Author Topic: Courtney Lee denies report from Zach Lowe, is happy in Boston?  (Read 4440 times)

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Offline CelticG1

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Re: Courtney Lee denies report from Zach Lowe, is happy in Boston?
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2013, 04:25:37 PM »
Man, imagine the reaction if Tanguay or Washburn broke this "story"

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Re: Courtney Lee denies report from Zach Lowe, is happy in Boston?
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2013, 04:32:00 PM »
The sound  you're hearing right now is nickagneta's retreat. After being so quick to bury him under an avalanche of negative critique about how Lee doesn't have the right to say anything. As it turns out, maybe he never did.
I beg to differ.

My guess is he vented at someone about something and it got to a very credible reporter who reported it. The first thing Lee is going to do to keep things cool in the locker room is say he didn't say it.

If he really didn't, fine.

If he did, shut up, do your job and I hope Danny ships your butt out of town.

I still stand by my hypothesis that there is something about Lee that team's don't like and that's why he's always being shipped out of town. JJ Reddick is basically the same player. Never been traded.

Orlando kept Reddick over Lee. Lousi Williams another SG like Lee, one team for many years before going to Atlanta. Wes Matthews, Gordon Haywood, Danny Green. Young players that have spent most of their careers with one team.

There's a reason for that and there's a reason guys like Lee, Chris Douglas Roberts, Terrence Williams, Jamal Crawford, Marco Belinelli, Willie Green and others bounce all over the place. I think it has to due with personality, coachability, intelligence, and locker room presence.

Heck, look at Orlando. They had Lee and Reddick and decided to keep one and get rid of another in a trade. Why keep Reddick?

That is something that you nor I will ever know.  Maybe Washington had no interest in Reddick?  You can't always choose the guys you send out in a trade.  You may say it was because Lee is not a good teammate, I would say its because the Magic needed to pacify Dwight and acquire a big name player in Vince Carter (and a fairly unknown at the time Ryan Anderson) and Washington wanted the lesser paid and higher potential Courtney Lee in return for him.  It certainly wasn't Rafer Alston or Tony Battie that the Wizards were making the trade around.  No idea who's right... We can only have our own opinions.

Why did NJ trade him away?  This from nba.com:  "Whichever way he decides to go, new general manager Billy King now has great flexibility going forward, and an opportunity to do next summer what New Jersey didn't get done this summer -- sign or trade for a superstar."  This was before they acquired Deron Williams and were trying to do anything possible to get Carmelo to get over the immense failure that was the Summer of 2012.
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Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Re: Courtney Lee denies report from Zach Lowe, is happy in Boston?
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2013, 04:34:27 PM »
The sound  you're hearing right now is nickagneta's retreat. After being so quick to bury him under an avalanche of negative critique about how Lee doesn't have the right to say anything. As it turns out, maybe he never did.
I beg to differ.

My guess is he vented at someone about something and it got to a very credible reporter who reported it. The first thing Lee is going to do to keep things cool in the locker room is say he didn't say it.

If he really didn't, fine.

If he did, shut up, do your job and I hope Danny ships your butt out of town.

I still stand by my hypothesis that there is something about Lee that team's don't like and that's why he's always being shipped out of town. JJ Reddick is basically the same player. Never been traded.

Orlando kept Reddick over Lee. Lousi Williams another SG like Lee, one team for many years before going to Atlanta. Wes Matthews, Gordon Haywood, Danny Green. Young players that have spent most of their careers with one team.

There's a reason for that and there's a reason guys like Lee, Chris Douglas Roberts, Terrence Williams, Jamal Crawford, Marco Belinelli, Willie Green and others bounce all over the place. I think it has to due with personality, coachability, intelligence, and locker room presence.

Heck, look at Orlando. They had Lee and Reddick and decided to keep one and get rid of another in a trade. Why keep Reddick?

Maybe the team Lee was traded to valued him more highly than Reddick (Lee is the better defender)? There are many reasons a person could be traded and it doesn't have to do with personality, the teams who Lee was traded to probably thought he was just what they needed at the time, things change. This last trade (to us) doesn't even count b/c Lee could have gone to another team if he wanted but he chose to do a S&T. We got Lee b/c we needed his services, it wasn't b/c Houston was trying to get rid of him b/c he had a bad attitude, he was a free agent. We haven't heard one thing about him that would suggest he was a problem in any of the ways you mentioned (personality, coachability, intelligence, and locker room presence). People with those problems would have surely been aired out by now... no way Lee has escaped being blasted in the media if he didn't have those problems.


