Author Topic: Mindblowing Rondo statistic.  (Read 4740 times)

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Re: Mindblowing Rondo statistic.
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2013, 07:24:19 PM »

Online BballTim

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Up to the point where Rondo got injured, he was not having his best year.



It happens. 


It doesn't mean it is a trend.
Actually, I think statistically he WAS having his best year, wasn't he?

He shot better.


But his assist to TO ratio was worse. 


He was foul rate was up.  And other teams PGs were having better luck this season.
Yeah, overall though his improved shooting probably made up for the first two aspects.

The drop off in his defense was more problematic.

Opposing PG production hard to disentangle that from Terry being in the starting line up. Terry would go on the weakest offensive threat the other team had (if they had a Bogans type), or the PG if none really fit the bill.

Not true. For example, Terry was the player guarding Monta Ellis.

We usually didn't do any cross matching, Terry stayed with SGs and Rondo with PGs, when logic should've dictated the should've switched assignments most of the time.

  I remember Rondo generally playing the  tougher assignment when he was in with Terry. Switching assignments was fairly typical earlier this year (and late this year with Bradley playing).

Re: Mindblowing Rondo statistic.
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2013, 07:39:45 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Up to the point where Rondo got injured, he was not having his best year.



It happens. 


It doesn't mean it is a trend.
Actually, I think statistically he WAS having his best year, wasn't he?

He shot better.


But his assist to TO ratio was worse. 


He was foul rate was up.  And other teams PGs were having better luck this season.
Yeah, overall though his improved shooting probably made up for the first two aspects.

The drop off in his defense was more problematic.

Opposing PG production hard to disentangle that from Terry being in the starting line up. Terry would go on the weakest offensive threat the other team had (if they had a Bogans type), or the PG if none really fit the bill.

Not true. For example, Terry was the player guarding Monta Ellis.

We usually didn't do any cross matching, Terry stayed with SGs and Rondo with PGs, when logic should've dictated the should've switched assignments most of the time.

  I remember Rondo generally playing the  tougher assignment when he was in with Terry. Switching assignments was fairly typical earlier this year (and late this year with Bradley playing).

When he was on the floor with Rondo, very rarely did they put Terry on the PG assignment. I really can't recall an instance in which Rondo's assignment was not the PG. I do recall though screaming for Doc to constantly change the assignments as Terry was simply overmatched by SGs, and Doc refused to put Rondo on them.

Of course, a play here and there, a pick is set and they switched in those instances, but I can't recall a game in which Doc assigned Terry to the PG while Rondo was on the floor.

In fact, I give credit to the improvement to Terry's defense specifically to finally him guarding PGs rather than SGs.

Edit: But the Bogans point above is completely true, but nothing to do with Rondo though. That one has more to do with Pierce on Joe Johnson than anything.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 07:47:39 PM by BudweiserCeltic »

Re: Mindblowing Rondo statistic.
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2013, 08:02:42 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Rondo last season ... +196 (second best on team)
Rondo this season ... -56 (second worst on team)

And for what it's worth...

Bass this season ... -125


Who knows why this is.  Maybe it's just the lack of floor spacing Ray gave and the instantaneous anywhere, anytime spot up shooting Ray also gave that Lee, Terry and Bradley obviously lack.  Maybe the load is just far too heavy on him and effecting his *ahem* defensive intensity.

Rondo has been mediocre this season, we all know it.  But I'd like to point out as garbage as he's been for us this season, it's an anomaly, not the norm.  He's played way better for us in the past and in the post season is obviously no comparison.
The team is an overall minus and Rondo probably played the most minutes, so not surprising.

Should probably do the stat as a per minute stat so that it isn't so skewed by MPG.

Re: Mindblowing Rondo statistic.
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2013, 08:37:23 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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ALL stats are fatally flawed, in some way or another, it's just finding how to minimize the flaws.
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Re: Mindblowing Rondo statistic.
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2013, 10:30:47 PM »

Online BballTim

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Up to the point where Rondo got injured, he was not having his best year.



It happens. 


It doesn't mean it is a trend.
Actually, I think statistically he WAS having his best year, wasn't he?

He shot better.


But his assist to TO ratio was worse. 


He was foul rate was up.  And other teams PGs were having better luck this season.
Yeah, overall though his improved shooting probably made up for the first two aspects.

The drop off in his defense was more problematic.

