Author Topic: Bradley & Lee  (Read 2781 times)

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Re: Bradley & Lee
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2013, 09:14:07 PM »

Offline action781

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Defense is dandy. Except, we need to prove we have a guy who can take the ball across center court without tripping over his own legs. And preferably taking less than 10 seconds to get us into an offensive set.

Take 10 seconds to get it over and pass it off vs. get it over in 3 seconds then dribble the ball in place for 7 seconds makes no difference to me.

In the last two games, I haven't seen us have more problems getting a quality shot off before the last seconds in the shot clock than I did with Rondo at point.  That might happen eventually, but until that happens, I have no problem with our current ball handling.
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Re: Bradley & Lee
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2013, 09:59:10 PM »

Offline FatjohnReturns

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We will miss a lot by not having Rondo on the floor. But one area I think we gain big time is with the perimeter D that Bradley and Lee play;

1. They take no plays off on D
2. Bradley can bully point guards rather than get banged up by bigger twos every game.
3. Lee is a better fit defensively for most twos and though a bit smallish, he's generally quicker than them.

I love Rondo but one of the biggest things that bothered me about his game is that he often times played disinterested, matador D and his man waltzed by him a lot, with generally very negative consequences for our overall team D.


  People here are wildly overstating any issues on defense Rondo has.

Are you serious? Rondo is a terrible defender. I feel bad about the injury but ive been waiting for 4 years to see this team play without Rondo. I always thought it would come from a trade.

This team will be be better off without Rondo. Addition by Subtraction and by the end of the season it will be obvious to everyone.

Lee and Bradley are like a breath of fresh air. Advancing the ball with the pass,running hard and good perimeter defense. Tommy loved it.


« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 10:04:51 PM by FatjohnReturns »

Re: Bradley & Lee
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2013, 10:55:32 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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Yeah FatJohnReturns, I agree regarding Rondo's D.

There is no questions Rondo can be an elite defender, when he wants to...

The problem I have is that he seems very lackadaisical a large part of the time on D. I watched a one play in a recent game where I think the kid "Ivan" from Atlanta was barreling up the court and Rondo could easily have made him pick up his dribble but instead he let the guy go by him and then tried to reach around for a steal. Result - dunk or something at the rim.

101 says "stop the ball"...

Anyway, I know some people say he's moving his man towards the help in the half court by letting them go by. What I see is a lot of easy baskets because of it.

Bradley and Lee first and foremost try like hell to saty in front of their guys and if they do get beat or picked off by a screen, they then try like hell to catch up to their man.

Generally once a guy blows by Rondo, he's usually not exhausting himself pursuing them  and trying to catch up.
   
The most frustrating part of it is that he's fully capable of playing elite D any time he wants.

if he dedicated himself to the defensive end of the floor like KG does, he "would be" the best all around point guard in the league, period.

And I don't buy that he has to conserve his energy. It's been the same when he's had no one behind him versus this year when he's had 3 legit back ups in Bradley, Barbosa and Terry...

I'm not saying he's a "horrible" defender, but his effort and grit on that side of the ball, in comparison to Bradley, Lee, KG and Pierce is pathetic. 

Re: Bradley & Lee
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2013, 11:26:27 PM »

Online BballTim

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Defense is dandy. Except, we need to prove we have a guy who can take the ball across center court without tripping over his own legs. And preferably taking less than 10 seconds to get us into an offensive set.

Take 10 seconds to get it over and pass it off vs. get it over in 3 seconds then dribble the ball in place for 7 seconds makes no difference to me.

In the last two games, I haven't seen us have more problems getting a quality shot off before the last seconds in the shot clock than I did with Rondo at point.  That might happen eventually, but until that happens, I have no problem with our current ball handling.

  Ignoring the end of game shot clock violation like the one vs the Kings, we had 24 shot clock violations in our first 43 games and we've had 4 in the last two games. The fact that you didn't notice it doesn't seem to mean it isn't happening.

Re: Bradley & Lee
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2013, 11:49:56 PM »

Online BballTim

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Yeah FatJohnReturns, I agree regarding Rondo's D.

There is no questions Rondo can be an elite defender, when he wants to...

The problem I have is that he seems very lackadaisical a large part of the time on D. I watched a one play in a recent game where I think the kid "Ivan" from Atlanta was barreling up the court and Rondo could easily have made him pick up his dribble but instead he let the guy go by him and then tried to reach around for a steal. Result - dunk or something at the rim.

101 says "stop the ball"...

  Just curious, but how far from the basket was the play? Ivan's got about 7 inches and 60 pounds on Rondo, if he's barreling up the court towards Rondo I don't see a lot of good things happening if Rondo tries to "stop the ball".

Anyway, I know some people say he's moving his man towards the help in the half court by letting them go by. What I see is a lot of easy baskets because of it.

