Author Topic: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj  (Read 3174 times)

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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2013, 02:26:13 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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It's interesting that Woj seems to have such a negative view of the trade.  Personally I think the Grizzlies won the trade handily.  Many other (much  more qualified) people in the media seem to agree with me, too.


I'll be really interested to see to what extent Woj is right.  Is the era of "super friends" over, or will they just be congregating on a handful of rich teams?

I think the era -- to the extent that such an era ever really existed -- of having these "super teams" stay together for long periods of time may be over with the luxury cap penalties.  But I think you'll continue to see these teams form, mainly in the major markets, and star players will give it a go for a few years to see if they can compete, and then the teams will have to be broken up to a lesser or greater extent. 

That's much different than saying, however, that we're going to move back toward a time when more teams had a real "franchise" player and those stars tended to carry the burden of winning playoff series by themselves. 

I think the 2-3 star model for winning championships is going to remain the dominate mode for a while, though every once in a while you'll get a team like the Mavs built around just one guy with just the right combination of really talented supporting players. 

But I don't know if we'll ever see another '04 Pistons style champion.
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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2013, 02:27:51 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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I'll be really interested to see to what extent Woj is right.  Is the era of "super friends" over, or will they just be congregating on a handful of rich teams?

I hope the Celtics can be one of those rich teams. They did just go up to the fourth most valuable NBA team because they landed a big tv deal too.

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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2013, 02:32:03 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Levien is making these deals based largely on the recommendations of John Hollinger, a statistician who worked for a cable sports company. The San Antonio Spurs once used him as a consultant and regretfully took his advice to sign a free agent named Jackie Butler. It was such a disaster, the Spurs had to attach Luis Scola to a trade to get Butler out of town.

Yikes, Woj REALLY doesn't like how the Grizz are doing things.
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Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2013, 02:32:55 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Woj definitely took a shot at Hollinger.

I disagree with his premise that Memphis made a bad deal too.

I agree he gets carried away in his assessment of the deal. Gay was never a perfect fit with Z-Bo, and I think Davis is an excellent young asset. I Prince can annoy on the defensive end and shoot 40% from deep, they've certainly not tanked their season.

Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2013, 02:39:30 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If Woj is right, and he has one of the best grasps on the NBA from a media reporting standpoint, you have to look back and seriously question the crap the owners were throwing out during the lockout about not making profits.

$525 million for the Kings? Are you telling me that sale price doesn't guarantee a profit for the Maloofs who, I am sure, made good money a decade ago when the Kings were relevant.

This Pera is ridiculous. I never like Hollinger's math regarding basketball stats and I disliked his ability to judge talent when just looking at a player or team even less. If this is who Pera is listening to, that team is in trouble.

Also, once the Griz got under the luxury tax there was no reason to trade Gay. You are dumping a chance at winning for a few extra million IN PROFIT because that's what I am sure his team was going to do, make a profit.
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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2013, 02:39:35 PM »

Offline Chris

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I think this was another over the top hatchet job by Wojo.  I will give him credit as the best insider in the business, and a great writer when he doesn't have an agenda...but I just have no taste for these hatchet jobs, where he clearly has an axe to grind (for him, or perhaps for one of his connections), and when he does these, he takes a lot of his theories too far.

For example the Spurs traded Scola to get rid of Butler's contract?  Where did this come from?  They traded Scola because they couldn't afford (or didn't want to pay) what Scola needed to buy himself out of his contract in Europe.  But that doesn't fit with his attack on Hollinger, so he twists it.

I just wish he would stick to breaking news.

Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2013, 02:42:41 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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I think this was another over the top hatchet job by Wojo.  I will give him credit as the best insider in the business, and a great writer when he doesn't have an agenda...but I just have no taste for these hatchet jobs, where he clearly has an axe to grind (for him, or perhaps for one of his connections), and when he does these, he takes a lot of his theories too far.

For example the Spurs traded Scola to get rid of Butler's contract?  Where did this come from?  They traded Scola because they couldn't afford (or didn't want to pay) what Scola needed to buy himself out of his contract in Europe.  But that doesn't fit with his attack on Hollinger, so he twists it.

I just wish he would stick to breaking news.
Yeah they traded Scola because of what his contract would require. The salary dump was only part of that deal.

Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2013, 02:44:42 PM »

Offline MBunge

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It's interesting that Woj seems to have such a negative view of the trade.  Personally I think the Grizzlies won the trade handily. 

There are a lot of different dimensions to consider, but Memphis just traded away their best one-on-one scoring threat.  Maybe some guys can step up and the team play more efficiently in some ways with Gay gone, but Memphis has greatly reduced their offensive firepower.  I just watched Michael Beasley tear up the Lakers in the 4th quarter last night.  The Grizz now don't even have someone as good as the Beas in that department.

Mike

Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2013, 02:46:06 PM »

Offline Chris

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It's interesting that Woj seems to have such a negative view of the trade.  Personally I think the Grizzlies won the trade handily. 