I don't know if Lee said it or not but why does him being traded multiple times mean he is somehow a bad guy/someone who causes problems?
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Re: Courtney Lee denies report from Zach Lowe, is happy in Boston?
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2013, 04:41:32 PM »
This last trade (to us) doesn't even count b/c Lee could have gone to another team if he wanted but he chose to do a S&T.

The first trade doesn't count either because the Nets are morons.
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Online manl_lui

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Re: Courtney Lee denies report from Zach Lowe, is happy in Boston?
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2013, 04:44:34 PM »
Courtney's game may be affected by Rondo's game, true

but that doesn't mean he doesn't like Rondo. I mean its true that Rondo holds the ball too much and too long and a lot of people's games are affected...people who usually create their own shots like Terry, KG, Pierce, Courtney etc

but Rondo did make a lot of people's life easier by his penetrating and passing ie: Jeff Green, Bass and others.

But I doubt Courtney Lee was really unhappy here with Rondo. We have seen him work his butt off day in and day out. His defense was there. His offense was struggling in the beginning of the season, but now its looking better now

As I said in my last thread...don't blow it up, this team can still do damage...

Offline nickagneta

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Re: Courtney Lee denies report from Zach Lowe, is happy in Boston?
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2013, 05:22:17 PM »
Guys deny saying things even when their comments are on tape.  It's standard protocol when it's something controversial.  Maybe Lee didn't say it but it wouldn't surprise me if he did.  I would be most surprised if guys weren't upset with Rondo's ball hogging.  It's never fun playing with a ball hog.


The guy leading the league in assists a ball hog...right! Because Chris Paul doesn't pound the ball...actually wait, he holds the ball the duration of the shot clock before either passing off or shooting. The infallible Chris Paul!

LAC - 4th in the NBA at 1.07ppp
BOS - 26th in the NBA at 0.996ppp

I personally don't care if the ball is pounded, spun on fingers, whatever, all I care about is results and wins.  If I don't like the results, then I look to what's happening during the games for causes.  I personally don't think Rondo's pounding is leading to effective offensive possessions.  If Chris Paul really is pounding like Rondo, somehow he's still making a lot better of it (with what I'd argue is an equal or weaker supporting cast).
Ah, but a cast with a post game and a cast that rebounds the ball on the offensive end. It makes a huge difference.
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Online BballTim

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Re: Courtney Lee denies report from Zach Lowe, is happy in Boston?
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2013, 05:27:39 PM »
Guys deny saying things even when their comments are on tape.  It's standard protocol when it's something controversial.  Maybe Lee didn't say it but it wouldn't surprise me if he did.  I would be most surprised if guys weren't upset with Rondo's ball hogging.  It's never fun playing with a ball hog.


The guy leading the league in assists a ball hog...right! Because Chris Paul doesn't pound the ball...actually wait, he holds the ball the duration of the shot clock before either passing off or shooting. The infallible Chris Paul!

LAC - 4th in the NBA at 1.07ppp
BOS - 26th in the NBA at 0.996ppp

I personally don't care if the ball is pounded, spun on fingers, whatever, all I care about is results and wins.  If I don't like the results, then I look to what's happening during the games for causes.  I personally don't think Rondo's pounding is leading to effective offensive possessions.  If Chris Paul really is pounding like Rondo, somehow he's still making a lot better of it (with what I'd argue is an equal or weaker supporting cast).
Ah, but a cast with a post game and a cast that rebounds the ball on the offensive end. It makes a huge difference.

  I'm still trying to get past "weaker supporting cast". Take Rondo and Paul off of the rosters and I don't know that I'd go with the Celts as the stronger team, especially on offense.

Online Atzar

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Re: Courtney Lee denies report from Zach Lowe, is happy in Boston?
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2013, 05:53:18 PM »
I could see how Rondo's style could grate on some people on this team - Pierce and Terry especially - but I don't see how Lee would be one of them.  He has always been a low-usage player who gets his points on spot-up jumpshots and in transition.  That's exactly how he's been used this year.