  There were a lot of easy baskets earlier in the year because the (mainly) newer players weren't rotating when they should.

And I don't buy that he has to conserve his energy. It's been the same when he's had no one behind him versus this year when he's had 3 legit back ups in Bradley, Barbosa and Terry...

  Whether you buy it or not, Rondo's playing a career high in minutes this year, legit backups or not. In fact he's had to struggle through injuries and play big minutes when he was clearly slowed from those injuries, just like in years past.

  And yes, I know, he probably played quite a bit of "lazy defense" when he was hobbling around on the court.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 12:01:13 AM by BballTim »

Re: Bradley & Lee
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2013, 12:12:50 AM »

Offline action781

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Defense is dandy. Except, we need to prove we have a guy who can take the ball across center court without tripping over his own legs. And preferably taking less than 10 seconds to get us into an offensive set.

Take 10 seconds to get it over and pass it off vs. get it over in 3 seconds then dribble the ball in place for 7 seconds makes no difference to me.

In the last two games, I haven't seen us have more problems getting a quality shot off before the last seconds in the shot clock than I did with Rondo at point.  That might happen eventually, but until that happens, I have no problem with our current ball handling.

  Ignoring the end of game shot clock violation like the one vs the Kings, we had 24 shot clock violations in our first 43 games and we've had 4 in the last two games. The fact that you didn't notice it doesn't seem to mean it isn't happening.

My count has 3 shot clock violations in 2 games (more like 2.5 if were considering the OTs and intensity of Miami) if we're ignoring the one at the end of the SAC game.  Maybe I'm missing one, I dunno.  I'm typically a numbers guy, but my point here wasn't particularly about violations, it was about the quality of shot (which is certainly more subjective).  Rondo has shot more 3pta this season (1.3 per game) than any time in his career.  And I think the reason for this increase is because Rondo has to jack it up more at the end of the shot clock because we're sometimes unable to find a quality shot in the first 21 seconds of the possession.  I noticed this quite a bit in games previously and have noticed it less in the last two games.  It really will take more time to tell for sure though since its only been 2 games.
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Tony Parker, Courtney Lee, Rudy Gay, Zach Randolph, Marc Gasol
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Kemba Walker, Andres Nocioni, Jason Collins

Re: Bradley & Lee
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2013, 12:45:22 AM »

Offline wahz

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We will miss a lot by not having Rondo on the floor. But one area I think we gain big time is with the perimeter D that Bradley and Lee play;

1. They take no plays off on D
2. Bradley can bully point guards rather than get banged up by bigger twos every game.
3. Lee is a better fit defensively for most twos and though a bit smallish, he's generally quicker than them.

I love Rondo but one of the biggest things that bothered me about his game is that he often times played disinterested, matador D and his man waltzed by him a lot, with generally very negative consequences for our overall team D.

I'm interested to see if Bradley and Lee can sustain the effort and if they can get some real rhythm together defensively. If they can it could go a long way towards us becoming a lock down team defensively again.

Now, if we only had a young 7 foot center to play along side of KG as the second line of defense after bradley and Lee's harassing perimeter D.  :)

It would be great if Melo were ready...   

If we play something like .700 ball from now on, we are going to all know that a lot of the instincts that a huge number of posters here was right: Rondo WAS playing matador d, on a team that had spotty defense near the bucket. So much for high bb iq. I just don't understand how he couldn't have known.

Meanwhile, KG is still great at man to man but also help d. So if penetration is slowed down by solid perimeter d, KG can get to where he needs to be. As we see now, Sully has been solid on d and Green is also a good perimeter defender.

If we can avoid further injuries I think we can win 48 games. I don't know if Rajon was going to snap out of it but he wasn't going to soon enough for the team to flourish in the regular season

Re: Bradley & Lee
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2013, 12:59:52 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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PG by committee. All 4 mentioned are capable ball handlers. Offense far less stagnant right now. Pierce can take on PG duties as needed. We have two HOFers we can run our offense through on any given possession.

Re: Bradley & Lee
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2013, 01:11:03 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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I just want to ask one of the many posters who are appalled by Rondo's defense to name an elite offensive NBA point guard who you think plays lock down perimeter defense?

I have frequently asked this question when folks rail about Rondo's "lazy" defense, but nobody ever has a reasonable response.  There's a reason that opposing NBA coaches vote Rondo to the NBA all defensive team every year.  It's because he's a premier defender in the league at his position. 

Opposing NBA point guards get into the lane.  That's almost unavoidable.  There are too many picks set and these guys (even the non-elite ones) are simply too good with the ball in their hands to not be able to utilize screens and get into the lane. 

Rondo, unlike many NBA point guards, however, is always a threat to make a defensive play, whether the opposing point guard is in the lane or not.  That's what makes him elite defensively. 