There are a lot of different dimensions to consider, but Memphis just traded away their best one-on-one scoring threat.  Maybe some guys can step up and the team play more efficiently in some ways with Gay gone, but Memphis has greatly reduced their offensive firepower.  I just watched Michael Beasley tear up the Lakers in the 4th quarter last night.  The Grizz now don't even have someone as good as the Beas in that department.

Mike

Well, they have arguably two of the top 5 offensive big men in the league, and a highly underrated PG.  If this trade puts the ball in Randolph and Gasol's hands more, then its a good deal. 

Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2013, 02:46:11 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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I'll be really interested to see to what extent Woj is right.  Is the era of "super friends" over, or will they just be congregating on a handful of rich teams?

Yeah he makes an interesting point for sure. Teams with three superstars will never be able to field a team without hitting the tax hold and they will pay mega for it.

I mean the Clippers will be at around 50 mil with just Jordan, Griffin, and Paul. And Jordan is hardly considered a "big three" type star.

The Nets next year are on the books for Lopez at 15, Johnson at 21, Humphries at 12, Wallace at 10, and Williams at 18.5. I mean thats absurd.

Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2013, 02:46:39 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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If Woj is right, and he has one of the best grasps on the NBA from a media reporting standpoint, you have to look back and seriously question the crap the owners were throwing out during the lockout about not making profits.

$525 million for the Kings? Are you telling me that sale price doesn't guarantee a profit for the Maloofs who, I am sure, made good money a decade ago when the Kings were relevant.

This Pera is ridiculous. I never like Hollinger's math regarding basketball stats and I disliked his ability to judge talent when just looking at a player or team even less. If this is who Pera is listening to, that team is in trouble.

Also, once the Griz got under the luxury tax there was no reason to trade Gay. You are dumping a chance at winning for a few extra million IN PROFIT because that's what I am sure his team was going to do, make a profit.

$16,460, 538

$17,888,932

$19,317,326

Those are the cap hits for Rudy Gay this season and the next two after that.

He is not worth that kind of money.

Yes, the Grizz got under the luxury tax this season.  But given the way his cost is going to increase in the next 2 years, now was a good time to trade him, rather than when other teams know you're desperate to move him and willing to take much less in return.

The Grizz made a deal that will allow them to still be competitive this year and not have to wildly overpay Rudy Gay in the future.  If I were a fan of the Grizz I'd be pretty happy about that.  Rudy Gay is just not THAT good.

Plus, Woj writes this piece as though the '09 Celtics traded away KG.  The Grizzlies are a nice team, and they're among the second tier teams this season in terms of competing for a championship.  I can't fault the Grizz if they came to the conclusion that the Gay / Randolph / Gasol trio had reached its ceiling, wasn't a top contender, and so wasn't worth the amount of money it would cost going forward.
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Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2013, 02:47:36 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I just wish he would stick to breaking news.

I agree.  Woj is great at breaking the news.  I don't particularly care for his opinion pieces.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2013, 02:59:43 PM »

Offline MBunge

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The Grizz made a deal that will allow them to still be competitive this year and not have to wildly overpay Rudy Gay in the future.

Well, they probably could have traded Z-Bo, remained competitive and gotten even more in return.  They're a legitimate title contender this year and it's hard to see how this trade does anything this year except hurt that status.

Mike

Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2013, 03:09:39 PM »

Offline Chris

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The Grizz made a deal that will allow them to still be competitive this year and not have to wildly overpay Rudy Gay in the future.

Well, they probably could have traded Z-Bo, remained competitive and gotten even more in return.  They're a legitimate title contender this year and it's hard to see how this trade does anything this year except hurt that status.

Mike

I don't know.  I think Prince is a significant upgrade defensively (and that is where they win games anyways), and can stretch the defense as well as Gay, to open up the floor for Randolph, Conley, and Gasol.  Davis also is a very valuable piece coming off the bench that they didn't have before.

Re: Good big picture look at recent NBA happenings from Woj
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2013, 03:16:16 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Levien is making these deals based largely on the recommendations of John Hollinger, a statistician who worked for a cable sports company. The San Antonio Spurs once used him as a consultant and regretfully took his advice to sign a free agent named Jackie Butler. It was such a disaster, the Spurs had to attach Luis Scola to a trade to get Butler out of town.

Yikes, Woj REALLY doesn't like how the Grizz are doing things.

I think he hates the salary dump of Speights a lot more than the Rudy Gay trade.

He may also be a supporter of Chris Wallace.  I've always gotten had the suspicion that Woj might have a bit of a pro-Celtics bias and this extends to having favorable views of front office personnel with Celtics ties such as Wallace and Daryl Morey and perhaps an unfavorable view of someone like Hollinger if he shares the belief of some in this forum that Hollinger had an anti-Celtics bias.

If Woj is right, and he has one of the best grasps on the NBA from a media reporting standpoint, you have to look back and seriously question the crap the owners were throwing out during the lockout about not making profits.

Well, duh.  Only a fool would have taken the owners' statements about their financial viability at face value.

It's not about whether this was a good or a bad trade for Memphis.  The problem is that this was a purely financial move that wasn't even done to free up money in the future to put into improving the team.  That it might be good for the Grizzlies on the court is purely incidental.
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