Author Topic: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj  (Read 2949 times)

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Offline Chris

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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2013, 03:20:37 PM »

He may also be a supporter of Chris Wallace.  I've always gotten had the suspicion that Woj might have a bit of a pro-Celtics bias and this extends to having favorable views of front office personnel with Celtics ties such as Wallace and Daryl Morey and perhaps an unfavorable view of someone like Hollinger if he shares the belief of some in this forum that Hollinger had an anti-Celtics bias.


This is an interesting point.  And the part about Wallace being on the outs and Hollinger running the show does sound like it might be coming from Wallace. 

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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2013, 03:25:43 PM »
Well, if the Memphis trade was purely about economics, why didn't the Griz ask to take Corey Maggette back (expiring) instead of Prince (3 years, $22 million)?
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Offline masteremile123

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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2013, 03:44:34 PM »
Detroit took calderon for his expiring contract , so giving up magette (expiring) for calderon (expiring) will be a moot point . Memphis probably asked for magette , detroit declined , they took prince ...

Offline Chris

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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2013, 04:00:44 PM »
Detroit took calderon for his expiring contract , so giving up magette (expiring) for calderon (expiring) will be a moot point . Memphis probably asked for magette , detroit declined , they took prince ...

I doubt this.  Memphis wanted Prince, because they still wanted to win this year, but they thought they could replace Gay's impact with a much smaller salary slot.  Maggette is cooked, but Prince is still a very good starting quality SF. 

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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2013, 04:07:11 PM »
Detroit took calderon for his expiring contract , so giving up magette (expiring) for calderon (expiring) will be a moot point . Memphis probably asked for magette , detroit declined , they took prince ...

I doubt this.  Memphis wanted Prince, because they still wanted to win this year, but they thought they could replace Gay's impact with a much smaller salary slot.  Maggette is cooked, but Prince is still a very good starting quality SF.

That's the way I saw it.

If it were purely an economically driven decision, Memphis would have kept Calderon or tried to flip him for the expiring contract of Maggette, who would slot into Gay's vacant position.
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Offline Chris

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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2013, 04:14:25 PM »
Detroit took calderon for his expiring contract , so giving up magette (expiring) for calderon (expiring) will be a moot point . Memphis probably asked for magette , detroit declined , they took prince ...

I doubt this.  Memphis wanted Prince, because they still wanted to win this year, but they thought they could replace Gay's impact with a much smaller salary slot.  Maggette is cooked, but Prince is still a very good starting quality SF.

That's the way I saw it.

If it were purely an economically driven decision, Memphis would have kept Calderon or tried to flip him for the expiring contract of Maggette, who would slot into Gay's vacant position.

Right.  Although on the other hand, it is economics, because by trading for the quality players, they have maintained their likelyhood of going deep into the playoffs, which will give them a lot more revenues this year, and with season ticket renewals for next year, that they wouldn't have gotten if they just kept Calderon.

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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2013, 04:24:07 PM »
It's already been said, but this seems way too agenda-driven (what the heck does this have to do with LeBron coming back to Cleveland?).  Memphis did this for salary purposes but they got some pieces that fit well and didn't hurt their status as a fringe contender much if at all.

It feels like Woj already had the article written and shoehorned the trade in to claim proof of his vague, nebulous premise and get a shot in at Hollinger at the same time.

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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2013, 04:27:10 PM »
I don't know.  I think Prince is a significant upgrade defensively (and that is where they win games anyways), and can stretch the defense as well as Gay, to open up the floor for Randolph, Conley, and Gasol.  Davis also is a very valuable piece coming off the bench that they didn't have before.

You may be right defensively, but Prince at his peak wasn't the offensive player Gay is now and Prince has clearly been on the decline the last couple of seasons.

Let's put it this way.  Imagine if Rondo were healthy ,and Ainge traded Pierce and the best player he got back was Prince.

Mike

Offline Chris

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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2013, 04:36:52 PM »
I don't know.  I think Prince is a significant upgrade defensively (and that is where they win games anyways), and can stretch the defense as well as Gay, to open up the floor for Randolph, Conley, and Gasol.  Davis also is a very valuable piece coming off the bench that they didn't have before.

You may be right defensively, but Prince at his peak wasn't the offensive player Gay is now and Prince has clearly been on the decline the last couple of seasons.

Let's put it this way.  Imagine if Rondo were healthy ,and Ainge traded Pierce and the best player he got back was Prince.

Mike

Gay is addition by subtraction offensively, because his shots are just taking away better shots for Randolph, Gasol, and Conley. 

