Author Topic: Report: Lee unhappy in Boston due to Rondo's play style  (Read 9198 times)

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Re: Report: Lee unhappy in Boston due to Rondo's play style
« Reply #75 on: January 29, 2013, 10:02:21 PM »

Offline kgainez

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I think this team has been underachieving for a variety of reasons and Rondo's play and Pierce's play,  are two of them, though, IMHO, they are down on the bottom of the list.

One of the things on the top of the list is the players Danny put together to make up this team. Terry and Barbosa are players that want the ball in their hands and want to score, sometimes to the detriment of a team offense. Now we have Lee and Bass complaining of touches or the offense. We also have a player that left for personal reasons and a big who is useless and another that can never stay healthy.

I think Danny messed up this summer. He never got a decent backup big man worth a [dang]. Several players in the locker room were expecting to continue to play their game, regardless of how the Celtics functioned. Danny must have thought that if KG, PP and RA would sacrifice their games to make a team better than others would too. Obviously he was wrong.

I see a house cleaning in this team's future.

nah I disagree. I think Doc messed up.

Doc has been saying since forever that he wanted to run more and wanted more athleticism because the Big 3 or 4 couldn't close out games by themselves. This is when you have a team who's bench consists of Ryan Hollins, Greg Steimsa, Marquise, Dooling, Peaches, that Sean guy (lol) and Wilcox. Not a bunch of freaks of nature there.

so DA went out and got what Doc wanted. But Doc just assumed he could run and all that with the system he had but that's an untruth. Especially with the players he has.

Like I said. And I will continue to say. This team needed a shake up to get Docs attention. This could be a blessing in disguise because right now Doc is saying all the right things (doesn't mean he will do it).

Take the 2nd unit for example. Best unit we got. Why? They run. They play loose. They have pace. Copy and paste that for all...we win games. We compete. We can *gasp* contend
I think this second unit is rather awful. They have some nice career stats but as a cohesive unit, they suck.

the second unit?
jet/lee/jeff/sully with kg? uhh...that's our best unit, man.

Re: Report: Lee unhappy in Boston due to Rondo's play style
« Reply #76 on: January 29, 2013, 10:04:39 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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I think this team has been underachieving for a variety of reasons and Rondo's play and Pierce's play,  are two of them, though, IMHO, they are down on the bottom of the list.

One of the things on the top of the list is the players Danny put together to make up this team. Terry and Barbosa are players that want the ball in their hands and want to score, sometimes to the detriment of a team offense. Now we have Lee and Bass complaining of touches or the offense. We also have a player that left for personal reasons and a big who is useless and another that can never stay healthy.

I think Danny messed up this summer. He never got a decent backup big man worth a [dang]. Several players in the locker room were expecting to continue to play their game, regardless of how the Celtics functioned. Danny must have thought that if KG, PP and RA would sacrifice their games to make a team better than others would too. Obviously he was wrong.

I see a house cleaning in this team's future.

nah I disagree. I think Doc messed up.

Doc has been saying since forever that he wanted to run more and wanted more athleticism because the Big 3 or 4 couldn't close out games by themselves. This is when you have a team who's bench consists of Ryan Hollins, Greg Steimsa, Marquise, Dooling, Peaches, that Sean guy (lol) and Wilcox. Not a bunch of freaks of nature there.

so DA went out and got what Doc wanted. But Doc just assumed he could run and all that with the system he had but that's an untruth. Especially with the players he has.

Like I said. And I will continue to say. This team needed a shake up to get Docs attention. This could be a blessing in disguise because right now Doc is saying all the right things (doesn't mean he will do it).

Take the 2nd unit for example. Best unit we got. Why? They run. They play loose. They have pace. Copy and paste that for all...we win games. We compete. We can *gasp* contend
I think this second unit is rather awful. They have some nice career stats but as a cohesive unit, they suck.

The 2nd unit has been outplaying the starters for quite a bit now.


I think this team has been underachieving for a variety of reasons and Rondo's play and Pierce's play,  are two of them, though, IMHO, they are down on the bottom of the list.

One of the things on the top of the list is the players Danny put together to make up this team. Terry and Barbosa are players that want the ball in their hands and want to score, sometimes to the detriment of a team offense. Now we have Lee and Bass complaining of touches or the offense. We also have a player that left for personal reasons and a big who is useless and another that can never stay healthy.

