing Rondo... ??? Now its an epiphany for most if not all to agree to what I observed 3 seasons ago. thx for catching up  :-*

Well I agree with your assessment. Some of the blame goes to Doc who should have recognized the problem especially with zillions of plays run down to the end of the 24 second clock. Rondo's like a caged Tiger he needs to run laps before game to get rid of all that wasteful enthusiasm. As far as the moderator, we're all being watched. Sign, warm air on your neck.

  Most nba teams take more shots at the end of the shot clock than the Celts. Why is that, if none of them are saddled with Rondo pounding the ball and running complicated plays?

For me, the issue is not when we're taking shots compared to other teams.  The issue is the efficiency.  We were 26th in the NBA in offensive efficiency.  And the ball was in Rondo's hands most of the time.  My issue lies with Rondo's over dribbling and Doc's allowing (or encouraging) this inefficient offense.

And over dribbling can even be acceptable in certain cases like if the other players on the team aren't good decision makers with the ball in their hands.  But thats not the case with the celtics, we have so many talented players on this team.

  When we take shots we hit them fairly efficiently. The main reason our offensive efficiency is low is that we're a terrible offensive rebounding team, we don't take (or hit) a lot of threes and we don't get a lot of shots at the rim. I don't think any of these issues are because of the ball being in Rondo's hands.

Re: Rondo was slowing the team down?!
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2013, 02:55:59 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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the main thing I think ...all the Celtics and Rondo should see is the fastest way to move the ball is with THEPASS.      not dribble.......Celtics as a team need to move the ball with passing first, dribble  second........see the Spurs.......

this said......Rondo is the most guilty of dribbling the ball forever........passing the ball......is far faster way to get a play going


Rondo stagnates the offense ...way too much .......it is clear as mud

Doc is guilty of letting him screwup the offensive flow

Re: Rondo was slowing the team down?!
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2013, 02:59:09 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Simply put Rondo was overall hurting this team. I've been saying so for 3+ yrs now. I always stated Rondo was a Great Player but not a Great Fit. I've been bashed for being a so-called Rondo basher for stating the all of a sudden obvious to many, I even been warned by a moderator in the past for bashing Rondo... ??? Now its an epiphany for most if not all to agree to what I observed 3 seasons ago. thx for catching up  :-*

Well I agree with your assessment. Some of the blame goes to Doc who should have recognized the problem especially with zillions of plays run down to the end of the 24 second clock. Rondo's like a caged Tiger he needs to run laps before game to get rid of all that wasteful enthusiasm. As far as the moderator, we're all being watched. Sign, warm air on your neck.

  Most nba teams take more shots at the end of the shot clock than the Celts. Why is that, if none of them are saddled with Rondo pounding the ball and running complicated plays?

I don't think veterans like Allen, Pierce and KG were thrilled with waiting for Rondo to do his dribble under the net while they were getting through screens and double teams. The Team was tired of running down and waiting. The Team was designed for down the court and quick strikes. But those eventually ended up in half court situations and shoving matches. Dennis Johnson pulled that off because a post up always touched the ball early.

  I don't think Rondo was thrilled about all the times he rushed the ball up court only to have those three trotting up court a few seconds later either. If Rondo gave them the ball in transition it probably would have resulted in a back court violation.


Re: Rondo was slowing the team down?!
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2013, 03:03:29 PM »

Offline BballTim

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What's wrong with saying, "Rondo sucks at being best"?  I gave Rondo props; he's very talented, but he's not a franchise player.

Sure, you can reload at other positions with players that have skill-sets  which compliment Rondo's game.  I have no problem with that.  You just have to hope that one of those guys is better than Rondo.

  You just need one of those players to be a better scorer than Rondo.

Re: Rondo was slowing the team down?!
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2013, 03:15:07 PM »

Offline OttawaCeltic

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the main thing I think ...all the Celtics and Rondo should see is the fastest way to move the ball is with THEPASS.      not dribble.......Celtics as a team need to move the ball with passing first, dribble  second........see the Spurs.......

this said......Rondo is the most guilty of dribbling the ball forever........passing the ball......is far faster way to get a play going


Rondo stagnates the offense ...way too much .......it is clear as mud

Doc is guilty of letting him screwup the offensive flow


preach brother!
Jameer an elite PG?Please, ask that to his garbage highlights.



