Author Topic: Rudy Gay traded to raptors  (Read 10104 times)

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Re: Rudy Gay traded to raptors
« Reply #165 on: January 30, 2013, 08:01:53 PM »

Offline mqtcelticsfan

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Dumars nailed this one. They got rid of Prince's bad contract, got rid of the waste of space that is Austin Daye, and got a decent PG with an expiring deal out of it.

Re: Rudy Gay traded to raptors
« Reply #166 on: January 30, 2013, 08:04:07 PM »

Online foulweatherfan

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I honestly think this trade makes the Grizzlies stronger going forward.  Prince is still a plus defender (I think; feel free to beat me about the head with advanced stats if I'm wrong) who can hit shots when needed, Davis gives them a good young 3rd big and a ready-made replacement for Z-Bo down the line, and Daye can carry everybody's gym bags. 

They can hammer teams in the post and let Conley penetrate while Prince hits jumpers and Allen+Prince+Pondexter make a strong 3-man defensive rotation against the other team's best wings.

My biggest problem with the deal is a lot of it just replaces the role players they gave away last week.

Re: Rudy Gay traded to raptors
« Reply #167 on: January 30, 2013, 08:22:02 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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So it's a cap dump for Detroit? Get rid of Prince's three year deal for Calderon's expiring contract?

I wonder who they are planning on making a run at in the off-season. Presumably a wing player. Maybe Iguodala. He seems like a Pistons player.

I see the logic, but I hate the move for Detroit.

Prince was the soul of that team, the professional veteran that the younger players could emulate. He wasn't hindering the development of Drummond or Monroe; quite the contrary, he complemented them quite well. I suspect Dumars had a talk with Prince, and got his blessing to send him to a contender. Memphis gets a solid 3-and-D guy who will knock down occasional jumpers, keep the ball moving on offense, and will harrass opposing 3s on defense (Kevin Durant).

And, much like last year (trading away a 2013 1st rounder to unload Ben Gordon for an expiring deal), Dumars unnecessarily added sweetener to rid the Pistons of a long term contract. Daye is not an A-level prospect, but he has some upside. (In terms of salary filler, I'd have preferred to see Kravstov and a minimum salary rookie like English or Middleton included to make the numbers work.)

Poor Calderon. He crosses the Ambassador Bridge, and lands on another moribund team going through the motions. I hope he gets bought out or flipped for something else.

It's going to be a brutal transitional year for Pistons fans. They still have the amnesty bullet, so they could cut Villanueva, opt to release Stuckey, and go into the next season with tons of cap space to fill around Drummond, Monroe, and Knight. Of course, the last time Dumars had cap space to play with, it was a disaster.
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Re: Rudy Gay traded to raptors
« Reply #168 on: January 30, 2013, 08:35:14 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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In fairness to Memphis... They beat San Antonio and took the Thunder to 7 with Shane Battier taking Rudy Gay's place. Last year they lose to the Clippers with Gay. They replace Gay with Prince and add Davis a nice prospect who has been averaging a double double the last month when he got to play.

Long term its a great trade for Memphis. Short term I don't think they're worse. Just different.

Basically the OKC Harden trade all over again with different names and teams.

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Re: Rudy Gay traded to raptors
« Reply #169 on: January 30, 2013, 08:38:31 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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Quote
This was a good trade. Memphis got slightly worse on a talent level but they saved a boat load of cash. Toronto is doing a great job building a young and competitive team for the first time and Detroit is clearing out for younger players while clearing cap space.

And this isn't really a bad thing. Talent doesn't just win. Scheme and fit are a huge deal. Just ask the Lakers.

I think Memphis will be fine with those two bigs.

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Re: Rudy Gay traded to raptors
« Reply #170 on: January 30, 2013, 08:52:15 PM »

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So it's a cap dump for Detroit? Get rid of Prince's three year deal for Calderon's expiring contract?