I think Danny messed up this summer. He never got a decent backup big man worth a [dang]. Several players in the locker room were expecting to continue to play their game, regardless of how the Celtics functioned. Danny must have thought that if KG, PP and RA would sacrifice their games to make a team better than others would too. Obviously he was wrong.

I see a house cleaning in this team's future.

ORRRRRRRRR, we can try and coax Rondo to stop pounding the ball for 20 seconds of the offense, and move the ball like basketball was intended to be played, and get the most of out this team.

How a team with Terry isn't running pick-and-roll plays with KG constantly is beyond me.
The whole Rondo pounds the ball too much and its his fault is complete hogwash IMO. People have been saying it for 2-3 years now because 2-3 times a game it happens.

But why does it happen? Could the other team's defense have anything to do with it? Could players not moving off the ball have anything to do with it? Could players not running the play right have anything to do with it? Could players not be open have anything to do with it? Or could Rondo seeing certain players looking for a shot that they can't hit or knows they will break the play to play hero ball have anything to do with it?

Of course they do? But people see a few plays a game where rondo is dribbling and its all on Rondo? Right!!

Not saying he doesn't over dribble on occasion or miss the wide open man but he doesn't just pound the ball and ruin the C's offense as much as people say.

Rondo's a [dang] smart basketball player. He knows this team can't succeed with just lazily shooting mid range jumpers, which is what just about the whole roster wants to do. If he holds it, maybe its because he is waiting for a player to get in the post or looking for a cutter going to the basket which this team needs desperately.

I just think this whole "Rondo just pounds the ball" is an easy way to scapegoat Rondo and doesn't look at the big picture of what is really happening on the court.

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever complained about playing with Nash, Kidd, or Paul? The former two widely regarded pass first PGs, the last one also in that category, but who was tasked to take a bigger role scoring wise and stayed there.

I just find it quite curious, that someone like Terry and Lee seem uncomfortable playing with Rondo, a pass first PG, someone who both have mentioned as one of their primordial reasons for wanting to come to Boston and seemingly finding it disappointing.

Without a doubt, the bench group(with Sullinger) has been the better group for several games now. They don't do it all the time but they play with more pace than the starters do and they've been more effective. KG and especially Paul have looked old out there. Paul looks increasingly slow at both ends to be honest lately. I for one don't know how true these complaints even are. The grapevine changes everything. But it will be interesting to see how Terry and Lee play for the rest of the season.
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Re: Report: Lee unhappy in Boston due to Rondo's play style
« Reply #77 on: January 29, 2013, 10:04:48 PM »

Offline Who

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You know what? Lee is a journeyman bench SG or fringe starter at best and has been on 4 teams in 5 years. The last thing he should be doing is complaining about how an offense runs, how many touches he gets or anything else.

He's just gotten to a good team for the first time since his rookie year. And before the season is half over and just after that team's starting PG and All-Star goes down with a season ending injury, he starts complaining?

Ship him out of town along with Bass. I don't need role players complaining about how the team is being run, their playing time or their touches. When the Big Three came together they all sacrificed their touches and shots and the way they were used to things being run in favor of a team concept. Last thing I want while those players are still on the team is role players complaining about stuff those HOFers sacrificed to win a championship.
Lee has not gone out and said this to the media.  Have you (or anyone) heard him say it?  Lowe says he got this out of "back channels".  Lee is entitled to his feelings and opinions and he's allowed to share those opinions with who he is close to.  If that leaks, it leaks, but he's not going out and selfishly complaining about it publicly.  And when we have as much offensive talent as we do and our offense is as inefficient as it is, well there are 2 natural places to blame - the guy designing the offense (Doc) or the guy running the offense (Rondo).

If the 2008 celtics were under .500 at this point in the season, I have a feeling there would have been grumbling.  I think if everything was ticking, Courtney wouldn't be a unhappy at all.  I believe there is reason for EVERYONE on this team to be unhappy with how the offense is performing and because it is performing far lower than what is expected of them.  Where you place your blame... like I said I think it comes down to 2 possible places.

Danny Ainge ??

Re: Report: Lee unhappy in Boston due to Rondo's play style
« Reply #78 on: January 29, 2013, 10:06:50 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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You know what? Lee is a journeyman bench SG or fringe starter at best and has been on 4 teams in 5 years. The last thing he should be doing is complaining about how an offense runs, how many touches he gets or anything else.

He's just gotten to a good team for the first time since his rookie year. And before the season is half over and just after that team's starting PG and All-Star goes down with a season ending injury, he starts complaining?

