Rondo was slowing the team down?!

[gar]

All of Rondo's triple doubles were not allowing the C's to run. Yes the C's have a rebounding problem; but as the last 3 games have clearly shown, having your point guard rebound the ball and pound it up the court is not the fastest way to advance the ball, no matter how speedy he is.

KG and Sully are both excellent at getting the ball up the court quickly. Unfortunately with Sully out Bass will have to step in and get the ball out on the wing to Bradley, Lee, Terry, Barbosa or Pierce so they can keep feeding Green or Wilcox at the rim!

[Rtpas11]

Simply put Rondo was overall hurting this team. I've been saying so for 3+ yrs now. I always stated Rondo was a Great Player but not a Great Fit. I've been bashed for being a so-called Rondo basher for stating the all of a sudden obvious to many, I even been warned by a moderator in the past for bashing Rondo... Now its an epiphany for most if not all to agree to what I observed 3 seasons ago. thx for catching up 

[saltlover]

All of Rondo's triple doubles were not allowing the C's to run. Yes the C's have a rebounding problem; but as the last 3 games have clearly shown, having your point guard rebound the ball and pound it up the court is not the fastest way to advance the ball, no matter how speedy he is.

KG and Sully are both excellent at getting the ball up the court quickly. Unfortunately with Sully out Bass will have to step in and get the ball out on the wing to Bradley, Lee, Terry, Barbosa or Pierce so they can keep feeding Green or Wilcox at the rim!

I love revisionist history.  Rondo averaged 4.4 defensive rebounds per game.  Assuming every time Rondo rebounded that his next move was to "pound it up the court" (which was not the case, at least not every time) then this play occurred, at most, 4.4 times per game.  I do not think that Rondo's rebounding slowed the team down by any noticeable measure, especially considering the Celtics average 93 possessions per game.

[MBunge]

I always stated Rondo was a Great Player but not a Great Fit.

Then you get the players and coach to fit around Rondo, not get rid of your best player.

Mike

[CelticsFan9]

I always stated Rondo was a Great Player but not a Great Fit.

Then you get the players and coach to fit around Rondo, not get rid of your best player.

Mike

My problem with this is Rondo isn't a great enough player where you build your franchise around him.  Now, if Rondo was your second best player, that'd be fine.

The way this team is constructed is to cover up Rondo's weaknesses (floor spacing) while at the same time boost his strengths (transisition opportunies; ability to drive and kick for jumpers).  The problem is, the system we've been using (at least before Rondo went down) wasn't playing to Rondo's strengths.

[pearljammer10]

I always stated Rondo was a Great Player but not a Great Fit.

Then you get the players and coach to fit around Rondo, not get rid of your best player.

Mike

My problem with this is Rondo isn't a great enough player where you build your franchise around him.  Now, if Rondo was your second best player, that'd be fine.

The way this team is constructed is to cover up Rondo's weaknesses (floor spacing) while at the same time boost his strengths (transisition opportunies; ability to drive and kick for jumpers).  The problem is, the system we've been using (at least before Rondo went down) wasn't playing to Rondo's strengths.

So how is that Rondo fault?

[wiley]

Didn't someone recently post the Celtics overall record when Rondo has a triple double.  It's a very good record.

Rondo was playing the style the Celtics will/do play in the playoffs against the nastier defenses in the league.  I wouldn't have minded if the coaches noticed this and gave Rondo more rest on the bench and let the team play a looser style during the regular season. 

It's amazing how people forget the difference between regular and post season games.  Rondo will be sorely missed, but I'm ready to enjoy what should be an awesome level of defense from the Celtics in this year's playoffs. 

Need Dalembert pretty badly I'd say.  Not sure what his issues are....so maybe we don't, but you get my point.

[CelticsFan9]

I always stated Rondo was a Great Player but not a Great Fit.

Then you get the players and coach to fit around Rondo, not get rid of your best player.

Mike

My problem with this is Rondo isn't a great enough player where you build your franchise around him.  Now, if Rondo was your second best player, that'd be fine.

The way this team is constructed is to cover up Rondo's weaknesses (floor spacing) while at the same time boost his strengths (transisition opportunies; ability to drive and kick for jumpers).  The problem is, the system we've been using (at least before Rondo went down) wasn't playing to Rondo's strengths.

So how is that Rondo fault?

I don't think it's Rondo's fault.  You could put the blame on Doc, Danny, the role players not producing.

The reason I had a problem with what MBunge said was because I don't think Rondo is a franchise player (yet) who a team should build around.