Opposing PG production hard to disentangle that from Terry being in the starting line up. Terry would go on the weakest offensive threat the other team had (if they had a Bogans type), or the PG if none really fit the bill.

Not true. For example, Terry was the player guarding Monta Ellis.

We usually didn't do any cross matching, Terry stayed with SGs and Rondo with PGs, when logic should've dictated the should've switched assignments most of the time.

  I remember Rondo generally playing the  tougher assignment when he was in with Terry. Switching assignments was fairly typical earlier this year (and late this year with Bradley playing).

When he was on the floor with Rondo, very rarely did they put Terry on the PG assignment. I really can't recall an instance in which Rondo's assignment was not the PG. I do recall though screaming for Doc to constantly change the assignments as Terry was simply overmatched by SGs, and Doc refused to put Rondo on them.

Of course, a play here and there, a pick is set and they switched in those instances, but I can't recall a game in which Doc assigned Terry to the PG while Rondo was on the floor.

In fact, I give credit to the improvement to Terry's defense specifically to finally him guarding PGs rather than SGs.

Edit: But the Bogans point above is completely true, but nothing to do with Rondo though. That one has more to do with Pierce on Joe Johnson than anything.

  Off the top of my head I know Rondo spent much of the opening game guarding Wade. He also spent a lot of time guarding Harden when we were in Houston, he spent much of at least one of the Bucks games on Ellis, he spent much of at least 1 game on Hamilton, he guarded Stuckey a lot instead of Knight.

Re: Mindblowing Rondo statistic.
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2013, 11:12:37 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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I remember during the offseason when Rondo was galavanting all over the world, I asked why he was not working on his game and I was slammed. Owell

Re: Mindblowing Rondo statistic.
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2013, 11:22:00 PM »

Online BballTim

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I remember during the offseason when Rondo was galavanting all over the world, I asked why he was not working on his game and I was slammed. Owell

  He seems to have improved his jumper quite a bit, I'd wonder how many players on the Celts saw bigger improvements to their game from last year.

Re: Mindblowing Rondo statistic.
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2013, 11:34:20 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Up to the point where Rondo got injured, he was not having his best year.



It happens. 


It doesn't mean it is a trend.
Actually, I think statistically he WAS having his best year, wasn't he?

He shot better.


But his assist to TO ratio was worse. 


He was foul rate was up.  And other teams PGs were having better luck this season.
Yeah, overall though his improved shooting probably made up for the first two aspects.

The drop off in his defense was more problematic.

Opposing PG production hard to disentangle that from Terry being in the starting line up. Terry would go on the weakest offensive threat the other team had (if they had a Bogans type), or the PG if none really fit the bill.

Not true. For example, Terry was the player guarding Monta Ellis.

We usually didn't do any cross matching, Terry stayed with SGs and Rondo with PGs, when logic should've dictated the should've switched assignments most of the time.

  I remember Rondo generally playing the  tougher assignment when he was in with Terry. Switching assignments was fairly typical earlier this year (and late this year with Bradley playing).

When he was on the floor with Rondo, very rarely did they put Terry on the PG assignment. I really can't recall an instance in which Rondo's assignment was not the PG. I do recall though screaming for Doc to constantly change the assignments as Terry was simply overmatched by SGs, and Doc refused to put Rondo on them.

Of course, a play here and there, a pick is set and they switched in those instances, but I can't recall a game in which Doc assigned Terry to the PG while Rondo was on the floor.

In fact, I give credit to the improvement to Terry's defense specifically to finally him guarding PGs rather than SGs.

Edit: But the Bogans point above is completely true, but nothing to do with Rondo though. That one has more to do with Pierce on Joe Johnson than anything.

  Off the top of my head I know Rondo spent much of the opening game guarding Wade. He also spent a lot of time guarding Harden when we were in Houston, he spent much of at least one of the Bucks games on Ellis, he spent much of at least 1 game on Hamilton, he guarded Stuckey a lot instead of Knight.

I'm pretty sure Wade played plenty of PG minutes in that game, and I think Wade was guarding Rondo in turn.

Houston was one of the few games I didn't manage to watch.

Don't see the point of mentioning Stuckey and Knight, Knight is a better offensive player at the moment, and starting ahead of Stuckey, and having a more succesful season so far. Plus, Stuckey plays PG too.

Hamilton I don't recall the circumstances exactly. He was destroying everyone in the post if I recall correctly, so it could've been just a matter of trying something different.

