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[OttawaCeltic]

Hey CelticNation! I just read a quote by a CelticBlogger' and thought of this topic should be addressed and thought upon.

Both Doc and Rondo are overrated.

The 2008 championship squad was stacked. Posey, PJ Brown, Powe, House, Cassell, TA, Big Baby, and for kicks, Scalabrine, supported the starting five of PP, RA, KP, KG, and Rondo. I believe many coaches would have won a title with that many qualified subs for every position. If anything, our sixth man Big Game James Posey, deserves a heck of a lot of credit of his untiring hustle and clutch plays during the '08 run.

And finally, when the shots are falling, then Rondo has his monster games of finding the open man for the high assists, or driving in the lane for a mini-dream shake layup. The was the story of the last three playoff runs but just as in the Jim O'Brien world of the three point bombers, if those shots don't fall, then the entire offense becomes a sludge-fest with Rondo at the helm.

- TitleMaster

EDIT: I just wanted to show this statement since I feel that Pierce & KG has gotten the 'blame finger' lately while we disregard the consequences dealing with Doc & RR

[esel1000]

I guess its fair to blame Rondo when he sets up his teammates for open shots and they miss. He should use his magic Rondo powers to make those shots drop

[Lightskinsmurf]

Rondo is overrated or underrated depending on who you talk too. Doc, hes so disgustingly overrated it sickens me.

[Clench123]

Celtics' fans intelligence is overrated

[Onslaught]

What is it with this place this year?

[OttawaCeltic]

Celtics' fans intelligence is overrated

Sound like some1 is ignorant The truth hurts

[TitleMaster]

From other thread, to add more details ...

BballTim:

I don't think an offense looking bad if nobody's making shots is in any way specific to Rondo-led teams.


Titlemaster (responding to BballTim):

When the shots don't fall ... you take it to the hole, or you help others, to take it to the paint by setting screens & getting in an opponent's face. The problem is that Rondo's game doesn't adapt in that situation, he still looks for that assist during a poor shooting night. Then, you have a game, lopsided by poor shot attempts.


Boris Badenov (on Doc):

Second, we are still incredibly one-dimensional at the end of games. That Pierce high screen play is no longer effective, because (a) defenses anticipate it and (b) Pierce is not the player he was a few years ago. We have new personnel, but Doc hasn't devised any new (effective) end of game sets.


Titlemaster (responds to Boris):

Problem is that there's no excuse for this. Everyone knows that Pierce was entering the twilight of his career, last season. Doc should have thought about this issue back in 2010, not 2012. And thus, have already devised game sets to take into account the changing players on the roster. Doc is not a chess player, like Riley or Pop, he's a one trick pony and he continues on that vein.

[BenHenry]

Celtics' fans intelligence is overrated

Sound like some1 is ignorant The truth hurts

He was talking about himself, just let him be his feelings are hurt.

That said, there were some idiots on the other thread hoping that we lose every game and miss the playoffs just to prove their point that Rondo is the best on this team ****. All while Pierce hits a clutch 3 with less than 5 seconds left to seal the Clippers game.

These fake Celtics fan are degrading and embarrassing this forum.

[SHAQATTACK]

PP or KG. is still worth more than Rondo.   .....dump Rondo for a big

[TitleMaster]

Titlemaster (responding to BballTim):

When the shots don't fall ... you take it to the hole, or you help others, to take it to the paint by setting screens & getting in an opponent's face. The problem is that Rondo's game doesn't adapt in that situation, he still looks for that assist during a poor shooting night. Then, you have a game, lopsided by poor shot attempts.

An addendum to this, the reason why it's important for the Doc-Rondo schematic to change during a poor shooting night is for this reason ... psychological warfare. Yes, if your opponents know that your primary game plan is in jeopardy, they gain confidence and can usually mount a rally based upon that alone, nevermind defensive lapses. If you alter your approach, and start to frustrate 'em on their own defensive glitches, they may throw the game on their own exasperation.

[Neurotic Guy]

If in-game decision making were the only variable used to determine a coach's value, then perhaps Doc could be deemed overrated (though I am not sure anyone sees that as his strength -- other than plays off of TOs).   

Doc appears to have engendered a great deal of respect and loyalty from the people who know a lot more about the NBA than I do.  Players, owners, Danny, etc -- those who work with Doc on all those days and hours that the team is not on the court in NBA games -- seem to think he is a special coach and person.  Does that translate into wins?  I guess not always, but tell me how many teams over the last 5 years can claim something more impressive than 1 championship, 1 Finals Game 7 and 1 ECF Game 7. The Loaded Lakers from 07-10, that's about it.

And 1 of those 5 years Doc lost KG for the season. 

Doc isn't overrated.

[OttawaCeltic]

PP or KG. is still worth more than Rondo.   .....dump Rondo for a big

Agreed 100%, but the big must be above-average and must include some other above-average young player+picks.

[TitleMaster]

but tell me how many teams over the last 5 years can claim something more impressive than 1 championship, 1 Finals Game 7 and 1 ECF Game 7. The Loaded Lakers from 07-10, that's about it.

And 1 of those 5 years Doc lost KG for the season. 

Doc isn't overrated.

Ok, 2009 was the main outlying data point, as both KG and Powe were out for the postseason. That pretty much eliminated our interior game and the final demise was expected.

However, the 2008 Laker's team was composed of Kobe, Gasol, Fisher, Radmanovic, Turiaf. Both Bynum and Ariza were injured and the bench had just slightly above average players like Farmar, Walton, Vujacic, etc. Aside from Kobe ball, that team does not compare to a bench of Posey, PJ Brown, Powe, House, Cassell, TA, Big Baby, and for kicks, Scalabrine, supporting a superior starting five of PP, RA, KP, KG, and Rondo. All and all, with Riley or Jackson coaching the C's, that series would have been over 4-1. KobeBall, at most, beats the Celts for one game, game 3. Afterwards, they wouldn't have made a huge run in game 4, thus, the greatest comeback would have been perhaps, a down by 10-12 contest, followed by an easy Celtics rout in Q3 and Q4.

[OttawaCeltic]

If in-game decision making were the only variable used to determine a coach's value, then perhaps Doc could be deemed overrated (though I am not sure anyone sees that as his strength -- other than plays off of TOs).   

Doc appears to have engendered a great deal of respect and loyalty from the people who know a lot more about the NBA than I do.  Players, owners, Danny, etc -- those who work with Doc on all those days and hours that the team is not on the court in NBA games -- seem to think he is a special coach and person.  Does that translate into wins?  I guess not always, but tell me how many teams over the last 5 years can claim something more impressive than 1 championship, 1 Finals Game 7 and 1 ECF Game 7. The Loaded Lakers from 07-10, that's about it.

And 1 of those 5 years Doc lost KG for the season. 

Doc isn't overrated.

Disagreed immediately upon that premise.

[xmuscularghandix]

Agree on Rondo, disagree on Doc.