 


Re: Bradley & Lee
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2013, 01:35:32 AM »

Online manl_lui

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I love how they kept D-Wade on check simultaneously

Wade scored 20, but he was 6-20 with 6 TOs...thats solid D in my opinion

Re: Bradley & Lee
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2013, 01:59:46 AM »

Offline ejk3489

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We will miss a lot by not having Rondo on the floor. But one area I think we gain big time is with the perimeter D that Bradley and Lee play;

1. They take no plays off on D
2. Bradley can bully point guards rather than get banged up by bigger twos every game.
3. Lee is a better fit defensively for most twos and though a bit smallish, he's generally quicker than them.

I love Rondo but one of the biggest things that bothered me about his game is that he often times played disinterested, matador D and his man waltzed by him a lot, with generally very negative consequences for our overall team D.

I'm interested to see if Bradley and Lee can sustain the effort and if they can get some real rhythm together defensively. If they can it could go a long way towards us becoming a lock down team defensively again.

Now, if we only had a young 7 foot center to play along side of KG as the second line of defense after bradley and Lee's harassing perimeter D.  :)

It would be great if Melo were ready...   

If we play something like .700 ball from now on, we are going to all know that a lot of the instincts that a huge number of posters here was right: Rondo WAS playing matador d, on a team that had spotty defense near the bucket. So much for high bb iq. I just don't understand how he couldn't have known.

Meanwhile, KG is still great at man to man but also help d. So if penetration is slowed down by solid perimeter d, KG can get to where he needs to be. As we see now, Sully has been solid on d and Green is also a good perimeter defender.

If we can avoid further injuries I think we can win 48 games. I don't know if Rajon was going to snap out of it but he wasn't going to soon enough for the team to flourish in the regular season

You think the Celtics can go 26 and 11 with 20 road games left and 10 back to backs? They're terrible away from home (7-14), so at best they'd maybe win half...that's already 10 losses right there. They also play a lot of good teams; half are against the Clippers, Bulls, Nuggets (2), Warriors, Thunder, Heat (2), Grizzlies, Knicks (2), Pacers (2), Nets, Hawks (2), and Portland.

Sorry, I don't see it happening. I'd love to be wrong though...

Re: Bradley & Lee
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2013, 02:07:09 AM »

Online ImShakHeIsShaq

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I love how they kept D-Wade on check simultaneously

Wade scored 20, but he was 6-20 with 6 TOs...thats solid D in my opinion

No sir, he did not... he had only 17pts! ;)
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Re: Bradley & Lee
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2013, 03:56:19 AM »

Offline dmopower

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Were not saying Rondo can't play great D.  Were saying he plays hard D only when HE feels like it. I would have to question the Bball IQ of anyone that disagrees with what the majority of posters in this thread are saying. It's obvious.

 I love the guy also which is what p---es me off so much about it.

 And to the poster looking for a star point that plays, played D all of the time. John Stockton comes to mind. Oscar Robinson as well. Yes they are throw backs.
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Re: Bradley & Lee
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2013, 08:55:36 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Were not saying Rondo can't play great D.  Were saying he plays hard D only when HE feels like it. I would have to question the Bball IQ of anyone that disagrees with what the majority of posters in this thread are saying. It's obvious.

 I love the guy also which is what p---es me off so much about it.

 And to the poster looking for a star point that plays, played D all of the time. John Stockton comes to mind. Oscar Robinson as well. Yes they are throw backs.

I question the basketball IQ of someone who bases his opinions and observations solely on what the majority have to say. 

I find it highly amusing that the best you could do was to compare Rondo negatively to a couple of Hall of Famers who played in previous decades. 

I'll have to re-phrase my question.  What star point guards playing today do you consider to play lock down defense?

I ask this not to call out point guards.  I'm not claiming that Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Tony Parker, Deron Williams, Derrick Rose, Kyrie Irving, and Steph Curry are all lazy players, but rather I'm trying to point out that it's virtually impossible to be a full time elite, offensive minded point guard and play lock down defense for 35 plus minutes a game over the course of an NBA season. 

Rondo is being judged by a different standard than anyone else.  I'm just trying to point that out. 
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 09:13:14 AM by Celtics18 »

Re: Bradley & Lee
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2013, 09:53:40 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Defense is dandy. Except, we need to prove we have a guy who can take the ball across center court without tripping over his own legs. And preferably taking less than 10 seconds to get us into an offensive set.

Take 10 seconds to get it over and pass it off vs. get it over in 3 seconds then dribble the ball in place for 7 seconds makes no difference to me.

In the last two games, I haven't seen us have more problems getting a quality shot off before the last seconds in the shot clock than I did with Rondo at point.  That might happen eventually, but until that happens, I have no problem with our current ball handling.
Not really the same, when the play is getting someone open off the ball. When you take 10 seconds before you even start running a play, we have an issue.
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