Author Topic: Say we do well without Rondo  (Read 3876 times)

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Re: Say we do well without Rondo
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2013, 06:03:18 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Or we'll be even better?

It's the same thing that's going on in Chicago right now. They're doing well right now, absolutely doing well, does it spell doom for Derrick Rose? Knowing that Rose would command the ball as well as Rondo does, should they?
We already KNOW how this team does with Rondo.  We are below .500.  The Chicago example is a bit different in that they are performing worse without Rose than with him. 

What if we actually perform better without Rondo?

Since the end of the '07-'08 season (I'm starting after the championship because Rondo didn't have as large a role offensively that year as he has since), Rondo has played in 320 regular season games and 66 playoff games.  I haven't looked up the W-L record in those games, but I know that it's well above .500. 

Yet you are making a long term determination on whether or not this team is better or worse off without Rondo based on 38 games played this season.  That's fairly short-sighted.

Forget the wins and losses and stats. Actually watch the next 38 games and pay attention. That's enough games to see rather you like the way this team plays without rondo or not.

I am very much hoping that this team can string together enough wins over the remainder of the season to make the playoffs.  I'm also expecting to like the way this team plays.  Then again, I really like the way the team has played with Rondo as their offensive leader over the course of the past four seasons. 

I seem to be in the minority on that these days, though.  Unfortunately, most fans seem to have incredibly short memories and can only remember the last six games that Rondo played in before suffering that terrible knee injury.   

Re: Say we do well without Rondo
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2013, 06:04:59 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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If the Celtics do well without Rondo, the team should go forward under the assumption that the return of a healthy Rondo and the addition of a quality big via the MLE makes this team a contender next season.

I agree with this.

My biggest Cblog nightmare is the team does well over the next 20 games and we are bombarded with how much better we are without Rondo.  In the long run it is far more likely  that this team is way better off with Rajon Rondo than without him.

It seems like alot of people fear the celtics doing well without rondo. I find this to be slightly amusing.

Please note an important distinction: My nightmare isn't the C's doing well;  My nightmare is the likely dominance of 'we are better without Rondo' threads. 

I'll be very glad if C's do well without Rondo. I won't think they are better off without him.

Re: Say we do well without Rondo
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2013, 06:07:57 PM »

Offline Atzar

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Say we do go on a run for the rest of the year and make a little noise in the playoffs.

Who's to say that Rondo wouldn't recognize that and adapt to it?  He's stubborn, but he's also very intelligent.  If he sees that something is working well, I'd say chances are very good that he'd make an effort to fit in, rather than forcing the Celtics back into a stagnant offense.  I don't think he likes losing any more than we do.

Re: Say we do well without Rondo
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2013, 06:18:32 PM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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Say we do go on a run for the rest of the year and make a little noise in the playoffs.

Who's to say that Rondo wouldn't recognize that and adapt to it?  He's stubborn, but he's also very intelligent.  If he sees that something is working well, I'd say chances are very good that he'd make an effort to fit in, rather than forcing the Celtics back into a stagnant offense.  I don't think he likes losing any more than we do.

For the third time...

How is this Rondo's fault and not Doc's?

The pound the ball to the ground offense is all Doc. UGH.

Re: Say we do well without Rondo
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2013, 06:21:42 PM »

Offline Atzar

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Say we do go on a run for the rest of the year and make a little noise in the playoffs.

Who's to say that Rondo wouldn't recognize that and adapt to it?  He's stubborn, but he's also very intelligent.  If he sees that something is working well, I'd say chances are very good that he'd make an effort to fit in, rather than forcing the Celtics back into a stagnant offense.  I don't think he likes losing any more than we do.

For the third time...

How is this Rondo's fault and not Doc's?

The pound the ball to the ground offense is all Doc. UGH.

I missed the part where I blamed anybody for anything.  I'm saying that if the team plays well without Rondo, then I don't see much reason to believe that we'll go back to playing stagnant ball when he gets back.


Re: Say we do well without Rondo
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2013, 06:24:06 PM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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Say we do go on a run for the rest of the year and make a little noise in the playoffs.

Who's to say that Rondo wouldn't recognize that and adapt to it?  He's stubborn, but he's also very intelligent.  If he sees that something is working well, I'd say chances are very good that he'd make an effort to fit in, rather than forcing the Celtics back into a stagnant offense.  I don't think he likes losing any more than we do.