I wonder who they are planning on making a run at in the off-season. Presumably a wing player. Maybe Iguodala. He seems like a Pistons player.

I see the logic, but I hate the move for Detroit.

Prince was the soul of that team, the professional veteran that the younger players could emulate. He wasn't hindering the development of Drummond or Monroe; quite the contrary, he complemented them quite well. I suspect Dumars had a talk with Prince, and got his blessing to send him to a contender. Memphis gets a solid 3-and-D guy who will knock down occasional jumpers, keep the ball moving on offense, and will harrass opposing 3s on defense (Kevin Durant).

And, much like last year (trading away a 2013 1st rounder to unload Ben Gordon for an expiring deal), Dumars unnecessarily added sweetener to rid the Pistons of a long term contract. Daye is not an A-level prospect, but he has some upside. (In terms of salary filler, I'd have preferred to see Kravstov and a minimum salary rookie like English or Middleton included to make the numbers work.)

Poor Calderon. He crosses the Ambassador Bridge, and lands on another moribund team going through the motions. I hope he gets bought out or flipped for something else.

It's going to be a brutal transitional year for Pistons fans. They still have the amnesty bullet, so they could cut Villanueva, opt to release Stuckey, and go into the next season with tons of cap space to fill around Drummond, Monroe, and Knight. Of course, the last time Dumars had cap space to play with, it was a disaster.

I don't think Prince is really a "3 and D" type of guy.

Prince shoots a good percentage from three but he is not a prolific shooter from there. He only takes around 15% of his total field goal attempts from three point range for his career. I don't think he has ever been above 20% of his total attempts for a single season.

Spacing wise, I think Memphis would've been better off pursuing more of a pure three point threat. Someone who could take 5-6 three point attempts per game. Really stretch the floor out for Z-Bo and M.Gasol in the post and for TA's slashing to keep TA on the floor for more minutes. Unfortunately, that isn't Tayshaun's game.

Tayshaun Prince is more of an all-round offensive threat. Very good ball-handler. Good passer from all areas of the court. Strong decision maker and good composure on the ball who is capable of initiating an offense as a point forward. Can run off screens. Can shoot from midrange and long two point range. Three point range. Post game. Can dribble drive. Transition offense. Probably the most well-rounded non-star player in the league. Very versatile player.

Prince is really quite a remarkable player. So rare to see a guy who is accomplished in so many different areas offensively.

Re: Rudy Gay traded to raptors
« Reply #171 on: January 30, 2013, 09:28:08 PM »

Online Fan from VT

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I kind of like this deal for Memphis. Gay seems like a better (but even more highly paid) Jeff Green (deceivingly good looking numbers resulting from lots of minutes and average efficiency). As someone said, they replace the role players from the last trade, but also get out of 34 million dollars of obligations at the same time. Daye is a solid-ish bench player. Prince reproduces the Battier role that was so successful a couple years ago. And Davis is a 23 year old 3rd year big putting up an 18+ PER with at 9.7/6.7/.549 (if a Celtic were doing that they'd be untradeable).

Re: Rudy Gay traded to raptors
« Reply #172 on: January 30, 2013, 10:06:33 PM »

Offline Cman

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I think all three teams won on this, for different reasons.
TPs to a lot of you. I have some deeper thoughts and opinions but pretty much all I had to say was covered by the great posts above. Some of the most thoughtful analysis I've seen on celticsblog recently, reminding me of how much of a pleasure it is to come to this site.
Thanks!
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Re: Rudy Gay traded to raptors
« Reply #173 on: January 30, 2013, 10:11:20 PM »

Offline JSD

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Who, what kind of mintues and averages do you see Prince getting in Memphis?

Guys, what player is on the fantasy upswing likley available in free agency? Singler, Prince, Ed Davis, Stuckey, Tony Allen?

Re: Rudy Gay traded to raptors
« Reply #174 on: January 30, 2013, 10:13:00 PM »

Offline JSD

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What about Chris Johnson? Could he start over Prince?