Not sure what there would have been to gripe about in his case.  Unless Doc and Danny promised him a larger role in the offense to get him here, which would have been foolish on their part - he's most useful in the role he's played in the last couple of months. 
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Offline ItStaysYang

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Re: Courtney Lee denies report from Zach Lowe, is happy in Boston?
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2013, 06:11:45 PM »
What else is he supposed to say?  Seriously, if guys didn't have gripes about one guy dribbling the ball all the time while playing in an offense ranked 28th in the league, I would worry that they had been lobotomized.

So you'd rather believe the blogger who heard some whispers through "back channels", as opposed to the actual player?  That seems logical.

How quickly we forget that Rondo played a large role in recruiting Lee here to begin with. I'm pretty sure he was familiar with Rondo's playing style before he signed here.

What if it was true?

If so, what would you expect him to say? Nobody wants to own up to looking like a little b-

Offline zimbo

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Re: Courtney Lee denies report from Zach Lowe, is happy in Boston?
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2013, 06:27:38 PM »
Via Scott Souza's twitter https://twitter.com/scott_souza

"#Celtics guard Courtney Lee denies 'report' that he was unhappy playing alongside Rajon Rondo in offense before Rondo's injury."

"#Celtics guard Courtney Lee pointed out he was backing up Rajon Rondo of late, so wasn't playing with him enough to have opinion on matter."

Offline RJ87

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Re: Courtney Lee denies report from Zach Lowe, is happy in Boston?
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2013, 06:33:58 PM »
Guys deny saying things even when their comments are on tape.  It's standard protocol when it's something controversial.  Maybe Lee didn't say it but it wouldn't surprise me if he did.  I would be most surprised if guys weren't upset with Rondo's ball hogging.  It's never fun playing with a ball hog.


The guy leading the league in assists a ball hog...right! Because Chris Paul doesn't pound the ball...actually wait, he holds the ball the duration of the shot clock before either passing off or shooting. The infallible Chris Paul!

LAC - 4th in the NBA at 1.07ppp
BOS - 26th in the NBA at 0.996ppp

I personally don't care if the ball is pounded, spun on fingers, whatever, all I care about is results and wins.  If I don't like the results, then I look to what's happening during the games for causes.  I personally don't think Rondo's pounding is leading to effective offensive possessions.  If Chris Paul really is pounding like Rondo, somehow he's still making a lot better of it (with what I'd argue is an equal or weaker supporting cast).

LAC has a much more versatile roster.  All the offensive weapons they have, it'd be pretty tough for even Vinny Del Negro to screw up.


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Online mmmmm

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Re: Courtney Lee denies report from Zach Lowe, is happy in Boston?
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2013, 06:46:30 PM »
Guys deny saying things even when their comments are on tape.  It's standard protocol when it's something controversial.  Maybe Lee didn't say it but it wouldn't surprise me if he did.  I would be most surprised if guys weren't upset with Rondo's ball hogging.  It's never fun playing with a ball hog.


The guy leading the league in assists a ball hog...right! Because Chris Paul doesn't pound the ball...actually wait, he holds the ball the duration of the shot clock before either passing off or shooting. The infallible Chris Paul!

LAC - 4th in the NBA at 1.07ppp
BOS - 26th in the NBA at 0.996ppp

I personally don't care if the ball is pounded, spun on fingers, whatever, all I care about is results and wins.  If I don't like the results, then I look to what's happening during the games for causes.  I personally don't think Rondo's pounding is leading to effective offensive possessions.  If Chris Paul really is pounding like Rondo, somehow he's still making a lot better of it (with what I'd argue is an equal or weaker supporting cast).
Ah, but a cast with a post game and a cast that rebounds the ball on the offensive end. It makes a huge difference.

Yeah, the interior offensive game makes a HUGE difference.  It is all about attacking the rim.  Something we just don't do, given the big men we have been putting on the floor.

This discussion inspired me to look at some numbers comparing the Celtics' offense to the Clippers' offense:

First, on 'pounding the ball'.   Here is the shot-clock usage of the two teams:
Celtics  Clippers
SecsAtt%eFG%Ast%Pts  Att%eFG%Ast%Pts
0-1037%51.6%58%30.7  39%58.5%60%37.0
11-1525%50.1%68%20.4  23%50.9%65%18.7
16-2024%46.6%68%17.9  22%46.8%62%16.3
21+14%44.1%59%9.8  17%43.7%59%12.0

The 'Att%' is the percentage of shots made that deep into the clock.   As you can see, both teams take shots with a nearly identical shot-clock usage profile.  The big difference is that the Clippers have a huge advantage in eFG% (and thus points) on shots made in the first 10 seconds.  These are probably due to more fast-break and alley-oop plays.