For the third time...

How is this Rondo's fault and not Doc's?

The pound the ball to the ground offense is all Doc. UGH.

I missed the part where I blamed anybody for anything.  I'm saying that if the team plays well without Rondo, then I don't see much reason to believe that we'll go back to playing stagnant ball when he gets back.

Quote
Who's to say that Rondo wouldn't recognize that and adapt to it?  He's stubborn, but he's also very intelligent.

Re: Say we do well without Rondo
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2013, 06:28:57 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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There are going to be a ton of fans that get tricked into thinking more regular season wins = contending.

You say this like you believe the celtics are about to start playing well now. Who's to say we don't continue to play poorly?

I could see this being the type of thing that the players can rally around or whatever. And I can see us winning 2-3 games in a row, and Celticsblog will be overrun with Rondo hate threads.

Re: Say we do well without Rondo
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2013, 06:39:18 PM »

Offline Atzar

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Say we do go on a run for the rest of the year and make a little noise in the playoffs.

Who's to say that Rondo wouldn't recognize that and adapt to it?  He's stubborn, but he's also very intelligent.  If he sees that something is working well, I'd say chances are very good that he'd make an effort to fit in, rather than forcing the Celtics back into a stagnant offense.  I don't think he likes losing any more than we do.

For the third time...

How is this Rondo's fault and not Doc's?

The pound the ball to the ground offense is all Doc. UGH.

I missed the part where I blamed anybody for anything.  I'm saying that if the team plays well without Rondo, then I don't see much reason to believe that we'll go back to playing stagnant ball when he gets back.

Quote
Who's to say that Rondo wouldn't recognize that and adapt to it?  He's stubborn, but he's also very intelligent.

Still not seeing any blame anywhere in there.  Looks to me like I'm saying that, in the event that we play well, Rondo isn't going to try to jerk the train back off of the tracks.

Think what you want, though. 

Re: Say we do well without Rondo
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2013, 06:46:15 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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If the Celtics do well without Rondo, the team should go forward under the assumption that the return of a healthy Rondo and the addition of a quality big via the MLE makes this team a contender next season.

I agree with this.

My biggest Cblog nightmare is the team does well over the next 20 games and we are bombarded with how much better we are without Rondo.  In the long run it is far more likely  that this team is way better off with Rajon Rondo than without him.

It seems like alot of people fear the celtics doing well without rondo. I find this to be slightly amusing.

Please note an important distinction: My nightmare isn't the C's doing well;  My nightmare is the likely dominance of 'we are better without Rondo' threads. 

I'll be very glad if C's do well without Rondo. I won't think they are better off without him.
See, to me this isn't about the simple options of with or without Rondo.  It's with Rondo (now and long term) versus without Rondo (plus what he could bring in a trade). 

Re: Say we do well without Rondo
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2013, 06:49:25 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Or we'll be even better?

It's the same thing that's going on in Chicago right now. They're doing well right now, absolutely doing well, does it spell doom for Derrick Rose? Knowing that Rose would command the ball as well as Rondo does, should they?
We already KNOW how this team does with Rondo.  We are below .500.  The Chicago example is a bit different in that they are performing worse without Rose than with him. 

What if we actually perform better without Rondo?

Since the end of the '07-'08 season (I'm starting after the championship because Rondo didn't have as large a role offensively that year as he has since), Rondo has played in 320 regular season games and 66 playoff games.  I haven't looked up the W-L record in those games, but I know that it's well above .500. 

Yet you are making a long term determination on whether or not this team is better or worse off without Rondo based on 38 games played this season.  That's fairly short-sighted.

Forget the wins and losses and stats. Actually watch the next 38 games and pay attention. That's enough games to see rather you like the way this team plays without rondo or not.
There is a huge difference in how a team plays in a few games here and there missing a major player versus how it plays over a longer stretch of games without said player.  I don't know off the top of my head what is the most consecutive games Rondo has missed.  But teams often rise to the occasion in the short term.

In other words, I think the 38 remaining games will say a lot more about this team without Rondo than the 66 games that have been scattered over several seasons.

Re: Say we do well without Rondo
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2013, 06:51:01 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Say we do go on a run for the rest of the year and make a little noise in the playoffs.