In any case, the point in all of this is that there was never a plan to put Rondo on the toughest match-up, on the best offensive player. Did he occasionally end up doing so? Sure, but that's true for just about everyone in the league and the team.

It's not like when you put Bradley in there who pretty much automatically either goes to the biggest threat, or goes to the PG to disrupt the offense. That wasn't the dynamic being played when Rondo and Terry were together.

Re: Mindblowing Rondo statistic.
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2013, 11:51:22 PM »

Offline ejk3489

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I remember during the offseason when Rondo was galavanting all over the world, I asked why he was not working on his game and I was slammed. Owell

By gallivanting all over the world you mean organizing team workouts in LA to help the new guys (Lee/Terry) get used to the Celtics system, right?

Re: Mindblowing Rondo statistic.
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2013, 12:11:43 AM »

Offline Clench123

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You're comparing stats of a full season to a stat of a half season.  That doesn't make any sense

Re: Mindblowing Rondo statistic.
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2013, 12:28:09 AM »

Offline Kane3387

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Rondo is ever the enigma.

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Re: Mindblowing Rondo statistic.
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2013, 12:58:38 AM »

Online Eddie20

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Well, without Rondo dominating the ball we are looking much better offensively. Everyone is much more involved, there is much better ball movement, and we've become much harder to defend.

Judging from the comments below, is there any doubt that Zach Lowe's comment about Lee was probably true?


Quote
"We're just moving the ball a lot more, getting everybody involved," Courtney Lee said. "Rondo, he was primary play-maker, so he would make plays for everybody else and he would rack up assists. But with the personnel, everybody else's  game is more of a move, catch & attack and playing in sets. So that's what we've been able to do.

Re: Mindblowing Rondo statistic.
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2013, 08:15:02 AM »

Online BballTim

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Up to the point where Rondo got injured, he was not having his best year.



It happens. 


It doesn't mean it is a trend.
Actually, I think statistically he WAS having his best year, wasn't he?

He shot better.


But his assist to TO ratio was worse. 


He was foul rate was up.  And other teams PGs were having better luck this season.
Yeah, overall though his improved shooting probably made up for the first two aspects.

The drop off in his defense was more problematic.

Opposing PG production hard to disentangle that from Terry being in the starting line up. Terry would go on the weakest offensive threat the other team had (if they had a Bogans type), or the PG if none really fit the bill.

Not true. For example, Terry was the player guarding Monta Ellis.

We usually didn't do any cross matching, Terry stayed with SGs and Rondo with PGs, when logic should've dictated the should've switched assignments most of the time.

  I remember Rondo generally playing the  tougher assignment when he was in with Terry. Switching assignments was fairly typical earlier this year (and late this year with Bradley playing).

When he was on the floor with Rondo, very rarely did they put Terry on the PG assignment. I really can't recall an instance in which Rondo's assignment was not the PG. I do recall though screaming for Doc to constantly change the assignments as Terry was simply overmatched by SGs, and Doc refused to put Rondo on them.

Of course, a play here and there, a pick is set and they switched in those instances, but I can't recall a game in which Doc assigned Terry to the PG while Rondo was on the floor.

In fact, I give credit to the improvement to Terry's defense specifically to finally him guarding PGs rather than SGs.

Edit: But the Bogans point above is completely true, but nothing to do with Rondo though. That one has more to do with Pierce on Joe Johnson than anything.

  Off the top of my head I know Rondo spent much of the opening game guarding Wade. He also spent a lot of time guarding Harden when we were in Houston, he spent much of at least one of the Bucks games on Ellis, he spent much of at least 1 game on Hamilton, he guarded Stuckey a lot instead of Knight.

I'm pretty sure Wade played plenty of PG minutes in that game, and I think Wade was guarding Rondo in turn.

Houston was one of the few games I didn't manage to watch.

Don't see the point of mentioning Stuckey and Knight, Knight is a better offensive player at the moment, and starting ahead of Stuckey, and having a more succesful season so far. Plus, Stuckey plays PG too.

Hamilton I don't recall the circumstances exactly. He was destroying everyone in the post if I recall correctly, so it could've been just a matter of trying something different.

In any case, the point in all of this is that there was never a plan to put Rondo on the toughest match-up, on the best offensive player. Did he occasionally end up doing so? Sure, but that's true for just about everyone in the league and the team.