Now, we move on and look at shot-type:
Celtics  Clippers
ShotAtt%eFG%Ast%Pts  Att%eFG%Ast%Pts
Jump71%44.5%70%50.9  68%46.7%65%51.9
Close24%57.5%48%22.3  24%57.6%55%22.7
Dunk3%88.7%74%4.6  5%92.1%72%8.1
Tips1%40.0%0%0.9  2%42.3%0%1.4
All100%49.0%63%78.8  100%51.7%62%84.1

And there it is,plain as day:  The vast bulk of the difference between the two teams' scoring is coming almost entirely on dunks.

I've said it before:  We miss having Wilcox in our offense soooo bad.
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Re: Courtney Lee denies report from Zach Lowe, is happy in Boston?
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2013, 07:41:02 PM »
The sound  you're hearing right now is nickagneta's retreat. After being so quick to bury him under an avalanche of negative critique about how Lee doesn't have the right to say anything. As it turns out, maybe he never did.
I beg to differ.

My guess is he vented at someone about something and it got to a very credible reporter who reported it. The first thing Lee is going to do to keep things cool in the locker room is say he didn't say it.

If he really didn't, fine.

If he did, shut up, do your job and I hope Danny ships your butt out of town.

I still stand by my hypothesis that there is something about Lee that team's don't like and that's why he's always being shipped out of town. JJ Reddick is basically the same player. Never been traded.

Orlando kept Reddick over Lee. Lousi Williams another SG like Lee, one team for many years before going to Atlanta. Wes Matthews, Gordon Haywood, Danny Green. Young players that have spent most of their careers with one team.

There's a reason for that and there's a reason guys like Lee, Chris Douglas Roberts, Terrence Williams, Jamal Crawford, Marco Belinelli, Willie Green and others bounce all over the place. I think it has to due with personality, coachability, intelligence, and locker room presence.

Heck, look at Orlando. They had Lee and Reddick and decided to keep one and get rid of another in a trade. Why keep Reddick?

That is something that you nor I will ever know.  Maybe Washington had no interest in Reddick?  You can't always choose the guys you send out in a trade.  You may say it was because Lee is not a good teammate, I would say its because the Magic needed to pacify Dwight and acquire a big name player in Vince Carter (and a fairly unknown at the time Ryan Anderson) and Washington wanted the lesser paid and higher potential Courtney Lee in return for him.  It certainly wasn't Rafer Alston or Tony Battie that the Wizards were making the trade around.  No idea who's right... We can only have our own opinions.

Why did NJ trade him away?  This from nba.com:  "Whichever way he decides to go, new general manager Billy King now has great flexibility going forward, and an opportunity to do next summer what New Jersey didn't get done this summer -- sign or trade for a superstar."  This was before they acquired Deron Williams and were trying to do anything possible to get Carmelo to get over the immense failure that was the Summer of 2012.

Agreed. I think it's reading WAY too much into supposed comments heard like 4th person. Lee could've been upset at what happened during a particular game we lost. As another poster said, Lee could've been upset at the results of a gameplan and not Rondo himself.

I'm seeing a lot of unnecessary bluster over virtually nothing. We don't know all the circumstances around his movement. Lee is a good player. He's not great, but he's very good and sometimes teams deal from a position of strength to upgrade their roster. It happens sometimes. Why keep Redick? How about "he's cheaper"? Staying with one team for your career doesn't mean anything about your personality, coachability or anything. Ask DeMarcus Cousins, Josh Smith, or Dwight Howard.
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Offline nickagneta

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Re: Courtney Lee denies report from Zach Lowe, is happy in Boston?
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2013, 08:57:59 PM »
The sound  you're hearing right now is nickagneta's retreat. After being so quick to bury him under an avalanche of negative critique about how Lee doesn't have the right to say anything. As it turns out, maybe he never did.
I beg to differ.

My guess is he vented at someone about something and it got to a very credible reporter who reported it. The first thing Lee is going to do to keep things cool in the locker room is say he didn't say it.

If he really didn't, fine.

If he did, shut up, do your job and I hope Danny ships your butt out of town.

I still stand by my hypothesis that there is something about Lee that team's don't like and that's why he's always being shipped out of town. JJ Reddick is basically the same player. Never been traded.