Ship him out of town along with Bass. I don't need role players complaining about how the team is being run, their playing time or their touches. When the Big Three came together they all sacrificed their touches and shots and the way they were used to things being run in favor of a team concept. Last thing I want while those players are still on the team is role players complaining about stuff those HOFers sacrificed to win a championship.
Lee has not gone out and said this to the media.  Have you (or anyone) heard him say it?  Lowe says he got this out of "back channels".  Lee is entitled to his feelings and opinions and he's allowed to share those opinions with who he is close to.  If that leaks, it leaks, but he's not going out and selfishly complaining about it publicly.  And when we have as much offensive talent as we do and our offense is as inefficient as it is, well there are 2 natural places to blame - the guy designing the offense (Doc) or the guy running the offense (Rondo).

If the 2008 celtics were under .500 at this point in the season, I have a feeling there would have been grumbling.  I think if everything was ticking, Courtney wouldn't be a unhappy at all.  I believe there is reason for EVERYONE on this team to be unhappy with how the offense is performing and because it is performing far lower than what is expected of them.  Where you place your blame... like I said I think it comes down to 2 possible places.

Danny Ainge ??
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Re: Report: Lee unhappy in Boston due to Rondo's play style
« Reply #79 on: January 29, 2013, 10:07:59 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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For the record, if anything I think Lee is more displeased with a system that allows Rondo to pound the ball as much as he does rather than playing with Rondo himself.

Good point. And one that needs to be said and maybe re-stated again in this thread for recognition.
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Re: Report: Lee unhappy in Boston due to Rondo's play style
« Reply #80 on: January 29, 2013, 10:18:41 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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So, as mentioned on the front page, over the last year we've seen the following players have issues with their role:

Ray
Lee
Bass
Barbosa
Darko

Who or what do we blame for that?  Doc?  Rondo?  Losing?  Egos?

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Re: Report: Lee unhappy in Boston due to Rondo's play style
« Reply #81 on: January 29, 2013, 10:19:54 PM »

Offline ssspence

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I think this team has been underachieving for a variety of reasons and Rondo's play and Pierce's play,  are two of them, though, IMHO, they are down on the bottom of the list.

One of the things on the top of the list is the players Danny put together to make up this team. Terry and Barbosa are players that want the ball in their hands and want to score, sometimes to the detriment of a team offense. Now we have Lee and Bass complaining of touches or the offense. We also have a player that left for personal reasons and a big who is useless and another that can never stay healthy.

I think Danny messed up this summer. He never got a decent backup big man worth a [dang]. Several players in the locker room were expecting to continue to play their game, regardless of how the Celtics functioned. Danny must have thought that if KG, PP and RA would sacrifice their games to make a team better than others would too. Obviously he was wrong.

I see a house cleaning in this team's future.

What would you have done differently, and how would you argue it'd have increased the C's chances of competing for a championship in 2013?

Re: Report: Lee unhappy in Boston due to Rondo's play style
« Reply #82 on: January 29, 2013, 10:22:25 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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So, as mentioned on the front page, over the last year we've seen the following players have issues with their role:

Ray
Lee
Bass
Barbosa
Darko

Who or what do we blame for that?  Doc?  Rondo?  Losing?  Egos?

Ray = Cry baby,getting the same shots in Miami

Lee= Journeyman

Bass = The next Mark Blount, how come he was able to get more shots last year?because he didn't have a 20 yr old rookie to blow by him in development

Darko = Darko? really ? ???

Re: Report: Lee unhappy in Boston due to Rondo's play style
« Reply #83 on: January 29, 2013, 10:22:42 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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So, as mentioned on the front page, over the last year we've seen the following players have issues with their role:

Ray
Lee
Bass
Barbosa
Darko

Who or what do we blame for that?  Doc?  Rondo?  Losing?  Egos?

I'd bet if we were winning not only would nobody be complaining, but everybody would be praising Danny for the job he did this summer.

Re: Report: Lee unhappy in Boston due to Rondo's play style
« Reply #84 on: January 29, 2013, 10:28:23 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I think this team has been underachieving for a variety of reasons and Rondo's play and Pierce's play,  are two of them, though, IMHO, they are down on the bottom of the list.

One of the things on the top of the list is the players Danny put together to make up this team. Terry and Barbosa are players that want the ball in their hands and want to score, sometimes to the detriment of a team offense. Now we have Lee and Bass complaining of touches or the offense. We also have a player that left for personal reasons and a big who is useless and another that can never stay healthy.