Who's to say that Rondo wouldn't recognize that and adapt to it?  He's stubborn, but he's also very intelligent.  If he sees that something is working well, I'd say chances are very good that he'd make an effort to fit in, rather than forcing the Celtics back into a stagnant offense.  I don't think he likes losing any more than we do.
The problem is that Rondo is a flawed player and there are some issues that aren't on Doc but on him.  Is he going to adapt by getting a jump shot so we're not playing 4 on 5?  Obviously, if he could, he would have done that already.

Re: Say we do well without Rondo
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2013, 06:54:09 PM »

Offline Atzar

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Say we do go on a run for the rest of the year and make a little noise in the playoffs.

Who's to say that Rondo wouldn't recognize that and adapt to it?  He's stubborn, but he's also very intelligent.  If he sees that something is working well, I'd say chances are very good that he'd make an effort to fit in, rather than forcing the Celtics back into a stagnant offense.  I don't think he likes losing any more than we do.
The problem is that Rondo is a flawed player and there are some issues that aren't on Doc but on him.  Is he going to adapt by getting a jump shot so we're not playing 4 on 5?  Obviously, if he could, he would have done that already.

Um, he already is.  He's been shooting jumpshots - and making a solid percentage of them - all year.

Bad example.  If you brought up the free throw issue I would have agreed with you, but Rondo is showing every sign of trying to become a better shooter. 

Re: Say we do well without Rondo
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2013, 06:57:51 PM »

Offline More Banners

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If we do well without Rondo, he's sure to get the Rudy Gay treatment, and soon.

Re: Say we do well without Rondo
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2013, 06:58:51 PM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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Say we do go on a run for the rest of the year and make a little noise in the playoffs.

Who's to say that Rondo wouldn't recognize that and adapt to it?  He's stubborn, but he's also very intelligent.  If he sees that something is working well, I'd say chances are very good that he'd make an effort to fit in, rather than forcing the Celtics back into a stagnant offense.  I don't think he likes losing any more than we do.

For the third time...

How is this Rondo's fault and not Doc's?

The pound the ball to the ground offense is all Doc. UGH.

I missed the part where I blamed anybody for anything.  I'm saying that if the team plays well without Rondo, then I don't see much reason to believe that we'll go back to playing stagnant ball when he gets back.

Quote
Who's to say that Rondo wouldn't recognize that and adapt to it?  He's stubborn, but he's also very intelligent.

Still not seeing any blame anywhere in there.  Looks to me like I'm saying that, in the event that we play well, Rondo isn't going to try to jerk the train back off of the tracks.

Think what you want, though.

In that case, I guess I misunderstood you. I apologize for that.

The emergence of AB has pretty much confirmed that Rondo doesn't care about style, he just wants the win. Whether it be with style like this or with far less style like this.

To me, if and when the team succeeds playing another style, I think it pretty much goes without saying that Rondo will go with it.

Add to that the fact that Rondo's a runner. The pound it to the ground offense just has to be all Doc. I just don't think he's going to revert to it.

People in the "Courtney Lee is unhappy" thread keep implying that Rondo's the one who's favoring this play style. Probably the reason for my paranoia.

Re: Say we do well without Rondo
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2013, 11:30:33 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Say we do go on a run for the rest of the year and make a little noise in the playoffs.

Who's to say that Rondo wouldn't recognize that and adapt to it?  He's stubborn, but he's also very intelligent.  If he sees that something is working well, I'd say chances are very good that he'd make an effort to fit in, rather than forcing the Celtics back into a stagnant offense.  I don't think he likes losing any more than we do.
The problem is that Rondo is a flawed player and there are some issues that aren't on Doc but on him.  Is he going to adapt by getting a jump shot so we're not playing 4 on 5?  Obviously, if he could, he would have done that already.

Um, he already is.  He's been shooting jumpshots - and making a solid percentage of them - all year.

Bad example.  If you brought up the free throw issue I would have agreed with you, but Rondo is showing every sign of trying to become a better shooter.
Rondo may be shooting some wide open jump shots, and hitting a decent percentage given that they are wide open.  But, teams still aren't guarding him out there.  They still leave him to double team and go under every screen.  They still clog up the paint for other players when rondo is on the floor. 

So no, the fact that rondo is hitting some shots here and there does NOT erase the fact that his lack of a good jump shot still hinders the team.

 

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