Orlando kept Reddick over Lee. Lousi Williams another SG like Lee, one team for many years before going to Atlanta. Wes Matthews, Gordon Haywood, Danny Green. Young players that have spent most of their careers with one team.

There's a reason for that and there's a reason guys like Lee, Chris Douglas Roberts, Terrence Williams, Jamal Crawford, Marco Belinelli, Willie Green and others bounce all over the place. I think it has to due with personality, coachability, intelligence, and locker room presence.

Heck, look at Orlando. They had Lee and Reddick and decided to keep one and get rid of another in a trade. Why keep Reddick?

That is something that you nor I will ever know.  Maybe Washington had no interest in Reddick?  You can't always choose the guys you send out in a trade.  You may say it was because Lee is not a good teammate, I would say its because the Magic needed to pacify Dwight and acquire a big name player in Vince Carter (and a fairly unknown at the time Ryan Anderson) and Washington wanted the lesser paid and higher potential Courtney Lee in return for him.  It certainly wasn't Rafer Alston or Tony Battie that the Wizards were making the trade around.  No idea who's right... We can only have our own opinions.

Why did NJ trade him away?  This from nba.com:  "Whichever way he decides to go, new general manager Billy King now has great flexibility going forward, and an opportunity to do next summer what New Jersey didn't get done this summer -- sign or trade for a superstar."  This was before they acquired Deron Williams and were trying to do anything possible to get Carmelo to get over the immense failure that was the Summer of 2012.

Agreed. I think it's reading WAY too much into supposed comments heard like 4th person. Lee could've been upset at what happened during a particular game we lost. As another poster said, Lee could've been upset at the results of a gameplan and not Rondo himself.

I'm seeing a lot of unnecessary bluster over virtually nothing. We don't know all the circumstances around his movement. Lee is a good player. He's not great, but he's very good and sometimes teams deal from a position of strength to upgrade their roster. It happens sometimes. Why keep Redick? How about "he's cheaper"? Staying with one team for your career doesn't mean anything about your personality, coachability or anything. Ask DeMarcus Cousins, Josh Smith, or Dwight Howard.
When you have gobs of talent or are a superstar, personality problems, locker room problems, coachability and such are overlooked when it comes time to decide to trade you or not. When you are a middle of the road, role playing talent, such things are not overlooked.

While I might not be right about Lee, let's not start acting that what I just said isn't true. Why is Nate and Baby gone? Personality, coachability and locker room headaches.
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Offline Ersatz

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Re: Courtney Lee denies report from Zach Lowe, is happy in Boston?
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2013, 10:43:11 PM »
Celtics  Clippers
ShotAtt%eFG%Ast%Pts  Att%eFG%Ast%Pts
Jump71%44.5%70%50.9  68%46.7%65%51.9
Close24%57.5%48%22.3  24%57.6%55%22.7
Dunk3%88.7%74%4.6  5%92.1%72%8.1
Tips1%40.0%0%0.9  2%42.3%0%1.4
All100%49.0%63%78.8  100%51.7%62%84.1

And there it is,plain as day:  The vast bulk of the difference between the two teams' scoring is coming almost entirely on dunks.

I've said it before:  We miss having Wilcox in our offense soooo bad.

Another good post. I agree with you that the offense has missed Wilcox, and as tonight showed, he can have a serious impact on our offense.

However, I don't think it can be reduced to just that factor; it's not just that we lack Blake Griffin. It's also that Chris Paul has a much more dynamic game than Rondo. For one, his shooting is more respected than Rondo's. In some ways this is irrational because Rondo is actuallly a better shooter from the 10-20 range, but teams don't fear Rondo from that range like they do Paul, which tends to muck up the spacing and doesn't create those little slices of space that create openings at the hoop. Also, even though Rondo is Paul's equal in making quick decisions and pinpoint passes, he's worse at a perhaps better skill: using hesitations and patience to throw to freeze the defenders. All these things come together in the little elbow postup the Clippers run for Paul. He's so versatile as a shooter and passer, with patience and quickness, that he creates a half dozen or so possibilities for the offense. Rondo doesn't have that yet.

Another factor here, I think, is that Celtics sets often start too far out from the hoop. The Celtics just don't really have plays like Paul's elbow postup that start 15 feet from the basket; they are usually more like 22 feet away.

 

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