Re: Rudy Gay traded to raptors
« Reply #175 on: January 30, 2013, 10:34:00 PM »

Offline crownontherocks

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Colangelo told NBA TV he's shopping Andrea Bargnani. Has talked with agent about moving him, but won't just trade him to trade him.

Re: Rudy Gay traded to raptors
« Reply #176 on: January 30, 2013, 10:40:10 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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Colangelo told NBA TV he's shopping Andrea Bargnani. Has talked with agent about moving him, but won't just trade him to trade him.

I would trade him just to trade him. He's Bargnani.
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Re: Rudy Gay traded to raptors
« Reply #177 on: January 30, 2013, 10:56:49 PM »

Online Who

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Who, what kind of mintues and averages do you see Prince getting in Memphis?

Guys, what player is on the fantasy upswing likley available in free agency? Singler, Prince, Ed Davis, Stuckey, Tony Allen?
I'd say Tayshaun numbers will pretty much be the same as the have always been before.

I'd say Stuckey is the best bet for a numbers increase. I'd expect Stuckey to start at SG alongside Singler at SF with Prince no longer there. So he should get some more minutes and more time on the ball. More shot attempts. Get back to scoring 15-17ppg instead of the 10-12ppg he is getting currently. The only worry would be Calderon forcing B.Knight into Stuckey's SG minutes. Might be worth waiting a game or two to see how that plays out. 

Singler will probably see 32-34mpg now instead of 26-28mpg so he should get a slight uptick stats wise. Jerebko who hasn't been playing recently should take over the backup SF minutes with Prince + Daye gone.

I'd expect Ed Davis' numbers to go down because he won't get as many minutes in Memphis as he was getting in Toronto while Bargnani was out injured.

That's my best guess ...

Re: Rudy Gay traded to raptors
« Reply #178 on: January 31, 2013, 01:33:13 AM »

Offline JSD

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Who, what kind of mintues and averages do you see Prince getting in Memphis?

Guys, what player is on the fantasy upswing likley available in free agency? Singler, Prince, Ed Davis, Stuckey, Tony Allen?
I'd say Tayshaun numbers will pretty much be the same as the have always been before.

I'd say Stuckey is the best bet for a numbers increase. I'd expect Stuckey to start at SG alongside Singler at SF with Prince no longer there. So he should get some more minutes and more time on the ball. More shot attempts. Get back to scoring 15-17ppg instead of the 10-12ppg he is getting currently. The only worry would be Calderon forcing B.Knight into Stuckey's SG minutes. Might be worth waiting a game or two to see how that plays out. 

Singler will probably see 32-34mpg now instead of 26-28mpg so he should get a slight uptick stats wise. Jerebko who hasn't been playing recently should take over the backup SF minutes with Prince + Daye gone.

I'd expect Ed Davis' numbers to go down because he won't get as many minutes in Memphis as he was getting in Toronto while Bargnani was out injured.

That's my best guess ...

TP. Pretty good one too. Based on the research I've done this is pretty spot on. Fyi - Fox Detriot is reporting that Calderon will start at the 1 and move Knight to the 2. So that will likely hurt Stcukey, like you mentioned.

Re: Rudy Gay traded to raptors
« Reply #179 on: January 31, 2013, 01:52:10 AM »

Offline Galeto

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I don't know what Colangelo's thinking.  His star has really fallen since Phoenix.  It's looking more and more like Nash made both him and D'Antoni.

Toronto has the biggest glut of swingmen in the league.  They have a max-money wing, another wing making double figures, another wing making 6 mil a season, a journey man who has played well and deserves playing time and a rookie who's showed promise but is now faced with limited playing time.  With all that they still don't have a true, major difference maker in the whole group.  Derozan and Gay are similar guys but with the improvements Derozan's made lately with his playmaking, I'd rather have Derozan than Gay.

 

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