[BballTim]

Simply put Rondo was overall hurting this team. I've been saying so for 3+ yrs now. I always stated Rondo was a Great Player but not a Great Fit. I've been bashed for being a so-called Rondo basher for stating the all of a sudden obvious to many, I even been warned by a moderator in the past for bashing Rondo... Now its an epiphany for most if not all to agree to what I observed 3 seasons ago. thx for catching up 

  Most of the people who think Rondo's bad for the team watch the game selectively and only see particular things they're looking for. They're the people who claim that Rondo slows the game down too much even though we play at a faster pace with him than without him, they're the ones who are praising our newfound transition game in spite of the fact that we aren't scoring more fast break points or scoring them more efficiently, they're the ones who are thrilled about how much better the offense is without him even though it hasn't improved at all.

  Those are the people who are "catching up" to you.

[pearljammer10]

I always stated Rondo was a Great Player but not a Great Fit.

Then you get the players and coach to fit around Rondo, not get rid of your best player.

Mike

My problem with this is Rondo isn't a great enough player where you build your franchise around him.  Now, if Rondo was your second best player, that'd be fine.

The way this team is constructed is to cover up Rondo's weaknesses (floor spacing) while at the same time boost his strengths (transisition opportunies; ability to drive and kick for jumpers).  The problem is, the system we've been using (at least before Rondo went down) wasn't playing to Rondo's strengths.

So how is that Rondo fault?

I don't think it's Rondo's fault.  You could put the blame on Doc, Danny, the role players not producing.

The reason I had a problem with what MBunge said was because I don't think Rondo is a franchise player (yet) who a team should build around.

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarify. As much as I think rondo is the best PG to run an nba offense, I also think he needs a number 1 franchise scorer to be at his best.

[gar]

Interesting that this turned into a blame Rondo thread. All I was saying was maybe he shouldn't be Rebounding when you have a Wilcox, Green or Lee on the floor who can run in transition.

More often than not when Rondo is able to beat the defense down the floor he is looking to drive himself or kick.

That is fine when you had PP, RA and KG trailing; but if you want to run you need to get the ball up the floor faster. Lee, Green and Wilcox can all finish at the rim if you advance with the pass. At least Doc had the good sense to recognize this once Rondo went down.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Rondo and Doc both should share the bulk of the blame for the team not performing the way it should, then Pierce to a certain extent.

Rondo's pace is horrible. Game after game you'd see Rondo going to the bench, and suddenly we start playing faster, you put Rondo back in, with the same unit, and everything slowed down.

Also, Rondo pretty much had complete autonomy on play calling.

So I don't see how one can see a problem in our offensive system, and not throw some of the blame towards Rondo in this circumstances.

[GreenEnvy]

I always stated Rondo was a Great Player but not a Great Fit.

Then you get the players and coach to fit around Rondo, not get rid of your best player.

Mike

For a PF or C, maybe.

PG? I wouldn't. Non-scoring PG? No way. You can make a case for Irving or Rose, but I still wouldn't remake the entire organization for either of them.

[Clench123]

Celtics' fans intelligence is overrated

[BballTim]

I always stated Rondo was a Great Player but not a Great Fit.

Then you get the players and coach to fit around Rondo, not get rid of your best player.

Mike

My problem with this is Rondo isn't a great enough player where you build your franchise around him.  Now, if Rondo was your second best player, that'd be fine.

The way this team is constructed is to cover up Rondo's weaknesses (floor spacing) while at the same time boost his strengths (transisition opportunies; ability to drive and kick for jumpers).  The problem is, the system we've been using (at least before Rondo went down) wasn't playing to Rondo's strengths.

So how is that Rondo fault?

I don't think it's Rondo's fault.  You could put the blame on Doc, Danny, the role players not producing.

The reason I had a problem with what MBunge said was because I don't think Rondo is a franchise player (yet) who a team should build around.

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarify. As much as I think rondo is the best PG to run an nba offense, I also think he needs a number 1 franchise scorer to be at his best.

  What's the definition of a number 1 franchise scorer? Because PP, while 16th and 14th in scoring this year and last wasn't in the top 20 the previous 3 years. People like to talk about not wanting to build a team around Rondo and not wanting him to be your "best player". Rondo's one of the few players in the league that will give you a shot at a title without a franchise player.

  Look at the 2010 team that came within a few points of winning a title. We beat the teams with the two best records in the league (and 2 of the 3 best players in the league) so it wasn't a cakewalk. Pierce was tied for 20th in the league in scoring, KG was tied for 19th in rebounds per game. I don't think very many teams have ever had that type of success without better scorers or rebounders. People want to move on from Rondo because we don't have a franchise player to pair him with. Given the right mix of players, you don't need one.