For that team, the ideal SF is just a 3 point shooter, who can make teams pay for crowding the paint, and thats exactly what Prince is.

Offline Boris Badenov

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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2013, 05:02:11 PM »
I don't know.  I think Prince is a significant upgrade defensively (and that is where they win games anyways), and can stretch the defense as well as Gay, to open up the floor for Randolph, Conley, and Gasol.  Davis also is a very valuable piece coming off the bench that they didn't have before.

You may be right defensively, but Prince at his peak wasn't the offensive player Gay is now and Prince has clearly been on the decline the last couple of seasons.

Let's put it this way.  Imagine if Rondo were healthy ,and Ainge traded Pierce and the best player he got back was Prince.

Mike

Gay is addition by subtraction offensively, because his shots are just taking away better shots for Randolph, Gasol, and Conley. 

For that team, the ideal SF is just a 3 point shooter, who can make teams pay for crowding the paint, and thats exactly what Prince is.

This is what I was thinking.

Also, in the event that Memphis does make a run, having Allen and Prince to defend the perimeter against the Durants, Jameses, Anthonys etc. of the world is much better. Heck, Daye is a pretty good defender too.

And, the Speights deal has a much lower downside with Davis on board.

I don't get the Woj argument at all. I think there is a legitimate argument that Memphis is a more well-constructed team now. And they saved money.

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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2013, 05:26:25 PM »

Let's put it this way.  Imagine if Rondo were healthy ,and Ainge traded Pierce and the best player he got back was Prince.

Mike

That's actually a really interesting question.

In return for Gay and Haddadi, Memphis got Prince, Ed Davis, and Austin Daye.

If Boston gave up Pierce and Jason Collins for those three, how would people feel? (I don't think the numbers work financially, but assume they did.)
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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2013, 05:52:13 PM »

Let's put it this way.  Imagine if Rondo were healthy ,and Ainge traded Pierce and the best player he got back was Prince.

Mike

That's actually a really interesting question.

In return for Gay and Haddadi, Memphis got Prince, Ed Davis, and Austin Daye.

If Boston gave up Pierce and Jason Collins for those three, how would people feel? (I don't think the numbers work financially, but assume they did.)

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Offline celtsfan84

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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2013, 05:53:43 PM »
I don't know.  I think Prince is a significant upgrade defensively (and that is where they win games anyways), and can stretch the defense as well as Gay, to open up the floor for Randolph, Conley, and Gasol.  Davis also is a very valuable piece coming off the bench that they didn't have before.

You may be right defensively, but Prince at his peak wasn't the offensive player Gay is now and Prince has clearly been on the decline the last couple of seasons.

Let's put it this way.  Imagine if Rondo were healthy ,and Ainge traded Pierce and the best player he got back was Prince.

Mike

When making this comparison, let's keep in mind that this year, Pierce is outscoring Gay, shooting a better percentage, getting to the line more often, outrebounding Gay, is a much better passer, and is a much better defender.

Look up the stats, the 2012-13 version of Paul Pierce is outperforming the 2012-13 version of Rudy Gay in every possible metric.

Let's also keep in mind that Gay's poor outside shooting doesn't help Gasol or Randolph at all while Pierce is a perfect complement for KG and Rondo.

I'd be a bit disappointed for that type of return for Pierce, who has a contract with a cheap buyout next season.  I'd be fine with that return for Gay, who has a contract well above his actual performance.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 06:01:31 PM by celtsfan84 »

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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2013, 05:56:58 PM »

Let's put it this way.  Imagine if Rondo were healthy ,and Ainge traded Pierce and the best player he got back was Prince.

Mike

That's actually a really interesting question.

In return for Gay and Haddadi, Memphis got Prince, Ed Davis, and Austin Daye.

If Boston gave up Pierce and Jason Collins for those three, how would people feel? (I don't think the numbers work financially, but assume they did.)
Yeah, but Gay isn't Pierce nor does he have the fan following in Memphis that Pierce has in Boston. Gay is 26 and STILL isn't better than a 35 year old Pierce, though, due to Pierce's decline, that margin between them is getting closer.

If I owned Gay in a fantasy league I would be ecstatic about this trade as Gay now becomes a number one option on a bad team and will probably have a pretty good uptick in his stat line. Of course, Rudy Gay as your number one option on a bad team doesn't make that bad team any better, unfortunately for Toronto.
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Offline relja

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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2013, 06:17:03 PM »
Memphis just decided to tank the season out of pure boredom, huh?

 

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