I think Danny messed up this summer. He never got a decent backup big man worth a [dang]. Several players in the locker room were expecting to continue to play their game, regardless of how the Celtics functioned. Danny must have thought that if KG, PP and RA would sacrifice their games to make a team better than others would too. Obviously he was wrong.

I see a house cleaning in this team's future.

What would you have done differently, and how would you argue it'd have increased the C's chances of competing for a championship in 2013?
Not sure. I would have to think about it. Also, I have the advantage of hindsight to make myself look smart so I am not sure that's fair.

I complained about Danny's past off seasons but had already made comments about how differently I would have done things before the season started. I didn't do that this year.

I will say I had my doubts about Lee before the season. I questioned why so many teams had given up on him in the past. I thought Terry was a good pick up. I hated the Green signing and the Collins signing and was ambivalent on the Wilcox signing.

I did say a few times that I thought Javale McGee might be a guy I would have explored but I don't think Denver was letting that happen.

I also liked the Sully pick and didn't like the Melo pick.
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Re: Report: Lee unhappy in Boston due to Rondo's play style
« Reply #85 on: January 29, 2013, 10:28:34 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Yea!  Alright, awesome, another "bash Rondo" thread.   ::)

There are some seriously sick in the head people around here lately.  I am so thoroughly disgusted, I can't even express it in words allowed on this blog.

Let me get this straight, a journeyman role player is complaining about not getting his touches and is unhappy?  Courtney Lee should keep his [dang] mouth shut (even amongst his inner circle, if it leaked, it's CORTNEY'S fault!) and play his role.  If he still doesn't like it, he can quit.

As much as this may be a dig at Rondo, it's just as much a dig at the coaching staff.  Doc is the one who determines how the offense is run.  Not role players.
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Re: Report: Lee unhappy in Boston due to Rondo's play style
« Reply #86 on: January 29, 2013, 10:29:39 PM »

Offline ssspence

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So, as mentioned on the front page, over the last year we've seen the following players have issues with their role:

Ray
Lee
Bass
Barbosa
Darko

Who or what do we blame for that?  Doc?  Rondo?  Losing?  Egos?

Ray -- Ray's ego.

Lee -- no one. He's at the most competitive position on the team. And he's coming around.

Bass -- his brain. He's not very bright. He's got 18mil guaranteed from the Cs, has regressed in every facet, and isnt bright enough to come up with a better excuse than 'role'.

Barbosa / Darko -- if you don't want to be 12th man, don't sign a vet min deal after every other FA has already been gobbled up to be one. Play overseas, or retire.

Re: Report: Lee unhappy in Boston due to Rondo's play style
« Reply #87 on: January 29, 2013, 10:38:16 PM »

Offline cltc5

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lee will have his chance now

Re: Report: Lee unhappy in Boston due to Rondo's play style
« Reply #88 on: January 29, 2013, 10:41:26 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I think this team has been underachieving for a variety of reasons and Rondo's play and Pierce's play,  are two of them, though, IMHO, they are down on the bottom of the list.

One of the things on the top of the list is the players Danny put together to make up this team. Terry and Barbosa are players that want the ball in their hands and want to score, sometimes to the detriment of a team offense. Now we have Lee and Bass complaining of touches or the offense. We also have a player that left for personal reasons and a big who is useless and another that can never stay healthy.

I think Danny messed up this summer. He never got a decent backup big man worth a [dang]. Several players in the locker room were expecting to continue to play their game, regardless of how the Celtics functioned. Danny must have thought that if KG, PP and RA would sacrifice their games to make a team better than others would too. Obviously he was wrong.

I see a house cleaning in this team's future.

ORRRRRRRRR, we can try and coax Rondo to stop pounding the ball for 20 seconds of the offense, and move the ball like basketball was intended to be played, and get the most of out this team.

How a team with Terry isn't running pick-and-roll plays with KG constantly is beyond me.

  It's worth pointing out that, if you check shot clock usage on 82games, the percentage of our shots that we take in the first 15 seconds of the shot clock is pretty much league average and the percentage of shots we take in the last 4 seconds of the shot clock looks like it's lower than most teams. Either Rondo doesn't pound the ball for 20 seconds very often or he's mastered time travel.

Re: Report: Lee unhappy in Boston due to Rondo's play style
« Reply #89 on: January 29, 2013, 10:41:43 PM »

Offline Banner18now!

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Ok Courtney Lee, your excuse for underacheiving so far was Rondo pounding the ball. Now I guess its put up or shut up time because your excuse is out the window now!

 

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