It's not like when you put Bradley in there who pretty much automatically either goes to the biggest threat, or goes to the PG to disrupt the offense. That wasn't the dynamic being played when Rondo and Terry were together.

  Chalmers played 36 minutes opening night. I can remember watching long stretches of plenty of games where we were cross-matching assignments because Rondo was covering the sg and not the pg. There were games where Rondo started out guarding the sg and games where Rondo would switch to cover the hot player.

Re: Mindblowing Rondo statistic.
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2013, 08:23:39 AM »

Offline scaryjerry

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Well, without Rondo dominating the ball we are looking much better offensively. Everyone is much more involved, there is much better ball movement, and we've become much harder to defend.

Judging from the comments below, is there any doubt that Zach Lowe's comment about Lee was probably true?


Quote
"We're just moving the ball a lot more, getting everybody involved," Courtney Lee said. "Rondo, he was primary play-maker, so he would make plays for everybody else and he would rack up assists. But with the personnel, everybody else's  game is more of a move, catch & attack and playing in sets. So that's what we've been able to do.


Until lee can put the team on his back in the playoffs and average a triple double...don't care. I think we're better without sully to because now bass is engaged and playing better, Collins too ::)

Re: Mindblowing Rondo statistic.
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2013, 08:25:27 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Up to the point where Rondo got injured, he was not having his best year.



It happens. 


It doesn't mean it is a trend.
Actually, I think statistically he WAS having his best year, wasn't he?

He shot better.


But his assist to TO ratio was worse. 


He was foul rate was up.  And other teams PGs were having better luck this season.
Yeah, overall though his improved shooting probably made up for the first two aspects.

The drop off in his defense was more problematic.

Opposing PG production hard to disentangle that from Terry being in the starting line up. Terry would go on the weakest offensive threat the other team had (if they had a Bogans type), or the PG if none really fit the bill.

Not true. For example, Terry was the player guarding Monta Ellis.

We usually didn't do any cross matching, Terry stayed with SGs and Rondo with PGs, when logic should've dictated the should've switched assignments most of the time.

  I remember Rondo generally playing the  tougher assignment when he was in with Terry. Switching assignments was fairly typical earlier this year (and late this year with Bradley playing).

When he was on the floor with Rondo, very rarely did they put Terry on the PG assignment. I really can't recall an instance in which Rondo's assignment was not the PG. I do recall though screaming for Doc to constantly change the assignments as Terry was simply overmatched by SGs, and Doc refused to put Rondo on them.

Of course, a play here and there, a pick is set and they switched in those instances, but I can't recall a game in which Doc assigned Terry to the PG while Rondo was on the floor.

In fact, I give credit to the improvement to Terry's defense specifically to finally him guarding PGs rather than SGs.

Edit: But the Bogans point above is completely true, but nothing to do with Rondo though. That one has more to do with Pierce on Joe Johnson than anything.

  Off the top of my head I know Rondo spent much of the opening game guarding Wade. He also spent a lot of time guarding Harden when we were in Houston, he spent much of at least one of the Bucks games on Ellis, he spent much of at least 1 game on Hamilton, he guarded Stuckey a lot instead of Knight.

I'm pretty sure Wade played plenty of PG minutes in that game, and I think Wade was guarding Rondo in turn.

Houston was one of the few games I didn't manage to watch.

Don't see the point of mentioning Stuckey and Knight, Knight is a better offensive player at the moment, and starting ahead of Stuckey, and having a more succesful season so far. Plus, Stuckey plays PG too.

Hamilton I don't recall the circumstances exactly. He was destroying everyone in the post if I recall correctly, so it could've been just a matter of trying something different.

In any case, the point in all of this is that there was never a plan to put Rondo on the toughest match-up, on the best offensive player. Did he occasionally end up doing so? Sure, but that's true for just about everyone in the league and the team.

It's not like when you put Bradley in there who pretty much automatically either goes to the biggest threat, or goes to the PG to disrupt the offense. That wasn't the dynamic being played when Rondo and Terry were together.

  Chalmers played 36 minutes opening night. I can remember watching long stretches of plenty of games where we were cross-matching assignments because Rondo was covering the sg and not the pg. There were games where Rondo started out guarding the sg and games where Rondo would switch to cover the hot player.

Yes, he played 36 minutes, Norris Cole played 6, who took on the rest of the minutes? Well that was Wade.

 

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