PAUL PIERCE, NO!

Re: Rondo was slowing the team down?!
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2013, 03:36:18 PM »

Offline BenHenry

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What's up with all these bandwagon fans hoping we miss the playoffs just to prove that Rondo is the best player on the team? Just go away and join the Heats' bandwagon fans you're embarrassing this forum.

This team's best players have always been KG and Pierce. The Celts are built around Rondo's shooting liabilities granted that he's a great passer. KG has the most impact on this teams' chances of winning while Pierce can still put up 30 on any given night. KG is the anchor of our defense and The Truth is still clutch, we don't call him the Captain for nothing.

Don't call yourselves Celtics fans if you're gonna wish we lose every game. Jeez what the hell is wrong with some people.

edit: Did anyone else saw that Pierce's clutch dagger 3 on the Clippers with five seconds left? Go Celtics! I totally think we can make a deep run in the playoffs.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 03:52:57 PM by BenHenry »

Re: Rondo was slowing the team down?!
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2013, 04:03:31 PM »

Offline Swoopz

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What's up with all these bandwagon fans hoping we miss the playoffs just to prove that Rondo is the best player on the team? Just go away and join the Heats' bandwagon fans you're embarrassing this forum.

This team's best players have always been KG and Pierce. The Celts are built around Rondo's shooting liabilities granted that he's a great passer. KG has the most impact on this teams' chances of winning while Pierce can still put up 30 on any given night. KG is the anchor of our defense and The Truth is still clutch, we don't call him the Captain for nothing.

Don't call yourselves Celtics fans if you're gonna wish we lose every game. Jeez what the hell is wrong with some people.

edit: Did anyone else saw that Pierce's clutch dagger 3 on the Clippers with five seconds left? Go Celtics! I totally think we can make a deep run in the playoffs.

Not sure how bandwagoners fit into anything discussed here so far, and no one is wishing the Celtics will lose every game. No need to act superior by making up claims

Re: Rondo was slowing the team down?!
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2013, 04:10:45 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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What's wrong with saying, "Rondo sucks at being best"?  I gave Rondo props; he's very talented, but he's not a franchise player.

Sure, you can reload at other positions with players that have skill-sets  which compliment Rondo's game.  I have no problem with that.  You just have to hope that one of those guys is better than Rondo.

  You just need one of those players to be a better scorer than Rondo.

This is a great point, Tim.  TP.

I forgot to include this in my original post.  The reason we were contenders before Rondo went down AND had Rondo as our best player is because Pierce, KG, and Jet are, in my opinion, still above-average scorers in the league.  When you pair that with good shooters (Bass and Lee), Rondo can be considered a team's best player on a contender.

Re: Rondo was slowing the team down?!
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2013, 04:11:42 PM »

Offline BenHenry

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What's up with all these bandwagon fans hoping we miss the playoffs just to prove that Rondo is the best player on the team? Just go away and join the Heats' bandwagon fans you're embarrassing this forum.

This team's best players have always been KG and Pierce. The Celts are built around Rondo's shooting liabilities granted that he's a great passer. KG has the most impact on this teams' chances of winning while Pierce can still put up 30 on any given night. KG is the anchor of our defense and The Truth is still clutch, we don't call him the Captain for nothing.

Don't call yourselves Celtics fans if you're gonna wish we lose every game. Jeez what the hell is wrong with some people.

edit: Did anyone else saw that Pierce's clutch dagger 3 on the Clippers with five seconds left? Go Celtics! I totally think we can make a deep run in the playoffs.

Not sure how bandwagoners fit into anything discussed here so far, and no one is wishing the Celtics will lose every game. No need to act superior by making up claims

So the 6th post down on page 2 doesn't exist? - "Yawn....threads like this are starting to irritate me so much you're going to make me root for missing the playoffs."

Yeah okay, learn to read the thread before posting.

Re: Rondo was slowing the team down?!
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2013, 04:25:45 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Interesting that this turned into a blame Rondo thread.

9 out of 10 threads right now seem to end up being "blame Rondo" threads.  Which just turn into p---ing matches.

I'm becoming extremely disillusioned with this blog right now.

 

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